Yamaha New Synth with Alien Technology

aron · Post by **aron** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:56 pm

I bet the price is pretty darn close to exactly the price of the Kronos. This seems like direct competitor to the Kronos with with SSS and the live sets etc...

The fact that they list premium for the synthesizer action means (to me) it will not be low cost.

I'm thinking ~$2500 for the 61 note version.

If they bring it in at $2000 it would be amazing but I doubt it.

EDIT: I'm sorry, when did the kronos 61 start selling at $2999???? (Discounted. Was that always the price???)

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:47 pm

EvilDragon wrote:This might be a good thing for Yammie, after all. But shame they missed LEDs on faders...

Scratch that, they DID put LEDs on sliders as well. Pretty great - this is what Korg removed on Kronos vs OASYS, and it's making a comeback at other manufacturers (Kurzweil Forte also has those).

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:18 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:This might be a good thing for Yammie, after all. But shame they missed LEDs on faders...
Scratch that, they DID put LEDs on sliders as well. Pretty great - this is what Korg removed on Kronos vs OASYS, and it's making a comeback at other manufacturers (Kurzweil Forte also has those).

This is how it should be done... A lesson Yamaha seems to have learned.. I hope more instruments will follow in the future.. Because not having this will from now on allways be a disspointment..

DmitryKo · Post by **DmitryKo** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:55 pm

Two official 30-second teaser videos showcasing the sounds:

FM-X pad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhPluqywBTU
EDM demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mcr84bE95E

Images:
http://imgur.com/a/vyOnH

It looks like Montage is not making much use of W5/EX5/Motif/ES/XS/MOX/XF/MOXF legacy - the control button layot and the touchscreen GUI are very different, not to mention LED strip indicators across control knobs and sliders with LED-lit select/mute buttons, just like on the Korg OASYS keyboard - but with much welcome addition of endless rotary encoders as control knobs!

There are no bank/patch select buttons anymore - the LED-lit control buttons to the right of the display are:
Part Select 1/9 2/10 3/11 etc.,
Motion Seq Select 1-8
Arp Select 1-4
etc.

I'd say the touchscreen GUI looks quite similar in concept to the Kronos/OASYS - the patch select screen essentially has the same layot.

So it's only natural it has a new name, because it's not really a Motif anymore (besides being backward-compatible with Motif XF/MOXF voice data).

As for it being a kind of SY99 on steroids, actually I do like how the SY99 sounds:

SY99 Demo Song by Chick Corea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcWZDTzvnVg
- a sequenced version of "99 Flavours" from "Beneath the Mask" album

SY99 demo by Katsunori Ujiie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csHut1_F4eI

With right programming, 8-operator FM-X engine would function as a capable 8-oscillator analog synthesizer, and would allow very expressive "real-world" sounds as well - I find the SY99 patch "FM Jazz Guitar" very convicing in terms of realtime keyboard control over sound expression (scroll to 14m 20s in the video above), though oviously not as good sonically as VL synthesis in the EX5 or VL1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYaj74agaIo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWxCrz3vmQ

PS. Looks like Ujiie-san really saw it coming (an AWM/AN/FM hybrid synth):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM6Qkf9js9M

padking · Post by **padking** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:04 am

Bought my Kronos ( 1st edition 61) for 2999 $
cdn in 2011.
Sold it in 2013.

Padking

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:47 am

EvilDragon wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:This might be a good thing for Yammie, after all. But shame they missed LEDs on faders...
Scratch that, they DID put LEDs on sliders as well. Pretty great - this is what Korg removed on Kronos vs OASYS, and it's making a comeback at other manufacturers (Kurzweil Forte also has those).

This is how it should be done... A lesson Yamaha seems to have learned.. I hope more instruments will follow in the future.. Because not having this will from now on allways be a disspointment..

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:29 am

The Montage looks pretty interesting. I wonder if the motion sequences can be used with an external synth.

Would have been nice if there was a basic onboard sequencer but can live without it.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:46 am

Bald Eagle wrote:The Montage looks pretty interesting. I wonder if the motion sequences can be used with an external synth.

Would have been nice if there was a basic onboard sequencer but can live without it.

Again, not making the shortlist that comes with the description does not mean it will not be onboard...

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:47 pm

Thank You God for no Sequencer. Last time i used one on a keyboard was in 1996.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:42 pm

BasariStudios wrote:Thank You God for no Sequencer. Last time i used one on a keyboard was in 1996.

But then you arent going to buy a keyboard anyway?

There are people that need sequencers on stage and dont want to depend on a pc... And guess what, thats probably the majorrity of Motif owners...

And thats why i am convinced there will be a build in sequencer.. Just for replaying stuff and making basic recordings..

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:17 pm

Re LEDs on the Sliders (missing on Kronos) - remember - Kronos is an 8-and-a-half-grand workstation (the OASYS) sold for under 4 grand. So I've two thoughts on that - 1) us OASYS owners supported the emergence of your under-4 grand Kronos so there'll be no sympathy from us

2) what Kronos is lacking in those little departments it more than makes up for in all of the additions that extend Kornos sonically beyond OASYS

@DmitryKo: You can't compare the SY99 sound to the VL1 or EX5. I own them all, programm them all deeply, and find them all exquisite in their own way.

What makes the SY99 special for me:

1) I Auditioned all 15,000 programs available for the SY99 in the '90s and selected the best 750 for my work; with the best 120 of those onboard my SY99 and SY77. In other words, onboard are, for me, the best programs from hundreds if not thousands of programmers globally and over a decade. And I can tell you, both of instruments sound nothing short of stunning - because at their best, they are so strong.

2) Realtime Convolution and Modulation (RCM) synthesis is something very special, and extends FM synthesis into new sonic territory not bettered to this day. Even MOD-7 cannot match it (because MOD-7 does not have looped Envelopes). Indeed, even FM-X will not match this because it appears that RCM us not included (a pity).

Overall, the SY77 and SY99, at their best, have not been superseded with regard to FM synthesis. They require time, persistence and understanding, but once committed to, they continue to deliver at the extreme end of contemporary synthesis.

Have to say - Montage looks stunning visually and very exciting sonically and performance wise. It's NOT going to be cheap, however (surely well in the region of $3000 for the 61 note version).

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:37 pm

Bachus wrote:
BasariStudios wrote:Thank You God for no Sequencer. Last time i used one on a keyboard was in 1996.
But then you arent going to buy a keyboard anyway? .

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:20 pm

BasariStudios wrote:Thank You God for no Sequencer. Last time i used one on a keyboard was in 1996.

It actually does have a (motion) sequencer.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:09 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
BasariStudios wrote:Thank You God for no Sequencer. Last time i used one on a keyboard was in 1996.
It actually does have a (motion) sequencer.

That's gotta be something cool.

DmitryKo · Post by **DmitryKo** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:55 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:@DmitryKo: You can't compare the SY99 sound to the VL1 or EX5. I own them all, programm them all deeply, and find them all exquisite in their own way.

Sure I can, as long as my hearing isn't totally lost.

2) Realtime Convolution and Modulation (RCM) synthesis is something very special, and extends FM synthesis into new sonic territory not bettered to this day.

We don't know the exact features of the FM-X engine yet.

FM-X looks like the latest incarnation of Yamaha's spectral modeling technology, first presented as SCM (Spectral Component Modeling) on the CP series. As as I said in the reface thread, Stanford's CCRMA defines spectral modeling as methods of shaping sound perception - using sine waves, noise, and transient components derived with STFT (Short-Time Fourier Transfer) of the original sound, and by this definition formant synthesis (speech vocoder), additive syntheis, FM syntheis, and SCM synthesis all fall into the "spectral modeling" category.
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pdf/SMS.pdf#page=25

8-operator FM/formant synthesis is the Yamaha FS1R:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVgo-FBihU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BOhUozjfTM