Korg Kronos?

[Hedegaard]

.....I feel this will happen: after Korg sell many-many Kronoses they will give the update (or the part of it) to OASYS users. For free. (?) Why not?

Sorry Akos, your optimism is creating a dream-like state in the logical area of your brain.

My next question is how long will it take for you to come to realize that the "Oasys upgrade" dream has ended?

Perhaps your grandchildren can show you an Oasys software rendition on their future mobile phone and you will think that is an upgrade?

I mean if you think with a clear mind about this:
WHY would Korg create updates for Oasys that sold roughly 3000 units, instead of creating upgrades for the Kronos that might sell 20000 units?
Theres more money in it.
I'm sure ozy can confirm the financial aspects of that?

[Hedegaard]

Hey!
I made this thread reach 100 pages!

Whats my prize?

[Megakazbek]

Thanks for your elaborate explanation.
However, if 8 layers (all at the same time) sounding samples per oscillator, that is already double the Oasys, so therefore it would require more resources, unless perhaps you scale down the available amount of resources.

The layers don't sound all at the same time. If you hit note with some velocity, only the layer that responds to that velocity will sound, or, if you enabled crossfading, two crossfaded layers may sound at the same time if velocity is in crossfade zone. But you never get more than two layers sounding at the same time, no matter how many total velocity layers you have. And layers that aren't currently sounding, don't take any resources at all. I.e. even if you have 10000 velocity zones, only one or two will be active at the same time (per each note), others will just sit there waiting to be triggered and won't take any extra CPU resources.

[Hedegaard]

Thanks for your elaborate explanation.
However, if 8 layers (all at the same time) sounding samples per oscillator, that is already double the Oasys, so therefore it would require more resources, unless perhaps you scale down the available amount of resources.

The layers don't sound all at the same time. If you hit note with some velocity, only the layer that responds to that velocity will sound, or, if you enabled crossfading, two crossfaded layers may sound at the same time if velocity is in crossfade zone. But you never get more than two layers sounding at the same time, no matter how many total velocity layers you have. And layers that aren't currently sounding, don't take any resources at all. I.e. even if you have 10000 velocity zones, only one or two will be active at the same time (per each note), others will just sit there waiting to be triggered and won't take any extra CPU resources.

Are you sure about this?
Can you explain this to me in Roland-speak? i.e. partials, patches, tones?

If you have 4x velocity zones on Oscilator 1 = 4 sounds at the same time, IF all 4 velocity zones are set from velocity 1-> 127

This is what I'm fooled to believe

[Akos Janca]

.....I feel this will happen: after Korg sell many-many Kronoses they will give the update (or the part of it) to OASYS users. For free. (?) Why not?

Sorry Akos, your optimism is creating a dream-like state in the logical area of your brain.
My next question is how long will it take for you to come to realize that the "Oasys upgrade" dream has ended?

Please quote me correctly. I started like "If the above is true...". It wasn't a solid statement, just a dream based on Naviára's post. Read that.

Yes, I know my idea doesn't seem to be based on reality.

P.S. No prize for you for page 100. You quoted ME to reach it.

[Megakazbek]

If you have 4x velocity zones on Oscilator 1 = 4 sounds at the same time, IF all 4 velocity zones are set from velocity 1-> 127

In Kronos/OASYS no more than two zones can be triggered by any one velocity value, so you can't set them ALL to 1-127.
Basically, you set up the zones by cutting whole 1-127 diapason into up to 8 non-overlapping parts, and then the only way you can get zones to overlap is by using crossfading which works only in two adjacent zones but not further.

[John Hendry]

“It's right, dualcore Atom isn't the fastest processor, it's overall equal to a P4 2.0-3.0 Ghz”

That’s what I was thinking although they reduced the polyphony so wondered if it really is as fast overall and why they did this…maybe to keep some specs behind OASYS and not *iss off too many people. In a desktop the P4 was fast for it’s time but ran really hot so Atom is a major upgrade even if it were a tad slower. I went to Toms to look at it but I’m so behind the times I decided to wait to try to catch up as its too addicting and will wait till time to build a new game machine.

“Its way faster then the Oasys CPU, just check some floating point benchmarks and you'll know what i am talking about.”

I noticed that….wonder what chipset Korg used…..I’m sure we’ll will know in time.

“In combination mode it's possible to run out of voices if you add too many programs that uses the stronger engines...”

This is why I say Kronos is not the OASYS2. I think Korg has a ego and likes coming out with mind blowing products even if they don’t make much money off it immediately and here we are seeing them get back money from the OASYS which at aprox 3000 units made was not much profit IMO….maybe even a short term loss as R&D is huge. Poly AT really is needed now so its either drop AT all together or get it together and go back in time and add what is needed and was there back in the beginning. Just imagine AT assigned to sound with control….endless….but it will eat more voices too.

“But you can't seriously compare something running on a resource hogging Windows OS with a minimalistic Linux OS with real time processing embedded intoo the Kernel....”

I know….just not enough. Old 8 MHZ (AIR) Atari handled MIDI well enough.

“or the ATOM simply isn't faster then the Oasys CPU.”

I think it’s slower in a PC with all functions considered. I probably would never buy an Atom laptop after using one and say probably in case the one I used had a issue with Library’s OS, HD, BIOS etc. Drove me nuts with word loaded and Internet going.

“no, its because the Kronos has deeper quality, 8 velocity layers contra Oasys 4 layers, so its virtually DOUBLE that of Oasys!!!”

But not double the Polyphony and 4 more velocity layers is a minor resource use difference if any….I think….back to not enough information again.

“why do Europeans and many people around the work pay a third? more than I do in the US? Whats up with that?”

People have a habit of killing people that are smarter than them to control them and this is what happens when they are not smart enough. It’s a gray area where heading towards the light fixes that issue. People should not work for what they get. They should get what they work for themselves.

John^^

[Hedegaard]

.....I feel this will happen: after Korg sell many-many Kronoses they will give the update (or the part of it) to OASYS users. For free. (?) Why not?

Sorry Akos, your optimism is creating a dream-like state in the logical area of your brain.
My next question is how long will it take for you to come to realize that the "Oasys upgrade" dream has ended?

Please quote me correctly. I started like "If the above is true...". It wasn't a solid statement, just a dream based on Naviára's post. Read that.

Yes, I know my idea doesn't seem to be based on reality.

P.S. No prize for you for page 100. You quoted ME to reach it.

Yes, when I quote, if I want to leave out all the info before, I put "....." to show that there are previous sentences.
or I put "blah blah blah....." to show there was words written before the quote.
But I see how it can seem as if it was a solid statement from my quote above.

100 pages, dosent mantter if I quote you or not haha

[Hedegaard]

If you have 4x velocity zones on Oscilator 1 = 4 sounds at the same time, IF all 4 velocity zones are set from velocity 1-> 127

In Kronos/OASYS no more than two zones can be triggered by any one velocity value, so you can't set them ALL to 1-127.
Basically, you set up the zones by cutting whole 1-127 diapason into up to 8 non-overlapping parts, and then the only way you can get zones to overlap is by using crossfading which works only in two adjacent zones but not further.

Right. Thanks for the explanation, then based on this alone, it would bring the possibility of Kro/asys compatability just a little bit closer.

[ozy]

...

P.S. No prize for you for page 100. You quoted ME to reach it.

hey you two, stop that:

You are beginning to sound like Ozy

[Akos Janca]

...

P.S. No prize for you for page 100. You quoted ME to reach it.

hey you two, stop that:

You are beginning to sound like Ozy

Yes, and Cello is the third one. What happened to us?

[cello]

P.S. No prize for you for page 100. You quoted ME to reach it.

hey you two, stop that:

You are beginning to sound like Ozy

Yes, and Cello is the third one. What happened to us?

LOL!

I fear we have contracted 'ozy-itis' A condition that spreads itself by people hitting F5 too often at KF. When there are no new posts responding to your own post, you get irritable and grumpy, which results in ozy-type posts...

I have been to the doctor, who kindly gave me a couple of pills. I believe I'm cured. (must be - haven't used the word 'fact' in the post at all!)

Doh - I just did! Nooo - neeeeedd mooorreee pppiiiilllllsssssss

[Naviára]

Thanks for your elaborate explanation.
However, if 8 layers (all at the same time) sounding samples per oscillator, that is already double the Oasys, so therefore it would require more resources, unless perhaps you scale down the available amount of resources.

The layers don't sound all at the same time. If you hit note with some velocity, only the layer that responds to that velocity will sound, or, if you enabled crossfading, two crossfaded layers may sound at the same time if velocity is in crossfade zone. But you never get more than two layers sounding at the same time, no matter how many total velocity layers you have. And layers that aren't currently sounding, don't take any resources at all. I.e. even if you have 10000 velocity zones, only one or two will be active at the same time (per each note), others will just sit there waiting to be triggered and won't take any extra CPU resources.

Are you sure about this?
Can you explain this to me in Roland-speak? i.e. partials, patches, tones?

If you have 4x velocity zones on Oscilator 1 = 4 sounds at the same time, IF all 4 velocity zones are set from velocity 1-> 127

This is what I'm fooled to believe

It's really not complicated - look at the specifications.

The HD-1 engine has a maximum voicecount of 140 voices at the same time - and this only if no effects applied to a program patch (no IFX/MFX/TFX) and no other synthengine voices are played at the same time.

one voice = 1 mono sample
two voices= 1 stereo sample

so it really doesn't matter how many velocity switches you use.. even if you assign 8 stereo samples to the 8 velocity switches and extend them during the complete velocity zones so that all 8 samples will played at once if you hit a single key - it will steal the engine at max 16 voices on one single note.. Oasys can only use 4 Zones so it will steal the HD-1 engine max 8 voices. Usually the velocity zones are used as switch, so for a stereo sample only 2 or 4 voices would be used at the same time on one single key (4 voices if crossfade between zones are enabled).

Please don't think you can use 140 HD-1 voices plus 100 XG voices plus 40 STR-1 voices plus 40 MS20 voices in one combi - for this you would need at least a core i7 processor.

The truth is: if 10 voices from the STR-1 engine are played together, the maximum voicecount on all other engines will drop by 25% - so the maximum possible polyphony of XG voices will drop to 75, MS20 voices will be drop to 20 and HD-1 drop to 105. As soon as the used voice stops, it will release the ressources so it could be used for the other engines. Usually the factory program and combi patches by KORG are clever programmed, so that no loss of voices will appear. But if you create your own combis you can easy run out of voices if you don't know how the ressources are shared...

Diskstreaming:

100 XG voices will use a Traffic of 20MB/s on the SSD / HDD - The transfer of 40-50MB/s is possible with the Oasys HDD... Keep in mind: You are not able to play more then 100 voices on the XG piano (that usually don't make sense anyway..) even if you try to insert 4 different piano patches in one combi - the maximum voicecount will stop when 100 voices are reached - because of used effects and voices of other synthengines used at the same time, usually you can't reach 100 voices anyway...

I hope you understand how the Kronos share the ressources between the different engines...

greetings
A.

[Akos Janca]

Thanks, Naviára, for the explanation above. (I like the tinkling menu commands on your website, the main page, the Media and Link subpages. A visitor can play along the background music - great idea! The sounds are created with OASYS, right?)

I fear we have contracted 'ozy-itis' ... Nooo - neeeeedd mooorreee pppiiiilllllsssssss

[Naviára]

Thanks, Naviára, for the explanation above. (I like the tinkling menu commands on your website, the main page, the Media and Link subpages. A visitor can play along the background music - great idea! The sounds are created with OASYS, right?)

I fear we have contracted 'ozy-itis' ... Nooo - neeeeedd mooorreee pppiiiilllllsssssss

Hi Akos,

thanks for visiting us and your nice command..

No that's not Oasys, the sounds are from East/West Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, RA and Symphonic choirs. That buttons can play a melody fitting to the background music we have done on purpose...

greetings
A.