Korg is making the upgrade from K to K2 impossible

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:27 pm

Well, it seems relatively simple to reactivate on a different computer the software and any sample packs or soft synths with NI. Yea there are activation codes and a service center but with computer changes and such I have lost nothing. I would much prefer that to the inflexible system Korg uses now. Maybe it is just me. I know it is not apples to apples because with NI it is on the computer with Korg it would have to be built into the board somehow it wouldn't be implemented with the Kronos now I am fairly sure but in the future with internet connectivity it would be doable.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:33 pm

As far as licensing goes, NI has worked well for me, true.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:44 pm

Bertotti wrote:I wouldn't worry about a failed mother board as long as it is replaced by a Korg factory service center you are covered.

LOL. If your board is out of warranty, it'll be cheaper to do the work yourself and REBUY the libraries.

PASS.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:25 pm

Bertotti wrote:I wouldn't worry about a failed mother board as long as it is replaced by a Korg factory service center you are covered.

4 yr Kronos owner here. while a few owners have experienced a mobo failure, I think its a rare event. Dan from Korg has said its unlikely plus others that are technically proficient here have stated its not something to worry about.

A PSU is a good insurance policy.

If I have the misfortune of a component failure, and its a $500 repair bill, I would not not be pleased. But the bigger picture for me is that I have no need for another board this year, last year and possibly the next year.

In the past , I use to shell out $4000-$5000 every 3 yrs for a new board(s).
I no longer see any need to spend that kind of money. So, in my picture,, I am getting excellent value from my $3000 Kronos plus a handful of sample libs. Plus the resale of my Kronos is holding up well.

I like these numbers especially when I look over several years of ownership.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:20 pm

I have never paid for service so I have no idea what it costs. Still if that is a concern that is what I was told above. If the cost in the long run is more and you can do the work yourself that, to me is a no brainer.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:27 pm

McHale wrote:
Bertotti wrote:I wouldn't worry about a failed mother board as long as it is replaced by a Korg factory service center you are covered.
LOL. If your board is out of warranty, it'll be cheaper to do the work yourself and REBUY the libraries.

Why do you say that?

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:40 pm

Me? It was said to me in an email several years ago when I emailed and asked Korg. I bought the board after the email but decided for the other reasons I didn't want to invest in libraries i couldn't move to a new board. Case in point is now. I am sorely tempted to save and invest in the 88 key K2.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:12 pm

danatkorg wrote:Why do you say that?

Let's say someone has an original Kronos and the motherboard dies. Since the original D510 motherboard is no longer available to Korg Service Centers, a current motherboard and a bunch of other parts to make that work need to be ordered... plus labor (at least $175, probably more).

According to the service notes on motherboard replacement, here's what's necessary to repair it:

Replacement Parts List Summary
Part Number Category Part Name Notes
200002189801 MOTHER BOARD BLKD525MW
500002191100 MEMORY MODULE SO-DIMM SMD-N2G68H1P-13H
200109263008 Boot Support BOARD
500475004186 HARNESS HARNESS FOR ENO-1612(D525MW)
500641042208 Side Chassis X11150 SideChassis-R C30849-6 * 61 Only
500630042661 Shield sheet X11151 MB SHIELD2 F41788 * 73/88 Only (Order 2)

The total cost for all of those parts PLUS the hourly rate for service will be quite a bit more expensive than a handful of sound libraries and $40 for a drop in replacement motherboard.

-Mc

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:47 pm

That's assuming you don't have more than, say, two sound libraries AND you actually identify the problem correctly and don't spend time and money ordering the wrong parts because you want to service it yourself.

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:13 pm

SanderXpander wrote:That's assuming you don't have more than, say, two sound libraries AND you actually identify the problem correctly and don't spend time and money ordering the wrong parts because you want to service it yourself.

It's cheaper any way you look at it. Most people don't buy more than a couple sound libraries. Feel free to price that all out above plus labor. Don't be surprised when it's in the neighborhood of $600 or more (vs. the $40 it actually cost me). Once it's out of warranty, the labor alone costs as much if not more than the parts. And the motherboard is the only thing that matters since it's the only thing that affects sound libraries. Tying the licensing to a volatile part is ridiculous. They could have EASILY done it based off of unit serial number or registration email or some other random variable that wasn't tied to a part that may need to be replaced.

Up until this thread, I've never complained about it because I support Korg's freedom to do business the way they want and my complaining about it serves no purpose other than to temporarily feel better because I got to vent about it. I've never been upset enough to really care to be honest. I only jumped in this thread to offer my opinion based on what was being discussed. I merely wanted to show support to those that had similar reasons for not purchasing as I've felt the same way since finding out how the licensing works.

-Mc

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:27 pm

FWIW I completely agree about the library policy. I'm just not sure a home repair is cheaper if you own even two Korg libraries (which could be 500 bucks!). Plus, depending on which Kronos you have, you may need to replace RAM and PSU if you're replacing your mobo. And that's assuming you even make the correct diagnosis in the first place - what if it was the SSD?

I have no problem with you servicing your own Kronos but I also saw you flail about for the right part/diagnosis for a while on here. If you have a cool enough head for that, more power to you, and I understand why you did it. I just wouldn't recommend this as general practice for the average user.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:33 pm

McHale wrote:
danatkorg wrote:Why do you say that?
Let's say someone has an original Kronos and the motherboard dies. Since the original D510 motherboard is no longer available to Korg Service Centers, a current motherboard and a bunch of other parts to make that work need to be ordered... plus labor (at least $175, probably more).

According to the service notes on motherboard replacement, here's what's necessary to repair it:

Replacement Parts List Summary
Part Number Category Part Name Notes
200002189801 MOTHER BOARD BLKD525MW
500002191100 MEMORY MODULE SO-DIMM SMD-N2G68H1P-13H
200109263008 Boot Support BOARD
500475004186 HARNESS HARNESS FOR ENO-1612(D525MW)
500641042208 Side Chassis X11150 SideChassis-R C30849-6 * 61 Only
500630042661 Shield sheet X11151 MB SHIELD2 F41788 * 73/88 Only (Order 2)
The total cost for all of those parts PLUS the hourly rate for service will be quite a bit more expensive than a handful of sound libraries and $40 for a drop in replacement motherboard.

-Mc

You make a pretty large number of assumptions above.
(A) Anything you can get, service centers can get.
(B) Either the parts are needed, or they're not. It sounds like you're talking about replacing the first motherboard type (D510) with a new motherboard type (D525). Not surprising that different shielding etc. would be necessary in order to do the replacement to factory specs, EMI etc. Omit those parts, and you won't be functioning to factory specs. But, if you can find a D510, I'm sure that a good service center could find one too.
(C) I have stuff serviced from time to time. I have never, ever felt that it was too expensive.
(D) Cost comparison depends on the library cost(s), of course.

jeebustrain · Post by **jeebustrain** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:33 pm

it is conceivable that if the activation is tied to the mac address of the onboard nic, you could use Intel's EEPROM programmer utility to reprogram the mac address of the new board to match the old one (if the new one is an Intel board/nic). I know such utilities exist for other chipsets as well. This would require you to mount the board in a PC first and boot to a DOS/Win32 environment to use the utility (I'm not aware of one that is Linux based).

I haven't tried this and I have no plans to (since I don't have any of the libraries), but it may be possible. It's definitely not for the inexperienced person (these utilities can brick your new motherboard), though.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:38 pm

McHale wrote:Tying the licensing to a volatile part is ridiculous.

Characterizing the motherboard as "volatile" seems a bit strange. I am aware of very, very few actual motherboard failures on the KRONOS. I'm sorry if yours was one of them.

enigmahack · Post by **enigmahack** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:43 pm

jeebustrain wrote:it is conceivable that if the activation is tied to the mac address of the onboard nic, you could use Intel's EEPROM programmer utility to reprogram the mac address of the new board to match the old one (if the new one is an Intel board/nic). I know such utilities exist for other chipsets as well. This would require you to mount the board in a PC first and boot to a DOS/Win32 environment to use the utility (I'm not aware of one that is Linux based).

I haven't tried this and I have no plans to (since I don't have any of the libraries), but it may be possible. It's definitely not for the inexperienced person (these utilities can brick your new motherboard), though.

I didn't even want to bring up EEPROM flashing, but I agree... It's not only technically feasible but I've had to do it in larger network environments where someone was experimenting with MAC Address spoofing and we were getting conflicts.

Yeah, it's a LOT of work with high risk but it's high-reward in that you could "salvage" your libraries.

I would like to point out: This is also a piracy method. Let's say I have a bunch of libraries and multiple Korg Kronos's. I could in theory flash the MAC address in one Kronos to match the other one, and suddenly I can share libraries between both of them while only paying for one.

For that reason, I don't think it wise to necessarily discuss in too much detail the process, but just be aware it's out there.