Kronos feedback.

[Hedegaard]

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I think the question is insignificant in relation to the Kronos.
There is no make mention of updates for this instrument.
From what i can gather, you buy it complete, you get your warranty, you get your nine instruments and thats it. Who said anything about updates? Where?


With Oasys it was different, you bought it, got your warranty, and
you were told there will be updates. The updates stopped prematurely
and Oasys owners got...a little angry.

Billy

who is to say what was "prematurely".... that sounds like your word against theirs if you ask me....

No, we were told we'd get an EXf and we didn't.
Instead, it seems like the Kronos got it....

So yes, it was a premature abrupt end to the O's continued development.

[afr]

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Hi Sharp,

You have the Kronos Brochure?
Is it possible for us to see it plz?

Billy

+1 please

[Hedegaard]

I even have the official Boucher on the Kronos here in front of me and it mentions the OASYS.

LINK OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!
PICTURE OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!
PDF FILE OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!



Please! We've been waiting forever now Sharp!!!

[Zeroesque]

Dear Korg,

Please release the Kronos with only 4 synth engines. Say, HD-1, SGX-1, CX-3, and AL-1. That way, the OASYS people can continue to feel all warm and fuzzy inside about how Moore's law doesn't apply to them, and the other haters can get free updates in the coming years to make them feel appreciated by Korg.

Thanks and regards,

Tim

PS: Make my Kronos the full-blown bad-a** that only a company like Korg is daring enough to create. I'm sorry consumers don't understand what it is to be a major synth manufacturer trying to push the technological envelope during a tough economic climate.

[Hedegaard]

Dear Korg,

Please release the Kronos with only 4 synth engines. Say, HD-1, SGX-1, CX-3, and AL-1. That way, the OASYS people can continue to feel all warm and fuzzy inside about how Moore's law doesn't apply to them, and the other haters can get free updates in the coming years to make them feel appreciated by Korg.

Thanks and regards,

Tim

PS: Make my Kronos the full-blown bad-a** that only a company like Korg is daring enough to create. I'm sorry consumers don't understand what it is to be a major synth manufacturer trying to push the technological envelope during a tough economic climate.

I'm sorry you don't understand what Oasys users are griping about, but perhaps you would too if you were told one thing and given another.....

Anyway, be happy with your Kro/asys, I'm sure it'll give you pleasure as much as Oasys users have had in the last 5 or so years

[Zeroesque]

Dear Korg,

Please release the Kronos with only 4 synth engines. Say, HD-1, SGX-1, CX-3, and AL-1. That way, the OASYS people can continue to feel all warm and fuzzy inside about how Moore's law doesn't apply to them, and the other haters can get free updates in the coming years to make them feel appreciated by Korg.

Thanks and regards,

Tim

PS: Make my Kronos the full-blown bad-a** that only a company like Korg is daring enough to create. I'm sorry consumers don't understand what it is to be a major synth manufacturer trying to push the technological envelope during a tough economic climate.

I'm sorry you don't understand what Oasys users are griping about, but perhaps you would too if you were told one thing and given another.....

Anyway, be happy with your Kro/asys, I'm sure it'll give you pleasure as much as Oasys users have had in the last 5 or so years

Not including features, fixes and enhancements, Korg released 4 new synth engines for the OASYS since it's original release: the STR-1, MOD-7, MS-20EX and PolysixEX. Oh, and there was an EXs-3 library in there, too. At least this is what I'm seeing in the software updates section of the support site. Am I confused or was this was the most updated synth in history? What was promised by Korg in some written contract w/ every user that makes that list of awesomeness seem paltry by comparison or even downright unethical (which is how some are choosing to portray it)?

I'm not saying you weren't lead to believe something, but reality is reality. The 2 new Kronos engines (badly needed, BTW) simply won't work in an OASYS. The pianos won't fit into memory and they probably can't implement streaming and VMT on the OASYS platform w/o a major overhaul. What should Korg have done?

That's what I'd love to hear from the disgruntled users of the most powerful keyboard ever created (as of 2010): what would you like Korg to do? Then, take your wishes and estimate what it would cost in terms of people, time and money to implement. Then see if the amount of warm and fuzzy that would provide to a niche market would end up justifying that expense through new sales of lesser keyboards. Well, what do you come up with? This is even an absurdly simple example.

I can't imagine a tech company sitting around updating their last creation until the end of time, while other manufacturers pass them by putting out new products, and no one even blinks an eye. Because, are they really crapping all over current customers by building upon their innovations and making new products? What do you expect?

There must be much that I don't know, here. However, it is what it is. Is it possible to just let it go, or at least rant about it in the OASYS forum? This seems just as bad as trolls that come in and say the MotifFantomFusionPC3K did everything the Kronos does now, but a decade ago and even better.

No real offense meant here, BTW. I'm just at a loss for understanding.

[Hedegaard]

What was promised by Korg in some written contract w/ every user that makes that list of awesomeness seem paltry by comparison or even downright unethical (which is how some are choosing to portray it)?

No offence taken

They promised an EXf. It was written everywhere, in the manual, brochures, online.
We didn't get that. How difficult is that to understand?

The elusive EXf is probably the ambient drum effects. (But thats just my guess)

Otherwise I agree with you about technology moving forward and the rest of what you wrote.

Oasys users paid top dollar and yes we got many updates over the years, it was great and kudos to the design team for their efforts.

Besides all of that, congratulations on your Kro/asys, sorry I didn't mean to be a Yamaha freakazoid because I know firsthand how stoopid that can sound to post about the Yama-haha on this forum.

PS-I'm sure you can use a lot of Oasys resources when you finally get your Kronos, because the engines are the same (except the piano etc) so check out the Oasys threads too

[Flash & The Pan]

What was promised by Korg in some written contract w/ every user that makes that list of awesomeness seem paltry by comparison or even downright unethical (which is how some are choosing to portray it)?

Don’t read too much into Korg’s slogan about the “Open Architecture SYStem”, it’s not really open and not modular or extendable, unlike a general purpose OS.

Neither OASYS/KRONOS nor VSTi host system is a complete self-contained OS which can execute program modules. You need host OS interface to handle disk I/O, memory management, graphics, and inter-process communication. The DAW host that runs VSTi plug-ins does not implement these subsystems - you need to run it on top either Windows or Mac OS.

The way it was designed, Korg just has their proprietary application which runs on top of modified Linux OS. This application was probably never really intended for 3rd party expansion; you can only add additional modules/egines if you have the complete source code, and every such addition requires recompilation of the source code into a new binary. That’s how more modelling instruments were released for the OASYS - as paid-for OS update which contained the updated system software, not some downloadable plug-in which you could install to your OASYS as you do on the PC/Mac.

I’m not saying that it is not possible for Korg to create a SDK for 3rd parties and update the system to allow installable plug-ins. I however do not see the incentive for Korg to make it happen. They would probably want to control the quality of 3rd party software, or they risk ruining user experienc. In a closed system, you only have trusted code which you own and control - you can alter and extend it however you like to fit your requirements. An open system would require complex security, right management, compatibility etc. Once you publish the API, you just can’t change it to improve some minor OS feature… etc.

As for plug-in makers, they would have to adapt to a different OS (Linux) and different integration API, in hope that the sales on this very small market of hardware workstations will compenate the development efforts. I don’t think it will happen, considering there are millions of Windows and Mac PCs, with probably hundred thousand of potential customers, and only several thousands of users who buy expensive high-end workstations.

So, we’ll seee how the KRONOS works for Korg, however I really doubt that something like VST/VSTi plug-ins will happen any time soon. There are Open Labs, Liontracs, etc. who already went the same route and it didn’t seem to get them much sales.

No offence taken

They promised an EXf. It was written everywhere, in the manual, brochures, online.
We didn't get that. How difficult is that to understand?

The elusive EXf is probably the ambient drum effects. (But thats just my guess)

Otherwise I agree with you about technology moving forward and the rest of what you wrote.

Oasys users paid top dollar and yes we got many updates over the years, it was great and kudos to the design team for their efforts.

Besides all of that, congratulations on your Kro/asys, sorry I didn't mean to be a Yamaha freakazoid because I know firsthand how stoopid that can sound to post about the Yama-haha on this forum.

PS-I'm sure you can use a lot of Oasys resources when you finally get your Kronos, because the engines are the same (except the piano etc) so check out the Oasys threads too

[EXer]

is the fact that the screen is smaller & non-tilting an annoyance, or do you think you'd get used to that very quickly?

A tilting display would be nice, but it is still the best quality screen KORG have put in a workstation yet. I could live with it very easily.

The Trinity screen was angled, which made it very convenient to use with the keyboard lying in the lower tier of a keyboard stand.

The Kronos screen lies flat on the panel. Don't you feel that this could be a drawback in the situation described above?

[EXer]

...
And Korg has started the race- up till now the big 3 were just recycling: Roland and Yamaha will have to get off their asses and put some real synthesis in their workstations.
...

Well, I'm not sure they will have to.

The Motif is basically a rompler, but the original Motif and the Motif ES had connectors for PLG cards which allowed these instruments to be expanded with alternate types of syntheses - FM, AN and VL (although it still lacked the FDSP of the EX5 and the FS of the FS1R). This possibility has been dropped by Yamaha since they released the XS. I believe they dropped the PLG cards because they didn't sell very well.

A synth maker has to built instruments that meet the expectations of their market, and, like it or loathe it, what most of the buyers want is a preset laden instrument with tons of good quality and ready to use sounds from which they can chose without even having to edit a preset. Let's not even speak of programming...

Personally, as an EX5 owner and as a synth programmer, I don't like the Motif, but I can notice that you can see Motifs everywhere on stage and on sets (more than M3s...). There must be a good reason for that (before the Motif became widespread you could see Tritons on almost every stage or set, maybe in a couple of years you'll see Kronosses everywhere...).

I'm interested in the Kronos for the reasons I explained here, but I believe that there is only *one* feature of the Kronos that the competition will have to put in their future instruments, that is Gbytes of multi-samples streamed from SSDs.

[jimknopf]

I'm not sure.

I'm surprised how many young musicians are beginning to explore all kinds of soundshaping possibilities again.

To be sincere:
all musicians are happy to get access to a basic set of sounds fitting their kind of music making, or at least coming near! It's important to get a start and to be flexible through different genres. But my impression is: many musicians meanhwile also find too many of those all too well recognizeable elevator music and pop industry sounds more and more boring, and for very good reason!

It's the mixture of preset use and individual sound shaping that makes a modern workstation, and using sound shaping possibilities also marks the difference between an average musician and a creative one - at least in music forms using electronic instruments.


So yes, Yamaha are king of the pop mainstream preset sound.
But from my view they are lousy bad in giving you the right device to form your individual soundscapes along with your music. They are bought as often and at the same time just as boring, as the often-read rainbow press is for newspaper readers.

So from my view a Yamaha XF may be a really fine preset ROMpler, but I also regard it as quite a boring piece of musical gear, which I wouldn't consider even for a moment. I already bought a Fantom G, just to get a sound, which is distinct from their "middle of the road" stuff, and I'm glad I can soon leave this whole very limited and dumb old ROMpler workstation concept far behind, with something as interesting as the Kronos.

The news, what can be done with what (XF vs. Kronos), will probably spread fast. And from my view the present Yamaha and Roland workstation concepts have no future at all, despite being a choice for lazy preset musicians.

[burningbusch]

Someone mentioned in another post that it would be helpful to be able to save the pads with the program/combi. Along those same lines, I think it would be great to have the option to save the External Mode Setups (soft synth templates)- (switches/sliders) at the program/combi level. I understand that if you're working in a DAW that you probably just want to move from one soft synth template to the next within the same program/combi, but for live players who might want to control different synths with each patch change, this would be very helpful, IMO.

Maybe I'm missing something and this is already possible.

Busch.

[Jon Lord]

Someone mentioned in another post that it would be helpful to be able to save the pads with the program/combi. Along those same lines, I think it would be great to have the option to save the External Mode Setups (soft synth templates)- (switches/sliders) at the program/combi level. I understand that if you're working in a DAW that you probably just want to move from one soft synth template to the next within the same program/combi, but for live players who might want to control different synths with each patch change, this would be very helpful, IMO.

Maybe I'm missing something and this is already possible.

Busch.

Everything mentioned above is already doable in the M3 so kronos should be able handle everything + more.

[burningbusch]

I had the M3 and did not find that those external soft synth templates saved with the combi/program. It's been a few years so maybe I'm mistaken.

Busch.

[StephenKay]

I had the M3 and did not find that those external soft synth templates saved with the combi/program. It's been a few years so maybe I'm mistaken.

Busch.

They don't. You cannot have a Program or combi call up a specific external control template.