Korg Zero 8 Effects and Midi Clock

[Cyke]

I have been playing with this Cueing issue a bit.

The only way to Cue from Ableton is to assign the Cue output in the software to one of the eight mixer channels on the Zero8. Then you assign the Master output from Ableton to another channel. Next, you turn the Input dial for the channel you've assigned as the Cue so that it is in either (Audio + MIDI) or (Audio) mode. Then you click the Cue button on the mixer for that channel so it lights Orange. Make sure your up-fader is all the way down, or else the audio will play on the master. Then click on the Cue button in Ableton and it will play over the headphones which are monitoring that mixer channel on the Zero 8.

This method works, but you lose one of your MIDI control channels on the Zero8. You can't use that channel with Ableton or else the audio will play over the master.


The reason we can't cue properly from Ableton is because with the Korg Zero 4/8 we don't have the ability to assign audio from Ableton directly to the Master or Headphone busses. Instead, we are being forced to route the audio through the Zero4/8 mixer first. Essentially, we are having to run two mixers. (Ableton is acting as our mixer, and then we have to mix again on the Zero8)

An ideal solution would be for us to have the capability to assign directly to the Master Bus and Headphone Bus. Then we could bypass the Zero8 mixer and monitor the audio from Ableton directly without losing one of the MIDI channels. This way you could play and mix in Ableton, while recording in Ableton, play the audio through the Zero 8 without losing any of your 8 channels, and still be able to run a proper Cue.


What are everyone's thoughts? Does this sound accurate, or am I a complete retard who is missing something?


Honestly, I find this fairly disappointing. You would hope that in designing this piece of gear they would enlist the help of people who know and use programs like Ableton Live. But looking at this situation makes it hard to believe this was done. I don't see how anyone who uses Ableton to DJ could possibly overlook this Cueing snafu. We're not talking about some obscure feature that nobody uses. This is basic cue monitoring we're talking about here. One of the most important requirements for DJing.

+1
Mate, you are completely spot on here. I can duly confirm that i have spent a weekend playing around with Cueing and have not found a proper way to do it otherwise then you describe it.
Likewise for the solution, assigning directly to master would greatly improve user experience, and save us the channels offcourse!

Same goes for the MIDI issue. i could not get Ableton to follow slave settings nor any other midi application. If you hook up a regular midi cable , i could get my microkorg to follow tempo, but thats as far as I got.

So an OS upgrade would be a very welcome feature.

So were does one get support for this thing, caus it does seems like we jumped the gun a bit with our new shiny mixer.

When i start up the ZERO Edit software, whilst retrieving Ch Eq names, it tells me " Set Edit Mode Failed" Recv timeout.

I've been surfin the web and the korg sites, but havent really been lucky in finding anything usefull
to holotropik
where did you get the beta OS you were talking about?
can i have it please ?

[subterFUSE]

I have been e-mailing with Korg USA support.

But they said the Cueing issue is normal operation for the Zero8.

In regards to the CUE/MIDI setting, this is normal behavior. When a track is set to MIDI, the fader becomes a MIDI controller rather than a channel fader. As such, your headphone mix will need to go on an Audio or Audio/MIDI channel. One of the nice things about the Zero8 is the significant amount of MIDI control added by the 4 assignable banks located above the touch screen. While you will lose a few MIDI controls on your Audio/MIDI channel, you can use the control banks to control various other parameters.

The point I am making is.... what if I don't want to use any of the 8 channels as an Audio or Audio/MIDI channel? What if I want to use the Zero8 as an 8 channel pure MIDI controller? If I do this, it means I can't use a headphone cue at all.

Poor design, IMO. It's obviously not the end of the world. I've got 7 other channels to use as MIDI. But it is an annoyance.

[holotropik]

I dont have the Beta OS, I was told a rep here in Australia has it and is working with Korg before its released.
I only got the info I posted here from the reseller I purchased from.

[Proof]

(just got my Zero 8 - hello all)

The thing is - I can see from Korg's point of view - its not a hardware issue.

The workaround works - but yes, from a 'users' point of view - its a design or workflow issue - anyone using it primarily with a digital system, Ableton, Tracktor, Cue, Virtual DJ - are all going to want it to work this way.

Being primarily a DSP based unit, it would seem to be a matter of Coding, but Korg needs to see that this change would be a major improvement on the way the routing current works.

I'm not DJing off the unit, I am using it essentially as a controller for live set - and part of that is the desire to have effects over the master bus - the inbuilt effects on the unit dont cut it, and dont allow me, for example to put a master limiter over the whole mix - which is something I would like to do - 'mastering' prior to sending it out...

I have ended up having 7 channels feed to A on the Crossfader, feed back into Ableton, through a 'master channel' and back out through the eight channel - to crossfader side B... What I would really like to be able to is the same as above - basically patch the 'main' out of Ableton to the output of the Korg.

Admittedly, I could just use it as a midi controller - and not run the audio out through the desk - but the visual feedback on the channels is useful, and desired.

holotropik - while the internally adjustable gain structure will help regarding the noise-floor - it wont stop the fact it still hisses even when there isnt anything plugged in - there is some sound in there from what sounds like the Firewire Bus...

Actually - just thought of a workaround for what I am doing - but its still just that - a workaround...

[subterFUSE]

Need some help.


It is my understanding that the Zero8 can send MIDI clock to Ableton Live, and then we can sync Ableton to that clock.

This should mean that we could potentially beatmatch Ableton to an external audio source like Vinyl or CD.

I have set the preferences in Ableton to sync with an external MIDI source, but I can't get this feature to work.

How do I get Ableton to sync up to the MIDI clock from my Zero8?

[grrrant]

Need some help.


It is my understanding that the Zero8 can send MIDI clock to Ableton Live, and then we can sync Ableton to that clock.

This should mean that we could potentially beatmatch Ableton to an external audio source like Vinyl or CD.

I have set the preferences in Ableton to sync with an external MIDI source, but I can't get this feature to work.

How do I get Ableton to sync up to the MIDI clock from my Zero8?

Seems like it would be a setting in the MIDI prefs in Ableton?

I'm not even this far along though. I'm still trying to work out a decent MIDI map for controlling Live with my Zero 8...

[subterFUSE]

I got the MIDI sync working now.

The next order of business is figuring out how to launch clips while the External sync is in action?

To be continued.......

[miim]

Hey sub nice to hear you're progress. I ordered my z8 in July, not sure when it will come to Canada. I've been reading up on those that have theirs (z8&z4) in here and over @ aldj. I was wondering if you could make a vid and post it on youtube or something, I want to this thing in action. The stuff I've seen so far just doesn't show enough. Thanks.

I am disappointed in korgs failure to notice this cue problem. you would think it would have been at the top of the list (being a "DJ" mixer). This just makes me shake my head and wonder how they missed this. Well all I can hope is they've fixed the problem (Firmware) and I will receive the new updated version. Lets hope they get their act together soon.
MO

[elviscat]

I agree, its pretty ridiculous that this mixer was delayed for 2-3 months and we still have this problem. Like you said, its a basic function of DJing, not some obscure feature.

I for one pray this problem can be fixed with a firmware update. Could anyone post a picture of the Audio I/O config within the Zero Edit Software? Hopefully they can simply update this software to include headphone/master bussing options, much like every other sound card on the market.

Please hear our cries Korg! I want to give you my $1300 but its kind of hard when I can't even cue what I need to!

Not sure though m8, cause if you were using it with vinyl/CDj > midi clock > ableton, you would want to monitor through the mixer not ableton, i'm guessing your talking about a complete ableton setup!!

[subterFUSE]

I agree, its pretty ridiculous that this mixer was delayed for 2-3 months and we still have this problem. Like you said, its a basic function of DJing, not some obscure feature.

I for one pray this problem can be fixed with a firmware update. Could anyone post a picture of the Audio I/O config within the Zero Edit Software? Hopefully they can simply update this software to include headphone/master bussing options, much like every other sound card on the market.

Please hear our cries Korg! I want to give you my $1300 but its kind of hard when I can't even cue what I need to!

Not sure though m8, cause if you were using it with vinyl/CDj > midi clock > ableton, you would want to monitor through the mixer not ableton, i'm guessing your talking about a complete ableton setup!!

Correct. My point is that if you are like me, and play primarily in Ableton, then what you want is an 8 channel MIDI controller.

But if you want to use a headphone cue, then you must give up one of your channels to Audio.

This is a minor annoyance. Not the end of the world, but surprising it was not considered an issue during development. You know Korg must have talked to some Ableton users during testing. I am just surprised nobody brought this up, that's all.

[Proof]

Thats it...

The change would turn the unit from...

'oh, I see how I could adapt this to use it completely digital'

to

'Damn! this thing is designed just how many live acts want to use it!'

[subterFUSE]

Well..... I don't know about that.


The Zero8 is supposed to be a varsatile machine, which it honestly has accomplished. Live acts can use it, DJs can use it. You can play vinyl, CD, or digital formats like Ableton Live or Traktor.

All I am saying is.... it would be nice if the Master bus and Headphone bus could be available to the user for routing audio directly, bypassing the Zero8's mixer. This sort of setup makes more sense when using the Zero8 and a soundcard/MIDI controller and not as a mixer. It would allow you to use all 8 channels as MIDI controllers while still being able to run master audio and a headphone cue separate.

[Cyke]

Hi all, welcome to new z8 users, its nice to have some form of reference building up.

still quite happy about my purchase, it still feels like christmas when i turn it on ^^

I am keeping my hopes up that Korg will see the advantage of incorporating the Cue assignment, as it would be a genuine plus ..

I got the MIDI sync working now.
The next order of business is figuring out how to launch clips while the External sync is in action?
To be continued.......

would you mind elaborating on that ? i could not get Live to receive any input, maybe post a screen of your midi settings?
What issue does launching clips pose then ?
I have 4 faders assigned to 4 ableton channels, which for me is more then enough to mix with ... setting another channel or two to line/cd or phono, gives you the four fader channels to assign/midimap the start/stop/scroll controls so you can launch/control clips, or am i missing your point here?


Too bad the beta OS isnt circling around yet, i'm quite anxious to get my paws on that ^^
Being from Europe, i cant get into korguksupport nor usa, i get sent to some vague rep in the netherlands who hardly ever heard of the zero8

grant,
If you like i can post a template as to how i setup my z8, its only a rough draft but im glad to help if i can.

[mrideas]

Hi I'm very new here so forgive any ignorance...

I'm looking to buy a Z8 later this year, and use it for both dj'ing (Live&cdj's/vinyl), and production.

I'm reading through the issues, and can see this cue'ing problem as a fairly important one to get around. (for ableton that is).

As an idea/question, is it worth trying to cue via another option such as the soundcard on the PC we are connected to? I see the issue (as a newbie), being that we are trying to do two different things at once with Abelton and the Z8 ie using it as a dj mixer but expecting it to 'listen' to the cue'ing inside ableton, where all the midi is going to. So I kind of understand where the problem stems from.

Is it possible to set up the z8 as midi controller to control Live, but cue from Live via the PC soundcard (possibly via firewire card without headphone out), but also use the Z8 to mix cdj/vinyl, and moniter that mix via Live, by routing the output of the cdj's through the Z8 at into the main mix?

Does that make sense?

Cheers.

[subterFUSE]

Hi I'm very new here so forgive any ignorance...

I'm looking to buy a Z8 later this year, and use it for both dj'ing (Live&cdj's/vinyl), and production.

I'm reading through the issues, and can see this cue'ing problem as a fairly important one to get around. (for ableton that is).

As an idea/question, is it worth trying to cue via another option such as the soundcard on the PC we are connected to? I see the issue (as a newbie), being that we are trying to do two different things at once with Abelton and the Z8 ie using it as a dj mixer but expecting it to 'listen' to the cue'ing inside ableton, where all the midi is going to. So I kind of understand where the problem stems from.

Is it possible to set up the z8 as midi controller to control Live, but cue from Live via the PC soundcard (possibly via firewire card without headphone out), but also use the Z8 to mix cdj/vinyl, and moniter that mix via Live, by routing the output of the cdj's through the Z8 at into the main mix?

Does that make sense?

Cheers.

I don't think this is possible. In the Ableton Prefs, you can only select 1 soundcard at a time.