Chord Sequence Import

[Ron]

Have upgraded to 5X from 4X. Appreciate the chord sequences that have been provided for many factory styles. Also appreciate the many generic CSEQ's.

On the 4X, I could quickly create a CS with BIAB, save as an SMF and import directly into the 4X to create a new CS. However, it seems that now it must be done on the 5X. I can find no reference to importing SMF's to create a chord sequence. Am I correct?

I understand the conversion utility can convert CSEQ's contained in 4X SET files to 5X format but I'm guessing it can't convert SMF's to CSEQ's directly.

Thanks,
Ron

[korgpask]

Hello, in the first Pa5X system this option was and worked correctly. Then KORG threw it away, removed it.
In this system 1.3.1, the chord sequence display is there, but it cannot be saved. I also consider it a bug and a problem.
I am also sending pictures.

[Ron]

Thank you for your detailed comments. Respectfully, I think we are talking about two different things.

I am concerned about not being able to import and export CSequences as SMF's as was possible with the 4X. The choices on the 5X are to play it in live, drive the chords in by MIDI or enter the chords manually. It appears the chord sequence import/export (as SMF) feature has been omitted on the 5X. Would like to see it back.

You are concerned about saving CSequences into the dedicated chord sequence user space in the 5X. This feature seems to work fine on my 5X. It also works if you save the sequence to another style. Not sure what to tell you here.

[korgpask]

Yes, I understand what you are asking. This option was still available in system 1.00, although it did not always work correctly. In new versions of the OS, this feature was removed. I believe in its return.

[siebenhirter]

... I am concerned about not being able to import and export CSequences as SMF's as was possible with the 4X .... it appears the chord sequence import/export (as SMF) feature has been omitted on the 5X ....

Hello Ron,
I think that feature simply is renamed.

There is a manual in German language --> https://www.korg.com/us/support/downloa ... /895/5306/
Page 435 describe how to save progression in a library - it means: what you can do is if you press the top right hand corner of the screen
and select "save chord sequence" with its name to a library or to another location or a different folder with "To" to your selected target.

Also it is not called export/import it is a save of a chord sequence - and maybe its chordinformations are not note-events, but meta-events or
xf-chordnames or whatever - I think it is useable with Pa4x so I do with different data to Pa1000.

There also Chord Sequencer used in video of Korg Pa5X Masterclass use "Save to ......." instead Export
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQJ3lCrvueg&t=3s)

..... just discovered https://www.korg.com/us/support/downloa ... /895/5309/
--> also Pa5X_User_Manual_v131_E.pdf for Version 131 (English) will show on page 952 - Recording the Chord Sequences:
▪ Save to a different location
If you want to save to a different folder, touch the To (target location) button in the Save Chord Sequence dialog,
and open the Save To window.

PS: As mentioned in my posting (Pa1000 - Saving chords in Songbook, Style, and Library ) I am interested to get some Pa5x progressions - is there anybody to get any please?

[AntonySharmman]

Note that in Pa5X , created chord sequencer will be embedded in STG file when saved.
If this STG file will be transferred to any external media , browsing and playing it with
Pa5X chord sequencer will be there AFAIK.

[Ron]

Siebenhirter and Anthony -- Thank you for your posts.

So I am aware that I can export chord sequences created on the 5X. However, the file format (CSC) is not readable by anything I am familiar with.

I've also tried exporting a style as a SMF thinking the chord sequence might be included but I'm don't see it. I do see a Type 0 SMF with markers just as we've seen in the past. The various style elements are shown (as in the past) and the chords for the intros and endings are shown which might be new. I didn't check to see if styles exported as SMF's on the 4X had intro and ending chords shown.

And while the style files (STG) may have the chord sequence imbedded, I still cannot read them with anything I'm familiar with.

My conclusion is that the 5X does not allow the import/export of chord sequences as SMF's to/from user styles or songbook entries. This was a feature of the 4X that I used frequently and would like to see implemented on the 5X.

Please respond if you think I am mistaken on any of this.

Ron

PS: Siebenhirter - I am happy to send you some chord sequences from the 5x. They will be CSC files. Give me some idea of what you want.

[siebenhirter]

.. the file format (CSC) is not readable by anything I am familiar with. ... I do see a Type 0 SMF with markers just as we've seen in the past. ... I still cannot read them with anything I'm familiar with...... conclusion is that the 5X does not allow the import/export of chord sequences as SMF's....

Hello Ron,
Thanks for your post.

The file formats of the exported chord progressions are probably unreadable with any of the known programs because the chord progressions aren't displayed as MIDI notes; they're either metadata or XF chords. The markers are an indication of this.

I've recently spent some time familiarizing myself with the different CS file types for the Pa1000 and can use the file types listed above in the CS, as well as data from the Yamaha's ChordLooper (Genos, Tyros) or MIDI progressions from the internet.

The Pa4x probably has the same internal CS software as the Pa1000, where the <Export> function sometimes transfers incorrect parameters by converting the different file types into MIDI note events, but these can be corrected with PC software.
*
5X certainly allows the import/export of chord progressions as SMFs, I'm convinced of that.
Note events aren't displayed because no note events are stored - but chord informations mostly are no note-events.

Exporting the chord progressions from the Pa5x shouldn't have caused you any problems. According to the Pa5x manual, it allows both import (p. 209 Choosing CS from Library) and export (p. 862: Save CS to dedicated library..... select "Drive" instead of "User" .... touch the To target location button ... where you want to save the new Chord Sequence).
*
I'll send you my email address as a PM if you want to send me attachments, that are a bit cumbersome to handle with posts.

For now, thank you very much for your willingness to support me.

[siebenhirter]

..... in the first Pa5X system this option was and worked correctly. Then KORG threw it away, removed it.
In this system 1.3.1, the chord sequence display is there, but it cannot be saved. I also consider it a bug and a problem.

I think you are in SONGPLAY-mode and want to import chord sequences into a MIDI-file; maybe importing chord sequences are meant for styles only in STYLEPLAY mode?

[siebenhirter]

... that the 5X does not allow the import/export of chord sequences as SMF's to/from user styles ..

Hello Ron,
with last posting I forget to ask you, why you concluse Pa5x will not allow exporting CS from styles, because in case you select a style with its CS, it immediately is memorized internal. To save that CS in a User library or using smf-/export, choosing group Drives with an USB-stick seems to be a viable solution.

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To understand you, what you liked to see in a Style, I did same as you and made a style to a SMF. But it makes no sense to use the Exporting to see what CS is saved in a style - there nothing is to see relevant for CS. It is better to run recording a style with its saved CS.

The chords of various style elements and the chords for the intros and endings that are displayed with a PC-sequencer are meaningless as CS, because they are splits across multiple tracks (bass, accompaniment) and the result of chord recognition and transposed element sequences. However, the CS you're looking for aren't note events, but metadata (chord names as text), which are transmitted as chord info with a timestamp at the exact moment for chord recognition.

As an example, the markers (chord names Metadata) of my SMF with a timestamp and Measure:Beat:Tick. The CS starting at 2:01 is recognizable as a 16-bar sequence because it repeats looping from 18:01.
*
I believe that the Pa5x also accepts note events from SMFs for recall in its ChordSequencer. However, if the Pa5x doesn't accept the note events as SMFs from BiaB as recallable data, an SMF edited with markers or a tool that allows for just as convenient editing of chord information would also be sufficient for creating a CS. Therefore, I am curious to know in which file format Pa5x actually saves CS in Libraries.

[Ron]

Siebenhirter - once again thank you for your response.

I am able to manipulate the chord sequence files (CSC's) of the 5X just as any PC file. I can copy them, move them from style to songbook and to external media - no issues.

4X CHSEQ's could be created in several ways. Also, they could be copied from style to style or style to songbook but there was no "library" of user styles and there was no way to edit. I think Korg recognized this issue and created the Import/export CHSEQ's as SMF's Utility as means to edit. Of course, this utility could also be used to bring in a CHSEQ as I liked to do.

The 5X is similar but now the native CHSEQ files (CSC's) are available to the user. These are the files that can be copied form style to style or style to songbook. User CHSEQ's can now be saved as CSC's in a User CHSEQ directory. In addition, the 5X has an onboard CHSEQ editor that can be used to create a CHSEQ from scratch or change an existing CHSEQ. I think Korg decided the CHSEQ editor made the import/export utility of the 4X unnecessary on the 5X.

Going forward, I will probably create complete CHSEQ's on the 5X as follows:

1. Create a chord track in BIAB. (Very fast and easy - especially with complex chords.)
2. Export the track from BIAB to Cakewalk as a SMF
3. Use Cakewalk to "play" the style on the 5X while recording the chord sequence
4. Editing on the 5X.

In the future I would like to see an Event Sequence added. I envision a track (EVSEQ?) similar to a CHSEQ that contains sound changes, variation changes, fills, etc. I believe this would really separate the 5X from the competition. Imagine both hands free to play while chords, fills, variation changes, etc. are all done automatically as the style plays.

This is possible now by adding an event track to a SMF (with or without a chord track). The Articulation Map feature in Cakewalk makes this easy once you are set up. If you use the SMF to "play" the style, the events will occur automatically. Imagine how much easier it would be if this capability was on board the 5X.

Ron

[smstome]

3. Use Cakewalk to "play" the style on the 5X while recording the chord sequence

This step won't be possible right?.

[Ron]

Yes, it is possible. I've done it many times on both the 4X and now the 5X. I know others have done this as well. There should be some threads in the 4X forum.

I usually create the desired chord sequence in BIAB and then export the chord sequence as a SMF. The SMF will contain only one track with the chords as note events. I then load the file into Cakewalk, set the output channel of the chord track to match the chord input channel on the 5X. I use Channel 3. MIDI settings as appropriate in both Cakewalk and on the 5X. Select the 5X style and set it to record a chord sequence. "Play" the style by starting the MIDI file in Cakewalk. The style will play as normal but the chords will change according to the MIDI file in Cakewalk. When the MIDI file is done playing, stop the 5X and save the CHSEQ.

BIAB provides a very fast and easy way to create a chord sequence, especially if you are entering complex chords. It also handles push beats quite well. However, the MIDI file with the chord track does not have to be created using BIAB. There are also chord tables that can be used as an input source or chords can be entered manually as individual notes in which case it is probably easier to use the 5X editor.

[siebenhirter]

....I am able to manipulate the chord sequence files (CSC's) of the 5X just as any PC file. I can copy them, move them from style to songbook and to external media - no issues. ..... I think Korg decided the CHSEQ editor made the import/export utility of the 4X unnecessary on the 5X. ......In the future I would like to see an Event Sequence added. ...

Hello Ron,
I only have a superficial knowledge of the Pa5x and therefore can't give you any advice on your workflow.

With the Pa4x and its Pa1000-like OS, things are a little different. With these instruments, a style can be recorded and saved with Quick Edit, including changing style elements, saved chord progressions, and changing keyboard sets. This leaves you with both hands free to play while playing, while no event sequencer is required for intentional chords, fills, performance, and style changes.

You can send me all the CS of your directories and styles. As suspected, in addition to Yamaha chord sequences, Pa5x chord sequences can also be converted for import and use in Pa4x/1000. I tried it with the first CSC file I found and had no problems converting, even importing and playing with the chord progression. I noticed that the first measure is kept free for various settings - similar to the ChordLooper. As soon as the progression is not prepared for an archive, it's important to note that the progression is always imported with "From Measure: 2," ensuring that it's correctly stored in the internal memory at least once, and can then be saved in styles and songbook entries.

I've been thinking about describing a workflow for the next step—exporting to an archive—for some time now, because the Pa1000 writes markers (second-to-last chord, end of file) to the SMF when converting metadata into MIDI events, which cause synchronization errors if the SMFs aren't post-processed before the next import.

Since this workflow should accommodate a wide variety of chord data types, it's naturally quite time-consuming. Ultimately, a chord progression that can be edited, created, and modified in PC software—such as Cakewalk—should also be archived in such a way that it can be easily imported, without having to first consider which measure the SMF should be imported from, or whether anything else needs to be considered.

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[siebenhirter]

..... Use Cakewalk to "play" the style on the 5X while recording the chord sequence ...This step won't be possible right?....

Hello,
sorry for my comment, but have seen your question and as just I am online:

Pa5x-Settings > Menu > MIDI > MIDI IN Control page can be used to receive notes for the chord recognition.
There are two chord channels (chord1, chord1) and it is important to enable one of them with that channel cakewalk is sending chords.