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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:42 pm
by GregC
madbeatzyo111 wrote:
GregC wrote: lets say the number is 20. that is a defect rate of .4% . Not 4%, 4/10 of 1%.

All co's have a defect rate in their product. I worked for Sony for 9 years so I have a fair idea about defect rates.
True, 0.4% would not be bad...if that were actually the number. Realistically it's too early to say at this point as there's too few units out there in the wild. And the fact is we'll never know unless we work for Korg QC division.

What bothers me about the keybed defect is that I've read here and in the SV-1 forum that keybeds that were initially good became bad after a while. I would much rather detect it early and be able replace it or get it fixed under warranty.
"A casual poster really does not have access to all the pertinent facts. Thus
over speculating and exaggerating is not useful."

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:16 am
by madbeatzyo111
BTW, Dan is posting on the JP80 vs Kronos thread, so hopefully he'll duck in here sometime soon.

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:30 am
by Korgstream
GregC wrote: you should know, there are no sure things. You can buy a new car and it may have defects. 
You are not right.  Each new car is inspected at the dealer, so for many many years, I have not bought even a single defective car. Quality control is poor in the Korg. It is true that you do not want to see.
GregC wrote: If you expect everything to be perfect with everyone, you should cancel.
I expect to buy quality product for 3700 Euro which is made in Japan. Which is made by the company which has a long history. If I buy a Chinese junk for 2 euro, I do not expect anything. You are right.
GregC wrote: And you can't expect Korg to address every post, to your satisfaction.
I do not expect a personal answer from Korg. You did not read carefully. I do not UNDERSTAND why Korg did not respond. Korg is now losing money and reputation. For business this is stupid. And maybe they do not understand this. That's what I meant. 
GregC wrote: There are about 1500-2000 Kronos in the marketplace, from my rough estimates. Obviously, a large % of owners are happy. 
Where did you get information that most users are happy? If you can not prove it then it looks like the speculation and wishful thinking instead real.
GregC wrote: As we all know, Korg is a responsible company and they provide a warranty . Many of us have been Korg customers for 10 or more years. 
.
No need to generalize.
I also bought a lot of years Korg products. But now I see that the Korg quality control is BAD. And it is irresponsible.
And I saying these unpleasant words to the Korg as an old good friend. This will benefit them. And you, Greg, instead of constructive criticism, saying that everything is great, everyone is happy and sometimes has isolated cases and it is not a system mistake. With these pleasure words, you reassure the Korg managers, but this is the way to mistakes. This is very bad for business. Twenty cases of defect keyboards described in this forum is enough to declare an emergency meeting in the office of Korg in Tokyo.
These twenty dissatisfied customers can cause great damage to the business. The world is global. The economy is in crisis. Korg should be very sensitive to such cases. Complacency has destroyed many businesses. Nothing new.
I do not expect a personal response from them. But it is very important that they have made a critical analysis of problems with quality control. If they do it right now, it's good. If not, then too bad.

GregC wrote: It is not useful to over speculate or start making all kinds of assumptions about a product..
I do not see any speculation. 
There are facts:
1. Some real buyers Kronos and SV1 has a  keyboards with the same defects.
2. There are potential buyers who have made a prepayment and waiting for Kronos. Like me, for example.
3. There is no clear position from Korg about these defects.
4. I will cancel the order( as someone has done in this forum) since I am not shure that a problem with the keyboard does not appear after a certain time after purchase.


Thanks to all who reported the problem. It was very helpful.

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:33 am
by Korgstream
GregC wrote:
madbeatzyo111 wrote:
GregC wrote: lets say the number is 20. that is a defect rate of .4% . Not 4%, 4/10 of 1%.

All co's have a defect rate in their product. I worked for Sony for 9 years so I have a fair idea about defect rates.
True, 0.4% would not be bad...if that were actually the number. Realistically it's too early to say at this point as there's too few units out there in the wild. And the fact is we'll never know unless we work for Korg QC division.

What bothers me about the keybed defect is that I've read here and in the SV-1 forum that keybeds that were initially good became bad after a while. I would much rather detect it early and be able replace it or get it fixed under warranty.
"A casual poster really does not have access to all the pertinent facts. Thus
over speculating and exaggerating is not useful."


"There's none so deaf as those who will not hear"

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:52 am
by kron
Further Update:
I have got a confirmation that the defect has been registered with KORG. Their normal lead times are 48 hours. I have specified a deadline of 48 hours (ends Monday noon) for KORG to revert on any firmware update etc, if that fixes the problem (less likely IMO), or the K88 goes back for a refund. I will not go the replacement route given this problem is no associated with any specific range of serial numbers and spans all across.

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:14 am
by Rookwood
I have been contacted by Korg and will be shipping mine back to them on Monday so that their engineering team can look at it, if necessary.

My dealer, the West Coast Sales Manager, Tech Support and the Kronos Product Manager have all been very responsive to my calls and emails this week and I appreciate it.

I'm disappointed that it'll be out for awhile, but I've got too many projects to finish and more gear incoming to keep me busy.
kron wrote:Further Update:
I have got a confirmation that the defect has been registered with KORG. Their normal lead times are 48 hours. I have specified a deadline of 48 hours (ends Monday noon) for KORG to revert on any firmware update etc, if that fixes the problem (less likely IMO), or the K88 goes back for a refund. I will not go the replacement route given this problem is no associated with any specific range of serial numbers and spans all across.

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:39 pm
by GregC
Last edited by Korgstream on 01 Oct 2011 11:00; edited 4 times in total

4. I will cancel the order( as someone has done in this forum) since I am not shure that a problem with the keyboard does not appear after a certain time after purchase.


Thanks to all who reported the problem. It was very helpful.[/quote]
=====================================
I agree that you should cancel your order.

Maybe we can have a glass of wine 1 day and talk this over.

BTW, I have a 2010 Honda CRv, bought new. Yesterday, I got a recall notice due to a defect in the transmission.

Peace

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:45 pm
by runningman67
I am not canceling my order. I've had t3's throughout to triton studio and my Kronos 73 is due in a week or two. Although I do have concerns, I'm keeping the faith.
There's no other keyboard out there that I want more. It's going to give me everything I need to move my projects forward.

Fingers crossed I'm not in the small percentage getting problems.
Like I said, I'm keeping the faith.

Good luck and good health to all .

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:39 pm
by Korgstream
GregC wrote:Maybe we can have a glass of wine 1 day and talk this over.
Peace
Greg, please, do not drink too much. Otherwise no one will sing hymns to Korg. :wink:
Peace of wine and wine of peace.

Keybed issue Test Case - all Kronos users invited

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:24 pm
by kron
To those who have experienced the keybed mute issue and those who are willing to try out otherwise:


I have uploaded a PCG and SNG file (and you get 2 free Piano program edits - A 000, 002 as well :-)) here:

PCG file:
https://rapidshare.com/files/2578453241 ... .PCG?bin=1
SNG File:
https://rapidshare.com/files/2350388641 ... .SNG?bin=1

On my kronos if I run this song, the mute is heard in bars 1, 2, 6, 8, 13 and 14. If you load these into your Kronos and run the song to see if you can reproduce the issue, it will help us isolate the problem and KORG gets a FREE test case to reproduce the issue! We know that they are watching this thread!! Any further analysis of MIDI dump is also welcome.

If some of you affected users record similar issue to your Kronos sequencer and share the PCG and SNG, I am happy to run it on my K88 and post the results..

Please post your findings...

Re: Keybed issue Test Case - all Kronos users invited

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:34 pm
by kron
kron wrote:and you get 2 free Piano program edits - A 000, 002 as well :-)
No high hopes, I spent less than 3 mins each just to get the programs up and running near to my listening environment (Genelec 8030 in a acoustically bad room!), just cleared some mud and edited some dynamics.. that's it really

Kronos keyboard issues

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:23 pm
by mookie
I'm new to this thread but have been following it. I too have keyboard issues with my 88. First it was only with EP sounds and only on one note,D4. Now it's on piano sounds but only on E4 so my concern is is this going to spread around the keyboard. My serial number is low,356. I have contacted Korg Canada and they have sent my issues to the manufactor. I have two weeks left to return it for a full refund and have asked Korg to respond to me before that time. I will keep it if I feel a fix is coming. That's my rant.

Re: Kronos keyboard issues

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:07 pm
by Korgstream
mookie wrote:I'm new to this thread but have been following it. I too have keyboard issues with my 88. First it was only with EP sounds and only on one note,D4. Now it's on piano sounds but only on E4 so my concern is is this going to spread around the keyboard. My serial number is low,356. I have contacted Korg Canada and they have sent my issues to the manufactor. I have two weeks left to return it for a full refund and have asked Korg to respond to me before that time. I will keep it if I feel a fix is coming. That's my rant.
mookie, please, inform us when you will receive answer from Korg.

My key failures

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:31 pm
by outjet
Adding my new board to the mix. Just received my Kronos 88 from the dealer 3 days ago, and immediately noticed there was something amiss.

Here's a video with my key drops.

http://4g.outjet.com/kronoskeyfail.html

This is for a Kronos 88 - I've added my info to the 'fault analysis' thread also.

Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:12 pm
by dregsor
Same issue I'm having with my 73 along with several other ones. I'm returning the 73 tomorrow and putting together a post with all the details.
I'll also put the relevant info in the fault analysis thread later today.

Nice video BTW!