Setting multiple keyboard ranges (solved)

[kronos_timmmy]

Hello dear forum-members,
first a few words about me: I‘m a longterm Korg-user which began with a PA2x pro. This one replaced a heavily used Kurzweil K2000 because I‘ve been (still) playing in different bands. It was a challenge to deal with only 4 sounds simultanously but thanks to the songbook-concept it works. Than I‘ve got a Pa4x pro Musikant but switched after a while to a Kronos. The sound quality and -quantity in the PA5x let me lately switch to this one.

Now it‘s a lot of work to recreate the Top40-Sound-Combis as SB-entry. There is one thing where the forum-knowledge could help me:
Is it correct that the split point set in the settings is ‚global‘? If I want to have different key-ranges in different KBD-sets the only way is to modify the values in the ensemble-menu - but then I can only use it for the three right sounds...

It would be a big improvement to get e.g. a checkbox in the ensemble-menu like ‚use global split point (yes/no)‘: If not checked you could set the range for the lower sound, too. (this is at this time only a nice wish...)

Best regards
Tim

[kronos_timmmy]

It‘s a little bit sad - such an old keyboard like the Casio MZ-2000 has the ability to save splitpoints in a registration (and I thought in former days the PA4x was also able....) but a high end keyboard like PA5x is restricted in this way...

[bensel46]

Please see the manual, page 101.

[AntonySharmman]

In a custom KBD set you can easily create 4 split points using 4 factory Sounds and if you're a power user you can create even 24
multi splits with different instruments , creating custom user sounds with 24 OSC so yes Pa5X is a very advanced sound engine
arranger far from anything you know !

[thomasteele]

Antony just a question .. why is it that arrangers have only 3 sound areas upper 1,2,3 and 1 lower ... as even older organs have 4 uppr sound areas upper 1,2,3,4, and 2 lower sound areas just puzzled why cant an arranger have these

[AntonySharmman]

As I wrote , there is no limit for power users but one upper and one lower Sound are enough for a 76/88 keybed for an organ.

Most of you have confused the real meaning of Upper Sounds !
They are just sound timbres for composing a complex sound like symphonic orchestras , all other simple instruments do need only one !

For instance , if you need Upper Piano + Strings + Chorus , end user will use 3 Factory Sounds , Power user can create a single custom
sound with 3 of them (there are 24 OSC) and use 3 similar custom sounds and KBD set will play 12 different instruments or more.

Potentials are unlimited

Fundamental knowledge require Advanced manual reading and studying and then experiment in edits !

[kronos_timmmy]

Thanks all together!
I haven´t seen the global-local option (and have not read the manual at this page...). Now I´m glad...

@Anthony - yeah all the PA-serie-keys are powerful in this way (and the posibility to user-create DNC-sounds...way better than Yamaha with the restrictedYEM...), but if you want to be really powerful just use a Kronos ...

Greetz
Tim

[AntonySharmman]

but if you want to be really powerful just use a Kronos ...

WavesArt develops Korg Kronos EXs sound libraries since 15 years https://wavesart.eu/KronosEXs with the world's best libraries with
unknown features for Korg Store creators close to VST.

But still Pa5X sound engine is far better than Kronos 2 HD that still use outdated Triton Program interface , and only Karma & Combination
features allowed us to create premium libraries with direct access of Karma to HD engine , that's why we do not support poor Nautilus AT.

I have made many topics in the past in forum explaining the huge difference between two sampler engines.

[kronos_timmmy]

Hello Anthony, I know and respect your longtime work, the power of Kronos is not the sample engine - it‘s got eight other sophisticated sound-engines which you can combine in many ways (in programs and man you more in combis). But I don‘t want to begin a new discussions here - I‘ve used a Kronos for 14 years and know the pros and cons and have switched now to a PA5x - I‘ll stay interested and curious...

Regards
Tim

[AntonySharmman]

the power of Kronos is not the sample engine

HD1,pianos & organ engine are sampler based , Montage M is equally good or better in other engines.
The power of Kronos was all engines in one and definitely HD1 sampler engine since Korg store was exclusively based on this.

Concerned to sampler engine where is the main interest of all , Pa5X has no competitor and it was wise from your part to upgrade !

[JagiChan]

As I wrote , there is no limit for power users but one upper and one lower Sound are enough for a 76/88 keybed for an organ.

Most of you have confused the real meaning of Upper Sounds !
They are just sound timbres for composing a complex sound like symphonic orchestras , all other simple instruments do need only one !

For instance , if you need Upper Piano + Strings + Chorus , end user will use 3 Factory Sounds , Power user can create a single custom
sound with 3 of them (there are 24 OSC) and use 3 similar custom sounds and KBD set will play 12 different instruments or more.

Potentials are unlimited

Fundamental knowledge require Advanced manual reading and studying and then experiment in edits !

So from your explanation I understand that Upper 1, Upper 2 etc., are similar to the registrations for sounds. The actual sounds are created by the oscillators and the raw sounds used in them to create the sound.

For example, I could make a new sound called PianoStr => In which one of the oscillator triggers the Piano sound and the 2nd oscillator triggers the String sound. (Of course there will be some filters, effects, etc added to those sounds). But in principle that is one sound that can be assigned to Upper 1.

Is my understanding correct? If that is the case, then the possibilities are infinite; limited only by the imagination of the sound developer.

Would appreciate if you could provide an example on how to create a custom sound and assign it to the Upper 1 or Upper 2 etc., for the benefit of the forum users.

[AntonySharmman]

Is my understanding correct? If that is the case, then the possibilities are infinite; limited only by the imagination of the sound developer.

That's correct

Let's see a brief example of a melodic instrument
The basic timbres are Multisamples (MS) where we have mapped samples on keybed of instrument up to 88 samples (sampled per key).
If you have 8 real stereo velocity layers (8 MS) of a piano you will use only 4 of 24 OSC.

- A single Sound consists of 24 OSC with 2 custom velocity layer which means you can use up to 48 MS per Sound.
- Every of 24 OSC have independent LFO, Filter, ASDR , LFO , AMP , AMS send , parametric EQ velocity and scaling orientation plus upper and lower
limits and it's own mode as legato (2 types supported) , round and others.
- All OSC controllers can be interactive and there is no polyphony loss since only working OSC will be counted and others will be disabled that for
instance do not exist in Kronos 2 and OSC are just muted in Combination if not Karma is involved.
- Therefore theoretically each OSC can host 24 X 2 velocity layers = 48 different instruments.
- If you use 4 of those custom Sounds in KBD Set where you have extra Velocity and notes orientations you can already exceed 160 instruments.

That's the unique power of PaSeries DNC2 Sound engine , Sound creation is indeed unlimited.

[QuiRobinez]

Would appreciate if you could provide an example on how to create a custom sound and assign it to the Upper 1 or Upper 2 etc., for the benefit of the forum users.

A year ago I've created a tutorial for that, in that tutorial I explain how to program Jean Michel Jarre sounds in the synthesizer section of the pa5x.

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[JagiChan]

Would appreciate if you could provide an example on how to create a custom sound and assign it to the Upper 1 or Upper 2 etc., for the benefit of the forum users.

A year ago I've created a tutorial for that, in that tutorial I explain how to program Jean Michel Jarre sounds in the synthesizer section of the pa5x.

How did I miss this tutorial? This is exactly what I was talking about, making new sounds.

[DiegoDiego74]

great Qui and Antony