Roland and Yamaha are on notice!!! after Namm 2013

[billysynth]

Well I don't get it...how can you load all these soft synths on a small ipad and have something as powerful as the Kronos and only have 9 engines.

With Kronos' motherboard and Ram it should be able to handle 109 engines!!!

Korg should include all their software: iElectribe, iKassosilator, iElectribe Goriallz, ....and where the hell is the brass/reed EXi??? for the Kronos.

We want it now!!!

Vote now...no new engines no new Kronos...hahaaaa

Let them all burn in workstation hell!!

Billy

[X-Trade]

Well I don't get it...how can you load all these soft synths on a small ipad and have something as powerful as the Kronos and only have 9 engines.

With Kronos' motherboard and Ram it should be able to handle 109 engines!!!

Korg should include all their software: iElectribe, iKassosilator, iElectribe Goriallz, ....and where the hell is the brass/reed EXi??? for the Kronos.

We want it now!!!

Vote now...no new engines no new Kronos...hahaaaa

Let them all burn in workstation hell!!

Billy

Number of engines has nothing to do with the power of the hardware. If you aren't using the engines in a track/program/combi then they aren't using up processing power. However they do increase the complexity of the code.

Using Gadget, the power and depth of the little instruments is nowhere near those of the Kronos engines. In fact, pretty much everything you can do in Gadget you can already do on the Kronos. Adding more engines would just add more pointless overlap of features/functionality.

However, the little Gadget synths are aimed at a hardware feel and ease of use. Each instrument there is highly specialised, which lends itself towards being highly intuitive for certain types of sounds and workflows. This kind of interface is not in the Kronos. IMHO such an interface would merely limit possibilities.

You can always 'build' small template instruments by setting up routings etc and smartly assigning controls to Tone Adjust. I might actually produce a pack of these in the near future..


As for this topic in general.. It looks to me like Yamaha and Roland don't feel threatened or don't care about the Kronos. Then again Korg doesn't seem to be putting much more into the high end workstation market either. Perhaps it's just not as profitiable as it once was.

I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. I like my all-in-one-box Kronos hardware workstation, but I think we'll be seeing more specialist synths and less workstations.. a dramatic shift from what the market was like just a few years ago.
The computer is killing the need for hardware production stations. I don't actually like this but it seems to be the way it is..

[splinters]

You have to ask if Korg need to make a replacement to the Kronos and, if any manufacturer wants to go up against them in this market. I have logic on a Macbook after years of owning workstations and, in the studio, they really are a dying breed.
I just bought one because it replaces keyboards, pianos, synths, mixers, usb audio interfaces etc.
i have to say that in the app market, Korg seem to have nailed it. Roland have next to nothing and nothing from Yamaha has impressed me.

[chilly7]

Well I don't get it...how can you load all these soft synths on a small ipad and have something as powerful as the Kronos and only have 9 engines.

With Kronos' motherboard and Ram it should be able to handle 109 engines!!!

Korg should include all their software: iElectribe, iKassosilator, iElectribe Goriallz, ....and where the hell is the brass/reed EXi??? for the Kronos.

We want it now!!!

Vote now...no new engines no new Kronos...hahaaaa

Let them all burn in workstation hell!!

Billy

Well actualy the iPad Air can be more powerful then Kronos CPU vise and memory wise it can go up to 128gb
and i am just tolking about device which u can hanld in ur hands, and i am not even speaking about real heavy duty computing tasks like new Mac Pro....

[xp50player]

Billy [/quote]
Well actualy the iPad Air can be more powerful then Kronos CPU vise and memory wise it can go up to 128gb
and i am just tolking about device which u can hanld in ur hands, and i am not even speaking about real heavy duty computing tasks like new Mac Pro....[/quote]

the ipad air still only has 1gb RAM, not enough to preload the Kronos sample libraries.

[Timo]

Well actualy the iPad Air can be more powerful then Kronos CPU vise and memory wise it can go up to 128gb
and i am just tolking about device which u can hanld in ur hands, and i am not even speaking about real heavy duty computing tasks like new Mac Pro....

RAM wise, the latest iPads have only 1GB; iPad 2 has 512MB; iPad had 1 just 256MB.

Storage is up to 128GB with the latest iPad (64GB for earlier ones), but much of this will be taken up by any apps you install, music, vids, games, etc. and the OS itself. I've easily filled my 64GB iPad2.

You cannot compare an iPad to a keyboard workstation or a DAW, many of the features have been stripped out and minimalised and the workflow is clumsy (personally). Furthermore it's all proprietary stuff. You can't use third-party plugins, etc.

Furthermore I'm damned if I'm going to keep upgrading to "the latest iPad" every year just to keep up with specs and iOS software.

[Kevin Nolan]

Billy - calm down!!

The Gadget engines are each a tiny percentage of the capability of the Kronos engines. If you own a Kronos, you still own the most sophisticated workstation on the market (and it will work long after Apple have stopped supporting iOS on the iPad AIR and Krog have long since abandoned Gadget).

Kronos is amazing, and still outperforms the competition multiple times over. For that reason alone once should forgive Korg for not updating the Kronos - there' not competition. And - what's on the Kronos is awesome - so get using it !! Kronos is not cancelled by Korg ans will likely receive future support.

So take a deep breath - the future IS bleak (regarding workstations) - just - don't blame Korg !!! (jesting !!)

[Jan1]

...I thought billysynth's post was meant as a parody...

The KRONOS was never advertized as 'open', and the only guarantee KORG could give was that additional sound content would be released, which is exactly what has happened.

An instrument is not about having the most powerful processor onboard and the biggest harddrive.
It is not about have 24 engines instead of 9.
It is not about having 256 notes polyphony instead of 128.
It is not about software vs hardware.

Coming across an instrument which appeals to your heart is like meeting a woman who stands out among a million others as the right one for you, someone who draws out the best in you.
She may not be the most beautiful woman in the world, but she is just right for you.
You do not evaluate this one special lady by checking a list of requirements describing what the ideal woman should be like.
You see in her eyes something which stirs your heart like nothing else, and that's enough for you to know that she's the one.

The same is true for an instrument.
It is not just a list of specifications, it is either something which moves you or which leaves you cold.
And I think too often this aspect is overlooked in a mist of arguments over specifications and technology.

Perhaps my description tends to be a bit tawdry and romanticized, but coming across the Yamaha CP4 I was reminded of this one thing in an instrument which matters most.

[Bachus]

...I thought billysynth's post was meant as a parody...

The KRONOS was never advertized as 'open', and the only guarantee KORG could give was that additional sound content would be released, which is exactly what has happened.

An instrument is not about having the most powerful processor onboard and the biggest harddrive.
It is not about have 24 engines instead of 9.
It is not about having 256 notes polyphony instead of 128.
It is not about software vs hardware.

Coming across an instrument which appeals to your heart is like meeting a woman who stands out among a million others as the right one for you, someone who draws out the best in you.
She may not be the most beautiful woman in the world, but she is just right for you.
You do not evaluate this one special lady by checking a list of requirements describing what the ideal woman should be like.
You see in her eyes something which stirs your heart like nothing else, and that's enough for you to know that she's the one.

The same is true for an instrument.
It is not just a list of specifications, it is either something which moves you or which leaves you cold.
And I think too often this aspect is overlooked in a mist of arguments over specifications and technology.

Perhaps my description tends to be a bit tawdry and romanticized, but coming across the Yamaha CP4 I was reminded of this one thing in an instrument which matters most.

On top of that... they need to be creating new engines for the Kronos 2.... atleast 4 new engines are needed to make the kronos 2 a succes... either that, or they need to open the system up and allow for VST support..

And its not about having a larger number of engines, but about having more quallity and diversity in sound... I dont see how the toyengines of the latest ipad app would add anything to the Kronos

And to be honest, most times when i turn on my Kronos i never need more then my lovely German Grand... and some drums..

[chilly7]

Well actualy the iPad Air can be more powerful then Kronos CPU vise and memory wise it can go up to 128gb
and i am just tolking about device which u can hanld in ur hands, and i am not even speaking about real heavy duty computing tasks like new Mac Pro....

RAM wise, the latest iPads have only 1GB; iPad 2 has 512MB; iPad had 1 just 256MB.

Storage is up to 128GB with the latest iPad (64GB for earlier ones), but much of this will be taken up by any apps you install, music, vids, games, etc. and the OS itself. I've easily filled my 64GB iPad2.

You cannot compare an iPad to a keyboard workstation or a DAW, many of the features have been stripped out and minimalised and the workflow is clumsy (personally). Furthermore it's all proprietary stuff. You can't use third-party plugins, etc.

Furthermore I'm damned if I'm going to keep upgrading to "the latest iPad" every year just to keep up with specs and iOS software.

that's why u need Mac.

[Bachus]

Well actualy the iPad Air can be more powerful then Kronos CPU vise and memory wise it can go up to 128gb
and i am just tolking about device which u can hanld in ur hands, and i am not even speaking about real heavy duty computing tasks like new Mac Pro....

RAM wise, the latest iPads have only 1GB; iPad 2 has 512MB; iPad had 1 just 256MB.

Storage is up to 128GB with the latest iPad (64GB for earlier ones), but much of this will be taken up by any apps you install, music, vids, games, etc. and the OS itself. I've easily filled my 64GB iPad2.

You cannot compare an iPad to a keyboard workstation or a DAW, many of the features have been stripped out and minimalised and the workflow is clumsy (personally). Furthermore it's all proprietary stuff. You can't use third-party plugins, etc.

Furthermore I'm damned if I'm going to keep upgrading to "the latest iPad" every year just to keep up with specs and iOS software.

that's why u need Mac.

Just wondering, is apple paying you?
Youre not even interested in keyboards instruments
What in havens name are you doing on the Korg forums?
I think the KVR audio forums are much better suited for you...

[billysynth]

Korg should do the unthinkable and, on the front page of their web site, ask its customers to help them design their next workstation.

That'll put a dent in Yamaha, Roland.

Billy

[Kevin Nolan]

@Jan1 and billysynth - oops and - Doh!

Apologies for missing the parody (a case of me taking things too seriously so!)

[Bachus]

Korg should do the unthinkable and, on the front page of their web site, ask its customers to help them design their next workstation.

That'll put a dent in Yamaha, Roland.

Billy

take the Kronos...
make the Sequencer work like Abletons lives Matrix
add touchsensitive drumpads
add a huge touchscreen
Make the new synth work like a host for VSt´s or add native VST support and routing

It aint that hard, ain´t it?

[Kevin Nolan]

Korg should do the unthinkable and, on the front page of their web site, ask its customers to help them design their next workstation.

That'll put a dent in Yamaha, Roland.

Billy

take the Kronos...
make the Sequencer work like Abletons lives Matrix
add touchsensitive drumpads
add a huge touchscreen
Make the new synth work like a host for VSt´s or add native VST support and routing

It aint that hard, ain´t it?

So you're suggesting:

1. Re-write the sequencer from scratch, to a standard of Ableton -

2. Redesign the chasis and control surface to include pad, screen, ...

3. Redesign the entire architecture of the instrument to seem like VST plugins.


...for how many users - five, ten thousand users max. How many existing Kronos users would buy that? And what's the existing new market?

Let's have a little reality check here: the ONLY reason why Kronos exists, and at the ridiculously low price it costs, is because of OASYS. Kronos OS, Synth Engines and overall architecture is that of OASYS. OASYS cost $8000 - and the development costs of that are what provided for Kronos to exist. Kronos did not come about of its own accord (nor could ever have at this price point) and did not bare the brunt of the R&D costs leading to its release - OASYS did.

There never was, nor will there ever be, an opportunity to release a radically different Kronos. It would cost too much. Look at the extent of the feature list of Kronos, and compare it to the feature list of Fantom, Motif and so on and you see that it is multiples of their features. You think that could be done at a cost being recouped by Kronos at its current price alone? Not a chance. For all of the debates on whether Motif, Kurzweil or Fantom compare with Kronos (or which you prefer) Kronos is technologically staggeringly ahead of them; but only because it inherits OASYS technology so heavily.

If a replacement to Kronos comes along that requires a redesign and rewrite of all code, and an ergonomic redesign as you suggest, it will cost a LOT more than current Kronos.

Kronos user are living a charmed life - the features of an OASYS, and then some; because us OASYS owners / payers bore the brunt of the front line development. Kronos could not have existed any other way or independently at this price point, and will never exist in another guise because Kronos owners would not pay for it.

Kronos is FAR more capable and valuable then even the average Kronos owner appreciates - let alone those who don't own one. Those of us buying an OASYS of $8000 didn't see it as too expensive - we valued the feature set and by and large saw why it cost that much. We could see the value in it - feature by feature.

To this day, OASYS - a 9 year old instrument - puts Motif and Fantom to shame in terms of feature set and technological capability. Kronos adds to that. If you own a Kronos, you own a unique 'out of step' oddity - a workstation of capability derived directly from an approximate $10,000 instrument. If current trends are anything to go by, we may not see the likes of it for a very long time - certainly Yamaha, and now Roland, may never build a workstation as technologically advanced as Kronos. so a Kronos 2 is equally unlikely and if implemented would have to cost a lot more.

Suggest there needs to be a tad more appreciation of what you're actually sitting at when you're sitting at an existing Kronos!!

Kronos 2 will likely never be - probably because you and other Kronos users wouldn't pay for it.