Venting opinions freely, even if non-KORG pro

[RiotNrrd]

Well, there is this one guy who, well... he keeps showing up here in KORG Forums, and yammering all the time about Propellerheads Reason. He "claims" that he owns a couple of Korg products, but also says he hasn't even turned them on in a couple of years. It's just "Reason this" and "Ableton Live that" and "I like software better than hardware", and no one is censoring him or telling him to get lost. What's the deal?

In fact, I think he's even made the point once or twice that it doesn't even matter what instruments you have (!) - that the music one produces is the only thing of any importance whether you have an OASYS, or a plastic bucket and a stick. I mean, that seems kind of anti-Korg, doesn't it? I don't think Korg even sells plastic buckets*.

Why do we even let people on this board who make claims like that? People who are so ego driven that they apparently care more about music than about technology pissing contests honestly have no place on a serious KORG forum. Korg isn't about music - it's about making really cool and expensive professional equipment that we can brag about owning.

So why is this jerk still allowed here, anyway?


* Although if they did, you can be SURE they'd be "pro quality".

[jazlover]

So why is this jerk still allowed here, anyway?

Well, he writes really cool music.....We give him a pass.....For Now......

[SG6]

I said I wouldn't jump back in here, but I have a few things to say further.

Sharp,
you took a rather mature way of approaching the problem. I agree that sweeping a problem under the rug isn't the best solution.
I apologize for my name calling. A little inappropriate venting, I guess.
You're right, we should be kind, nice and respectful. I forgot myself for a moment.

[MartinHines]

but I dont think that you should try to correct a persons way of expessing themself.

I generally try to avoid commenting on the way people make comments, except when I think they go too far. Pratically from the moment he joined the forum, Ricky Recordo started making numerous especially mean and disrespectful comments about Korg products. It got so bad with the OASYS that the moderators had to step in (if you don't believe me, just read all of Ricky's forum posts).

My key objection is I think people should be able present negative opinions in a nicer and less mean-spirited fashion than Ricky does.

Do I like his aproach, not particularly, but he is talking about a "thing" not a "person" so, it should be taken as, not person(al) but opinion no matter how harsh. Hear is the problem, he is actually talking about his instrument, but you are talking about him

I would agree with you only to a certain degree. One of the nice aspects of this forum (and the Karma Lab forum) is there are Korg employees and contractors who frequent here, many of who actually work on the products we are discussing. While I have never met these people in person (e.g. Stephen Kay, Jerry Kovarsky, Dan Phillips, Ski), I am very appreciative of the time they spend here given they aren't obligated to do so at all. It is a very rare situation in today's world where end customers have an opportunity to interact with people who have actual influence on how a product is created or enhanced. Therefore, I want to ensure forums lilke these maintain a "Korg friendly" vibe, because I like these "Korg people", I want them to stick around, and I think they deserve a certain level of respect.

"Korg friendly" does not mean one can not present negative opinions. It simply means a person presents those opinions in a respectful way.

Am I particularly sensitive to Ricky's comments? Yes, primarily since he has built up a whole "catalog" of disrespectful and mean-sprited comments.

As I stated in my earlier post, I am an advocate of RESPECTFUL FREE SPEECH.

I probably won't post anymore in this thread about Ricky, since I am certain I have communicated my thoughts in sufficient detail for people to understand.

[jazzman1]

Understood.

[sewa]

2: SG6.... Accusing a guy of having ego problems is not constructive, nor is it really respectful. There are better ways to suggest that someone is “passionate” about a given subject. Sounds much better doesn't it It's also much kinder and it shows concern in a nice way, rather than a insulting way.

I disagree; it follows the anglo-saxon political correctness concept but has hardly anything to do with reality. Being passionate about something is one thing, having one's ego out of control is another. I agree with SG6 and I appreciate the way he put it; not offensive but distinguishing between black and white.

sewa

[Kontrol49]

I often wonder why people get so inferior about other posters having an "Ego"on a Virtual Forum

The fact is you can have your own point of view and put it across as you like but don't expect everyone to agree with you,thats part of respecting your own opinion is to be compassionate about others views,even if they cross swords with yours

To get personal is pretty pointless really,Simply switch off the Computer and come back another day...there are far more important things in life than a few Virtual words..

The majority of Users in here are pretty tolerant,I have seen a lot worse on other forums and left because of the constant catfights,in general the Korg community of hardcore users are decent people

Rather than Air disagreements, for a more diplomatic point of view there should be a filter option whereby you can choose to Blank out a persons posts whom you dislike,I found this to be more advantageous and discouraged a lot of fighting amongst users,that way those with Egos were less likely to annoy others as they simply never read there posts

As has been seen in this post with Martin Hines He obviously annoyed somebody who took it at the first hurdle to have a dig back,which I don't really think is the correct way of doing things,as it creates animosity between certain users who wouldn't normally express an opinion in that way,and it gives others who do an oppurtunity to jump on the bashing band wagon

[ricky recordo]

Would it be "correct" for me to tell you in person:
-- your music completely sucks and you are a talentless hack
-- I know kindergarten students who can make better music than that
-- Many of my farts sound more musical than your songs
-- If you ever paid anyone for music lessons you received in the past you should get your money back because you were definitely robbed.

Would all of the above be ACCEPTABLE for me to say to you simply under the guise of "freedom of speech"?

Yeah, I'd accept any of the above if you could prove it.

Your response was sooo predictable, we all had a good chuckle here.

Thanks!

BTW I have posted a couple of original pieces - contrary to what you have said - in the SOTM section, one that I wrote for my kid... Allie's Song - done using GarageBand... and another called mr.peacock, done on just the PSR3000... oh yes, and "pointless noodling" - a short jam using a MicroKontrol to drive Pianoteq's excellent modelled piano. Could you not findany of them? How surprising you'd "miss" something "positive" that ricky's done...

Let us exhume then!!! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus ... dID=535571

I've added a lot of positive comments and presence here since joining about 700 posts back, dude... were they all that horrible?

Don't always focus on the bad - you might make me sad

AS IF

[ricky recordo]

Posted just in case Martin edits this line out of his original post in his trademark revisionary manner after reading the above post:

.
(or perhaps you would like to post some original pieces here, which you have never done).

Excuse me, Martin? How typically revisionary it is of you to alter the truth to suit your own bizarre purpose once again.

See link in above post.

Select piece.

Click.

Play.

Find 'em?

Good man.

Can you post a link to the original music that you've posted here at the forum... thanks in advance.

[ricky recordo]

Do I know you? What other forum names/monikers have you used in the past?
Please list the other forums in which you are a member and the names/monikers you have used on each.

Martin's always gotta go there, doesn't he? Ho hum...

I suspect many comments some people make would be drastically different if their peers/family/co-workers were aware.

I wouldn't change a word... my family coworkers, clients and even students are free to see all my posts here or on any of the other 3 fora I occasionally haunt, 'cuz I'm clean... squeaky clean... your allegations insinuations accusations mean NOTHING to them Martin.

Nothing.

They do bug me a bit though - in the way that a bad pimple sometimes bugs me when it just won't go away - because you constantly feel the pressing need to tar me, feather me, and generally "rephrase" my posts to make yourself look like the good guy, Martin.

Our forum members are clever enough to understand my posts without the need for your "translations".

[MartinHines]

Yeah, I'd accept any of the above if you could prove it.

MY POINT was one SHOULD NOT make statements like that, even if they were true. This is the idea behind RESPECTFUL Free Speech.

I noticed that you did not actually answer my question regarding the two scenarios I provided. To make it easy on you, I will frame this another way.

Imagine you, Ricky Recordo somehow ended up in a situation where you were sitting at a table with some of the Korg M3 developers, and they asked you what you thought of the M3. Would you REALLY say "sorry guys, but the M3 is a toy. I moved it to the room where I keep my Nintendo Wii gaming system, since both the M3 and Wii are so similar in form and function". Would you really say that to them directly, and if so, do you think that is a respectful statement?
Please answer the above question with either YES or NO

BTW I have posted a couple of original pieces - contrary to what you have said - in the SOTM section, one that I wrote for my kid... Allie's Song - done using GarageBand... and another called mr.peacock, done on just the PSR3000... oh yes, and "pointless noodling" - a short jam using a MicroKontrol to drive Pianoteq's excellent modelled piano. Could you not findany of them? How surprising you'd "miss" something "positive" that ricky's done...

I was referring to songs that you thought were finished and of professional quality. All of the songs I have seen you post always have some type of caveat like "just noodling around" or "rough sketch" or "monitored with crappy headphones", etc.. None of the songs you have posted appear to be "finished" from a professional music point of view.
[Note: They are certainly better than the crap I create, but I am not a professional musician, nor do I derive any income from anything music related, nor do I suggest I have any real pro music credentials at all].

I am not exactly sure what you do for a living, but I get the impression that at least part (if not all) of your income relates to music making, especially since you use the words "students" and "clients", and you have implied you have been doing this stuff for many years. If I were a professional musician, professional music producer, or professional songwriter and had earned money this way for a significant number of years, I would expect to have a large body of finished, polished professional music to post (similar to what one might put on a resume).

Aren't you some type of music professional? Please clarify your professional association with music for me. For example, do you earn your primary income as a musician or music teacher or music producer of some sort?

Assuming you are a "pro", are you really suggesting that you have only created FIVE songs in your entire musical career, and these five songs you have posted on Soundclick represent your absolute best work?

The reason I mentioned your songs at all is you seem to portray/position yourself as some type of professional musician, which you use to help support the validity of your opinions.

I have always been very upfront about my "lack of music credentials" (i.e. just a hobbyist with more money than talent), so how about presenting your musical credentials once and for all?

I wouldn't change a word... my family coworkers, clients and even students are free to see all my posts here or on any of the other 3 fora I occasionally haunt, 'cuz I'm clean... squeaky clean... your allegations insinuations accusations mean NOTHING to them Martin.

Ricky if you are so "open" then why don't you post your REAL NAME and provide us some links to your REAL MUSIC CATALOG?

You could easily post your real name and musical credentials and still be safe. The majority of professional musicians I have encountered are happy to provide real information about themselves and the work they have done.

I've added a lot of positive comments and presence here since joining about 700 posts back, dude... were they all that horrible?

Not all of your posts were "horrible", which is why I have made statements like the following:

I don't like how you voice your opinions because many of them are extreme and disrespectful

"Many" is different than "All".

Finally, I would classify your OVERALL presence as negative, not positive.

[ricky recordo]

ho hum

So you're saying that I've never posted a song, then oh yes I have but it's unfinished, then... admit that you lied about that and let's move on then.

I'm a semi-pro.

I have more than 5 songs.

Skype me and I'll write you one on the spot.

Speaking of not answering questions - Behold the Amazing Martin, King Hypo of Crite!

[MartinHines]

So you're saying that I've never posted a song, then oh yes I have but it's unfinished, then... admit that you lied about that and let's move on then.

When I said "please post some original songs" I was referring to you posting professional, finished songs, songs that represent your BEST efforts. Of course I realize you have posted a few songs. I myself posted a comment in your first SOTM thread about a potential new song suggestion.
Would it have been better if I had said please post your "Professional level" songs instead of "Original"?

** Update ** Ricky, just for you, I went back and added clarifying comments to my original post.

I'm a semi-pro.

Please clarify what this means. Are you saying for example that the majority of your income is outside music? What do you specifically do where you have "clients" and "students"? Are you primarily a music teacher (my mother taught elementary music for 47 years) who has a studio you rent out?

I am trying to get you to provide some real detail like (as an example):
-- I earn my primary income outside of music
-- I have played the guitar for x years and I have been giving music lessons for x years. I teach guitar, drums, xylophone...
-- I have a music studio I built in the back of my house and I earn income producing music and renting the space out
-- I drive a tractor trailer truck part time ("semi" pro, get it?) [this is a joke]

You should be able to provide information to the level of detail I requested above and still protect your anonymity.

I have more than 5 songs.

I assumed so, which is why I asked in the first place. I also assumed that those five songs do not represent your BEST, MOST PROFESSIONAL work. I am still interested in hearing a few examples of your professional finished quality work.

Skype me and I'll write you one on the spot.

Thanks for the offer, but I am interesting in hearing examples of your BEST WORK, your professional work, not something you crank out in a few minutes. Given your proficiency with your Yamaha PSR9000 arranger keyboard, I have always been aware that you have the capability to crank out a song quickly. Quick song creation is one of the primary functions of an arranger keyboard, yes?

Can you post a link to the original music that you've posted here at the forum... thanks in advance

I am a talentless hack and I have never claimed otherwise. I won't post any songs since none of my creations are worth posting. However, I have never professed to having any real pro music credentials, but you have. You have used words like "my students" and "clients in my studio". You have definitely presented yourself as a professional level musician, so posting your best work IS an appropriate request and has nothing to do with my lack of talent. If I earned income as a musician or had "clients" I should be willing to post my BEST work.

Speaking of not answering questions - Behold the Amazing Martin, King Hypo of Crite!

I try to answer all questions. Please point out specific questions that I have not answered and I will be happy to answer them.

[ricky recordo]

Yes Martin, funny semi-pro joke... I did drive a semi for a time in the 80s!

A long time ago I PM'd Daz, and went into some depth about what I do for a living. He was entitled to know, what with all the OASYS accusations and insinuations you were hurling at me even back then.

As far as I am concerned, what I do is none of your business. If you feel it is your right to pry into one's business - be consistent (it's a great quality as you recently said) and ask everybody else on the forum what they do as well.

The offer is still open: just ask and the virtual tour of the studio will be made availble for you once my daughter sets up Google Talk for me. At that time I will be able to show you around all my beloved Korgs and other stuff, and play a piece for you in the style of your choice for the asking. Improv is one area where I seem to shine (so they tell me).

I think that even in their rough form, the musical sketches that I have posted in SOTM do say something about my admittedly modest abilities as a musician. I don't generally make it a policy to post my music online, and in this sense I'm probably in the same boat with about 90 percent of musicians. It's not my thing.

Some of the work I collaborate on with clients has been well-received, but it's not my place to post such material.

If you like, I will compile a list of clients who have used my studio to bring their music to life. Once I have received their permission to do this, I will you PM links to their myspace accounts, where you will be free to ask any questions you like of them regarding my studio, my musicianship or similar pertinent topics.

I can do the same if you like and provide you a list of musicians with whom I currently work. Again, once I have received their permission, I will PM you links to their websites and you may happily pry away.

This will necessitate your actually responding to my PMs though

Sorry I can't take the time to scrutinize your last few posts, as I am actually at work right now and am being called to duty. Later on tonight - give me 'til I kick these guys out around 8PM - I'll get around to re-reading your posts and giving them the responses they deserve.

Semi-pro!!! Humour! That was nice to see, Martin!

[ricky recordo]

Yo, Daz,

In the highly likely event that Martin refuses to respond to my PMs, perhaps I could give you a tour of the studio instead and you could pass on to Martin any impressions you may have of it (or me).

You're a Mac guy, right, so you will likely have iChat, which I think my kid has set up on my MacBook. I think she's planning on doing something here with her friends tomorrow while I'm out facilitating my Tuesday Morning Music Therapy Club at our local Community Living center, so hopefully by Wednedsay I can give you the top to bottom tour and maybe share a virtual cold one with you as well.

Are you interested?