Style Endings?

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:34 pm

I haven't had a chance to record the bad endings yet, but here is one from a demo of the new PA4X. Listen around 5:30 to how the style just stops when ending is hit. It even surprises the demonstrator and leaves him to play a "naked" piano chord. There are other example in this demo as well.
Some endings are worse than this, but there are plenty of good ones, so it CAN be done correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtc3R159xpM

Added: another good example at about 17:05.

DonM

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:19 pm

Actually, that's simply a function of the player not having memorized the endings. The endings works fine if had played along with it!

The second one (Ipanema) might have gone either way with a more held ending or a dead stop, but the first one is fine.

Obviously, the demonstrator hasn't spent enough time with it yet (as we all do when we first get them), but I guarantee, those endings COULD be made to work if you play along with them.

Ipanema could DEFINITELY use my 'Hold last note' system, though.

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:22 pm

I'll try to find time to post some bad ones from my PA3X. I've played every brand and nearly every model of arranger since they were invented, and never saw endings this way.

worth · Post by **worth** » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:11 pm

You have three intro and endings to choose from . An extravagant and flashy one , one that you can determine by the chord progressions you , play and one that is used if you want a quick intro or ending . It seems straightforward enough to me .

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:39 am

Thanks Worth, but I've been playing Korg (and most other brand) arrangers for many, many years. I know the difference between good endings and bad ones, even if they are short.

Some of these are embarrassing. I will absolutely post some tomorrow. I took the Ketron to work, so I was able to bring the Korg home and do this.
DonM

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:42 pm

At least the fix is a fairly simple one...

Open the style in the style editor, find the very last note of any endings you use, and edit the note length to be longer in each Part that has one. Not sure if you might need to append an extra bar to the ending if the note length is longer than the last bar. YMMV.

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:35 pm

DonM wrote:Thanks Worth, but I've been playing Korg (and most other brand) arrangers for many, many years. I know the difference between good endings and bad ones, even if they are short.
Some of these are embarrassing. I will absolutely post some tomorrow. I took the Ketron to work, so I was able to bring the Korg home and do this.
DonM

Looks as if it will be Monday before I get to it. Life got in the way!

Thoraldus · Post by **Thoraldus** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:04 pm

DonM wrote:I haven't had a chance to record the bad endings yet, but here is one from a demo of the new PA4X. Listen around 5:30 to how the style just stops when ending is hit. It even surprises the demonstrator and leaves him to play a "naked" piano chord. There are other example in this demo as well.
Some endings are worse than this, but there are plenty of good ones, so it CAN be done correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtc3R159xpM

Added: another good example at about 17:05.

DonM

In both cases he selected Ending 3 - which is supposed to be an abrupt ending. He's probably used to the Yamaha Ending 3 = full embellished ending.

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:42 pm

Yamaha has simple endings as well, but they have a decay of sound, however slight. These are like someone pulling the electrical plug.
I can not believe it doesn't bother every person who plays one. I know of two of my friends who were going to get PA3X but didn't solely because of this.
I've been too busy to record some examples, but will get around to it sooner or later.
DonM

Thoraldus · Post by **Thoraldus** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:07 am

DonM wrote:Yamaha has simple endings as well, but they have a decay of sound, however slight. These are like someone pulling the electrical plug.
I can not believe it doesn't bother every person who plays one. I know of two of my friends who were going to get PA3X but didn't solely because of this.
I've been too busy to record some examples, but will get around to it sooner or later.
DonM

The factory styles and their endings are not cast in concrete. The beauty of the KORG PAs OS is the user can change anything to their taste, easily. Your friends were ill advised I think.

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:09 am

Of course you can, but you shouldn't have to. Anyway, it wasn't my decision, it was theirs.

Thoraldus · Post by **Thoraldus** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:38 am

By the way, looks like the guy hit the Ending 3 on the 2nd or 3rd beat of the measure. Ending 3 of Cool Bossa has the first 4 beats programmed in 2 measures, the last 4 beats are silent. It helps to hit the endings on the first beat of the measure as endings do not have cue modes.

Your friends were still ill advised with their own council, as that's one of the silliest reasons I've heard yet for not buying an arranger. Anyway, you can make any arranger sound bad without much effort, you still need a modicum of musical ability and some familiarity with each machine to make them sound good.

Tony White of Bonners did pretty good not having touched the PA4X (or apparently any PA before)

Thoraldus · Post by **Thoraldus** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:48 am

I just looked at the PA4X manual and confirmed that Cue Mode is still only available on Variation or Fill elements. Page 236 under Synchronizing

howie · Post by **howie** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:58 am

you are absolutely right Don...I have been very frustrated by the endings for many years...I often try copying good endings to bad / non existent endings in the style edit - sometimes that can work really well......often at gigs I just use fad out as the ending is too embarrassing and I can't seem to get anything that works - ( I am no pro editor ) but the main style is so good I am prepared to use it live.

I am hoping that the 4X endings are much better.. I only use ending 3, as 1 and 2 are just not acceptable...well not in a western rock environment that I work in.

DonM · Post by **DonM** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:51 pm

Wow, I was pretty sure I'm not crazy but starting to wonder. Our experiences are the same--working around the bad endings, changing them, editing them, fading out, etc.
Thank you for stepping up. There have to be others that notice this. It is not a little subtle thing, it is dramatic. You are playing a terrific-sounding style, ready to end the song, and forget which ending you can use and which leaves you standing there naked, trying to cover up with right-hand riffs and chords.
DonM