Electribe 2 Petition help

thebiglebowski · Post by **thebiglebowski** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:15 pm

Once again Cade, thank you for all the time you've invested into this. This can really can benefit all E2 users, so it suprises me that some people here still have a hard time to understand that.

Anyway, I have 2 comments:

Voice Stealing:

I don’t think it is something that can be „fixed”. The hardware has its limits, which is reflected by the part priority feature. Its unrealistic to expect that all 16 parts will play back polyphonic, each with its own IFX.

What needs to be fixed is the manual. It has no explanation whatsoever of the voice architecture.
If they could make a chart that explains it, users could plan ahead and optimise their patterns.

Overall comment:

The E2/E2S should be painted in a positive light.
The firmware update is supposed to take an already capable device to the next level. Which would definitely make news and potentially attract new customers.

The petition should be a manifestation of our community/user base – that we exist and just feel abandoned by the lack of development interest. Other competitive products are updated on a regular basis. Just show Korg that the Electribe should not be forgotten.

So it is important that once the petition is posted, we should post the link to Korg's social media and related websites and blogs (Synthopia, Sonicstate, Musicradar, CDM).

hztirf · Post by **hztirf** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:34 pm

thebiglebowski wrote:Once again Cade, thank you for all the time you've invested into this. This can really can benefit all E2 users, so it suprises me that some people here still have a hard time to understand that.

Anyway, I have 2 comments:

Voice Stealing:

I don’t think it is something that can be „fixed”. The hardware has its limits, which is reflected by the part priority feature. Its unrealistic to expect that all 16 parts will play back polyphonic, each with its own IFX.

What needs to be fixed is the manual. It has no explanation whatsoever of the voice architecture.
If they could make a chart that explains it, users could plan ahead and optimise their patterns.

Overall comment:

The E2/E2S should be painted in a positive light.
The firmware update is supposed to take an already capable device to the next level. Which would definitely make news and potentially attract new customers.

The petition should be a manifestation of our community/user base – that we exist and just feel abandoned by the lack of development interest. Other competitive products are updated on a regular basis. Just show Korg that the Electribe should not be forgotten.

So it is important that once the petition is posted, we should post the link to Korg's social media and related websites and blogs (Synthopia, Sonicstate, Musicradar, CDM).

+1 for your 2 comments.

Z7A · Post by **Z7A** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:34 pm

thebiglebowski wrote:The E2/E2S should be painted in a positive light.
The firmware update is supposed to take an already capable device to the next level. Which would definitely make news and potentially attract new customers.

Yes, the HAIKU minuscule2 is good. But let's face it, what we really are asking for is the electribe3 PRO.

h.vel · Post by **h.vel** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:15 pm

thebiglebowski wrote: Voice Stealing:

I don’t think it is something that can be „fixed”.

This could be "fixed" for shure. The E2 has 24 voices, even if just 9-10 monophonic parts (with muted FX, no filter, no envelope...) are playing it already cuts the voices!

I've made many tests with voice stealing and the voice stealing has almost nothing to do with "polyphonic" parts (remember they are paraphonic, something different).

The main problem with voice stealing is that: 1.) muted parts are still eating CPU power! That means: even if you have just 1 track playing (and 9 tracks are muted) there is already voice stealing, this is absolutely unnecessary! 2.) also muted IFX take a lot CPU. Usually you need maybe 4-8 activated IFX in a pattern, but the Electribe always calculates all 16 IFX.

This is just bad programming and easy to fix! If Korg just would fix that muted stuff needs no CPU power, I expect that we could have 16 simultaneously parts (with maybe 3-4 IFX).

With your "overall comment" I agree.

h.vel · Post by **h.vel** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:05 pm

Again, thanks for the well written stuff! Here are some thoughts:

Cade wrote:...With the latest update in June of 2016, none of the issues were addressed. With the previous update in November of 2015, only a few of the issues were addressed...

I wouldn't mention the "update" in June/2016, because there has been no update. There was just a mistake by Korg to upload something and after a few days they deleted it. I assume 95% of the E2 users didn't recognized it, just a few nerds (like us) checking updates daily. So, this is confusing for many users and it also gives a wrong impression of Korgs update-policy. The last update was in November 2015 and it just addressed "Reduce the noise generated by a specific condition.". Nothing else. THAT was very frustrating and maybe need to be mentioned? By the way, even this "generated noise" hasn't been fixed in this "update", just the frequency of that noise has changed slightly - so this update changed nothing!

40a. Fix Noise when audio in is enabled (i.e. set to thru) and power save mode is enabled
40b. high pitched noise (~13kHz) when line in is enabled (http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... sc&start=0)

Is there any reason why 40a. isn't in the bug-list anymore? I think it's a very heavy issue! Same with issue 40b. Both issues disturbing any semi-professional recording/mixing. I know that someone here told that this noise has been fixed, but this isn't the case.

Attack bug: There is an error in sound playback on the attack in some situations.

To make it more understandable for Korg: "in some situations" could be changed in "(depends on the speed a sound gets triggered and if the part is set to mono or poly mode)"

The units should have the ability to chain patterns together.

As I mentioned before, please add something like "(to gain longer patterns than just 4 bars)". Otherwise Korg could missunderstand this feature (song mode) like someone here in the forum did.

Add the ability to copy/paste bars/notes around the whole machine.
Add the ability to copy chords and notes in step edit.

Maybe delete "Add the ability to copy chords and notes in step edit", because it's already a part of the other request?

Revise display screen to display more information (knob values, FX info, etc) - minimum waveform representation on the screen - for quick editing.
On-board Graphical Sample Editor (similar to Gadget-Bilbao).

Maybe merge this 2 requests, because "On-board Graphical Sample Editor (similar to Gadget-Bilbao)." is the same like "waveform representation on the screen - for quick editing."?

Add the ability to be able to enter notes or chords in sequencer mode.
Add step record function (step note entry)

It's possible that I missunderstood, but is there any difference between this 2 requests? Maybe delete "Add step record function (step note entry)"?

For all the issues with just 1 vote: I also think they shouldn't be in the petition to have it more compressed/better focus.

thebiglebowski · Post by **thebiglebowski** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:45 pm

h.vel wrote:
thebiglebowski wrote: Voice Stealing:

I don’t think it is something that can be „fixed”.
This could be "fixed" for shure. The E2 has 24 voices, even if just 9-10 monophonic parts (with muted FX, no filter, no envelope...) are playing it already cuts the voices!

I've made many tests with voice stealing and the voice stealing has almost nothing to do with "polyphonic" parts (remember they are paraphonic, something different).

The main problem with voice stealing is that: 1.) muted parts are still eating CPU power! That means: even if you have just 1 track playing (and 9 tracks are muted) there is already voice stealing, this is absolutely unnecessary! 2.) also muted IFX take a lot CPU. Usually you need maybe 4-8 activated IFX in a pattern, but the Electribe always calculates all 16 IFX.

This is just bad programming and easy to fix! If Korg just would fix that muted stuff needs no CPU power, I expect that we could have 16 simultaneously parts (with maybe 3-4 IFX).

With your "overall comment" I agree.

OK, I take my comment back. You explained that very well, and that is exactly what was missing in the manual. I just don't know when and why voices are cut off. Processing muted tracks is definitely a bug. So maybe this topic would need a more detailed explanation instead of just saying „fix this”.

Loudest · Post by **Loudest** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:05 pm

Please, let Korg decide what is possible or not possible to do.
Truth is, we don't know anything about that.

We just have to collect some good ideas for improvements
and make this petition as clear as possible

Cade · Post by **Cade** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:50 pm

Ok. I incorporated the comments and suggestions. I really appreciate it.
Here is the latest:

Help make an update for the New Electribes a priority for Korg Inc.

The Korg Electribe series is a Digital analog modeling synthesizer was first produced in 1999. Through the years, the Electribe series helped define an entire generation of dance music. The Electribe 2 and Electribe 2 Sampler are digital Music Production Stations that were released in 2014. They were created using Korg’s latest modelling technology, have an effect for every part, paraphony, Korg's famous kaoss pad, and velocity–sensitive drum pads. With this release, fans of the Electribe series were hopeful that the new instrument would live up to the legacy that the predecessor established.

Unfortunately, when the machine was produced, it seemed that some important features were missing. While several of these issues have been addressed in software updates, there continues to remain a substantial list of issues and improvements to address. The user community is recommending improvements to help dramatically improve the instrument, and bring it to the level of “true professional equipment.”

Many Electribe 2 owners are frustrated in this lack of functionality that has led to a problematic workflow, hindered features, and the inability for use in live situations.

These are the current issues and problems:

-Voice Stealing: Unfortunately, even when no fx and no polyphony is activated on the unit, just 10-11 tracks can play simultaneously without voice stealing. It doesn’t seem logical that muted parts use CPU power and steal voices even when not playing and muted IFX take up CPU. Typically you need maybe 4-8 activated IFX in a pattern, but the Electribe seems to unnecessarily calculate all 16 IFX. This needs to be fixed.
-Note cutoff on pattern change: When switching patterns, the notes from the previous pattern are cut-off. This causes issues with the live-playing capability that the units were designed for.
-Attack/re-triggering bug: There is an error in sound playback on the attack when notes are played consecutively with quick repetition (depends on the speed a sound gets triggered and if the part is set to mono or poly mode). This needs to be fixed.
-Knob (filter) improvements: There is a significant amount of "jumping" when trying to adjust the knobs in small increments. This could be improved with improved tracking of the knobs, or greater resolution of the filters.
-Song mode is lacking: One of the greatest features of the predecessor (older electribes) was the ability to create entire songs by setting the unit to automatically play patterns in a specific order to build a complete song. These new models need this feature.
-Fix Noise (high pitched noise [~13kHz]) when audio in is enabled and power save mode is enabled on the unit.

These are the current recommended improvements:

+Revise the manual to include details about MIDI implementation and the unit’s voice architecture.
+Revise the arpeggiator to include Up/down, random, and scales.
+Improve the step sequencer as the current workflow is clunky and easily remedied. At minimum, make the step sequence menu circular so you can left arrow from the on / off screen to the velocity screen. Far better, use the track pad to enter gate and velocity in the sequencer mode (front panel) without menu diving. A last alternative would be to implement a step record function as was present in previous Electribes.
+Pads should blink in Mute mode.
+Send CC automation values to MIDI out.
+Unit should have synced step jump so it stays in time on release.
+Add the ability to loop individual bars.
+Add the option for per part play speed - allow a single part to be played at half speed / quarter speed or other option.
+Set velocity numerically for each part; 1-127.
+Add the ability for streaming of samples directly from the SD card (potentially increase sample memory).
+Revise display screen to display more information (knob values, FX info, etc) - minimum waveform representation on the screen - for quick editing.
+Add the ability to copy/paste bars/notes around the whole machine (from one pattern to another).

Sign this petition to help make the software updates for the Electribe 2 and Electribe 2 sampler a priority for Korg, Inc. We are requesting that they address the problems with additional updates so we can make the most of this incredible machine.
-end-
Does anyone know who the Chief Digital Engineer is at Korg?

h.vel · Post by **h.vel** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:31 am

Hi Cade, thanks for the update. It seems that you just mentioned the issues with 3 votes and more. I've counted the votes and it looks like that you maybe forgot some...

9. per part MFX send level (5 votes)
17. the ability to be able to enter notes or chords in sequencer mode (3 votes)
45. direct access to editing various modifications/parameters of each step (4 votes)
52. Decay and release could be separated (for release press shift) (3 votes)
65. synced step jump so it stays in time on release (3 votes)
74. pre listening before loading samples (4 votes)
76. When changing a parameter the display should show if the current value isn't the original value anymore (like on the EMX/ESX) (4votes)
82. Add pattern-chaining, for longer patterns than just 4 bars (7 votes)

Is there a reason why you don't have this requests in the petition anymore?

Cade · Post by **Cade** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:01 am

h.vel wrote:Hi Cade, thanks for the update. It seems that you just mentioned the issues with 3 votes and more. I've counted the votes and it looks like that you maybe forgot some...

9. per part MFX send level (5 votes)
17. the ability to be able to enter notes or chords in sequencer mode (3 votes)
45. direct access to editing various modifications/parameters of each step (4 votes)
52. Decay and release could be separated (for release press shift) (3 votes)
65. synced step jump so it stays in time on release (3 votes)
74. pre listening before loading samples (4 votes)
76. When changing a parameter the display should show if the current value isn't the original value anymore (like on the EMX/ESX) (4votes)
82. Add pattern-chaining, for longer patterns than just 4 bars (7 votes)

Is there a reason why you don't have this requests in the petition anymore?

Yep. Some just sound like whinging a bit, I also deleted a few of them today when I did some cleaning up on my master list, or combined them with others, and some I thought may be difficult to implement. Thanks for keeping track. I'll put them back.
Also, if you see any remaining with less than a few votes, or ones that should be removed. Please let me know.

9. (per part send MFX) just trimming for size
17. (notes in seq mode) honestly, I guess I don't care about notes in seq mode when MIDI woks fine for me in "record" mode
45. (direct access) honestly, I thought this was a far-shot
52. (decay-release) just trimming the list for size {ie: I don't mind them both under one control} put it back
65. (synced step jump) just trimming the list for size {ie: I don't care if step jump is synced}
74. (pre listening) honestly, I thought this is unnecessary, or I don't fully understand. When I select a sample, it just loads onto the pad, I hit the pad to hear what the sample is before moving on with the track. Is it that we want the sample to be held in RAM prior to loading onto the pad? Is it that "pre-listeninig" is like "autoplay samples" ? Then there is just an (unnecessary, imo) extra button push to "load" after listening.
76. (display) I thought it was a bit wordy and maybe should be re-written. I put it back
82. (pattern chaining) I thought the longer comment about "song-mode" covered pattern chaining. guess not, It's going back on

I put those back in, but still feel like we need to trim a few requests, and clarify (expand) other points.
Ok. I incorporated the comments and suggestions. I really appreciate it.
Here is the latest:

Help make an update for the New Electribes a priority for Korg Inc.

The Korg Electribe series is a Digital analog modeling synthesizer was first produced in 1999. Through the years, the Electribe series helped define an entire generation of dance music. The Electribe 2 and Electribe 2 Sampler are digital Music Production Stations that were released in 2014. They were created using Korg’s latest modelling technology, have an effect for every part, paraphony, Korg's famous kaoss pad, and velocity–sensitive drum pads. With this release, fans of the Electribe series were hopeful that the new instrument would live up to the legacy that the predecessor established.

Unfortunately, when the machine was produced, it seemed that some important features were missing. While several of these issues have been addressed in software updates, there continues to remain a substantial list of issues and improvements to address. The user community is recommending improvements to help dramatically improve the instrument, and bring it to the level of “true professional equipment.”

Many Electribe 2 owners are frustrated in this lack of functionality that has led to a problematic workflow, hindered features, and the inability for use in live situations.

These are the current issues and problems:

-Voice Stealing: Unfortunately, even when no fx and no polyphony is activated on the unit, just 10-11 tracks can play simultaneously without voice stealing. It doesn’t seem logical that muted parts use CPU power and steal voices even when not playing and muted IFX take up CPU. Typically you need maybe 4-8 activated IFX in a pattern, but the Electribe seems to unnecessarily calculate all 16 IFX. This needs to be fixed.
-Note cutoff on pattern change: When switching patterns, the notes from the previous pattern are cut-off. This causes issues with the live-playing capability that the units were designed for.
-Attack/re-triggering bug: There is an error in sound playback on the attack when notes are played consecutively with quick repetition (depends on the speed a sound gets triggered and if the part is set to mono or poly mode). This needs to be fixed.
-Knob (filter) improvements: There is a significant amount of "jumping" when trying to adjust the knobs in small increments. This could be improved with improved tracking of the knobs, or greater resolution of the filters.
-Song mode is lacking: One of the greatest features of the predecessor (older electribes) was the ability to create entire songs by setting the unit to automatically play patterns in a specific order to build a complete song. These new models need this feature.
-Fix Noise (high pitched noise [~13kHz]) when audio in is enabled and power save mode is enabled on the unit.

These are the current recommended improvements:

+Revise the manual to include details about MIDI implementation and the unit’s voice architecture.
+Revise the arpeggiator to include Up/down, random, and scales.
+Improve the step sequencer as the current workflow is clunky and easily remedied. At minimum, make the step sequence menu circular so you can left arrow from the on / off screen to the velocity screen. Far better, use the track pad to enter gate and velocity in the sequencer mode (front panel) without menu diving. A last alternative would be to implement a step record function as was present in previous Electribes.
+Pads should blink in Mute mode.
+direct access to editing various modifications/parameters of each step
+per part MFX send level
+the ability to be able to enter notes or chords in sequencer mode
+Decay and release could be separated (for release press shift)
+Send CC automation values to MIDI out.
+Unit should have synced step jump so it stays in time on release.
+Add the ability to loop individual bars.
+Add pattern-chaining, for longer patterns than just 4 bars (revise event recorder?)
+Add the option for per part play speed - allow a single part to be played at half speed / quarter speed or other option.
+Set velocity numerically for each part; 1-127.
+Add the ability for streaming of samples directly from the SD card (potentially increase sample memory).
+synced step jump so it stays in time on release
+Revise display screen to display more information (knob values, FX info, etc) - minimum waveform representation on the screen - for quick editing.
+ pre listening before loading samples
+Add the ability to copy/paste bars/notes around the whole machine (from one pattern to another).
+ When changing a parameter the display should show if the current value isn't the original value anymore (like on the EMX/ESX)

Sign this petition to help make the software updates for the Electribe 2 and Electribe 2 sampler a priority for Korg, Inc. We are requesting that they address the problems with additional updates so we can make the most of this incredible machine.
-end-

jpeg · Post by **jpeg** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:02 am

how many sigs do u think it will take for Korg to acknowledge this?

Also how many sigs did the Dave Smith petition get?

DR.DR · Post by **DR.DR** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:33 pm

Thanks again for the organizing effort. Two cents - it is my opinion that the step sequencer block should be in issues and problems, not recommended improvements. Since that is a consolidation of lines, it represents many votes.

If I had my druthers, BPM LFO would still be in recommended improvements. The information is already in the firmware, just a matter of display.

Redmond Barry · Post by **Redmond Barry** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:12 pm

jpeg wrote:how many sigs do u think it will take for Korg to acknowledge this?

Also how many sigs did the Dave Smith petition get?

If memory serves, it was 600. I hope we can get 1k. A lot of people have avoided even buying these because of the issues, I imagine they'll sign it too.

thesigma · Post by **thesigma** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:28 pm

Redmond Barry wrote:
jpeg wrote:how many sigs do u think it will take for Korg to acknowledge this?

Also how many sigs did the Dave Smith petition get?
If memory serves, it was 600. I hope we can get 1k. A lot of people have avoided even buying these because of the issues, I imagine they'll sign it too.

I am one of those. I'll sign. Not saying I'll buy one, but let's see what they do.

Redmond Barry · Post by **Redmond Barry** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:33 pm

I'm one of those where I own the E2S and am waiting on buying the E2 to see what happens. I think there's plenty of people not completing the set because of the issues as well. I hope Korg realizes they stand to gain greatly by fixing these machines.

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Electribe 2 Petition help

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