Do we really have to wait....

[jerrythek]

I find it confusing that some will complain about the M3 not offering HUGE sample RAM, and then complain about having to load sounds into it.



And "generic" sample libraries will not be programmed to take advantage of the specific voice architecture of the M3 - Korg programmers make full use of all the nuances of the EDS synthesis and the onboard controllers - this will not happen with loaded libraries. So there are some clear advantages here.

I understand your issue of liking instant-loaded ROM expansions, but that is simply not the path we took. Boards like that are also more expensive to create/produce, so this method will give us advantages in providing content to you. No system is perfect, that is for sure.

Jerry

[MartinHines]

And those paper facts are telling me that a fantom beats the hell out of a m3.

You should probably consider buying a Fantom then.

Now korg is making a giant step back, giving as this joke of an expansion.
I hope, nobody will buy this.

Of course people will buy them.

Korg is definitely taking a different approach, but I think people should wait to see what unfolds.

One of the problems of physical expansions are their expense. The old EXB-PCM boards for the Triton were $199 EACH. I spent over $1,400 to max out my Triton Studio (in addition to the cost of the TStudio itself). Roland SRX boards are $269 EACH, which would cost you $1,076 to max out the Fantom keyboard, or $1,614 for the Fantom XR rack (in addition to the keyboard or rack).

Without having to physically manufacture hardware boards, hopefully Korg will be able to release EXB-PCM-USB expansions faster and at a lower price than hardware versions.

[synthdogg]

I'm making some assumptions on how the Korg expansions will work here, so let me get that out of the way up front. I'm assuming that Korg is really just releasing sound libraries for the M3 that include custom samples, as opposed to the classic "expansion board".

Fantastic! Count me in...thanks Korg. I always thought the expansion boards were a PITA personally. Roland JV, Fantom, Korg Triton, whatever....I always owned more expansion cards than there were slots in the instrument. Which expansion cards do I need loaded up today? Crap, let me break out the screwdriver, pull out the keyboard and flip it over (or unrack the module...ugh...). Total pain. So now, I can just load the sounds I want with no hardware hassle???? (here's the assumption...) And I can save my favorites together as one "Performance bank"?

Cool. I'm on board.

[sani]

I find it confusing that some will complain about the M3 not offering HUGE sample RAM, and then complain about having to load sounds into it.

Korg, as any other company cannot provide all those specific sounds we need sometimes. Every country has its own ethnic instruments which are not covered by the stock rom. Besides that, some people are not always satisfied with the stock samples: that's what in my eyes the sample ram is for. I'm of course talking about live playing.
Expansions in the usual, normal way provide immediate access to new and often better sounds than what you have in stock and that is the biggest advance.

And "generic" sample libraries will not be programmed to take advantage of the specific voice architecture of the M3 - Korg programmers make full use of all the nuances of the EDS synthesis and the onboard controllers - this will not happen with loaded libraries. So there are some clear advantages here.

Most "generic" sample libraries actually contains programs for the platform they are released for. Sorry, I don't see a difference. You could release it on a cd. Isn't a cd cheaper than an usb stick?

You should probably consider buying a Fantom then.

Martin,
if I make a comparison with another model to make a point, than please let me do it without unnecessary comments like the quoted one. There is probably a reason why I don't use a fantom and why I play korg for 16 years, but it doesn't mean that I must not mention it for a comparison.

[jerrythek]

And "generic" sample libraries will not be programmed to take advantage of the specific voice architecture of the M3 - Korg programmers make full use of all the nuances of the EDS synthesis and the onboard controllers - this will not happen with loaded libraries. So there are some clear advantages here.

Most "generic" sample libraries actually contains programs for the platform they are released for. Sorry, I don't see a difference. You could release it on a cd. Isn't a cd cheaper than an usb stick?

I'm a bit confused by your reply, Sani. Earlier you stated:

There are already all kinds of sample cd's on the market.
Just buy them, load the samples into your m3 together with your own and save everything on one single stick. Isn't that more practical?

So I responded to that concept explaining why these "already available" CD's wouldn't maximize the possibilities of the M3. That's all.

Regards,

Jerry

[spinoria]

I find it confusing that some will complain about the M3 not offering HUGE sample RAM, and then complain about having to load sounds into it.



And "generic" sample libraries will not be programmed to take advantage of the specific voice architecture of the M3 - Korg programmers make full use of all the nuances of the EDS synthesis and the onboard controllers - this will not happen with loaded libraries. So there are some clear advantages here.

I understand your issue of liking instant-loaded ROM expansions, but that is simply not the path we took. Boards like that are also more expensive to create/produce, so this method will give us advantages in providing content to you. No system is perfect, that is for sure.

Jerry

I think this path was stupid because of the fact that the factory PCM-waveform memory exists in some kind of harddrive, flash memory or SD-card in the M3.

If Korg had decided to put in a big harddrive/flash memory/SD Card with lets say 2 gb memory (that's really cheap theese days) you could have easily install the PCM-expansions on this drive so users could have accessed them without loading any samples in RAM memory (just like the factory PCM-samples).

I think a strategy like that would have been both easier and cheaper for Korg to implement.
It would also have made many future upgrades possible to the M3 workstation.

Of course your strategy is to make as much money as possible and thats the reason you choosen the current solution. You hope that users will upgrade to the newest workstation every other year and I think that's a bit shortsighted.'

Of course most users wants RAM-memory for loading samples but I think most users want's to install PCM-expansion one time and then be able to access them immediately after powering up.

[spinoria]

Jerry, do you have a job opening for me?

I could provide you with the best solutions and architecture for the next workstation


Just kidding, I hope you don't take this personaly. It's great that someone from Korg does write some answers here in the forum.

I guess a lot of people finds the M3 to be a great workstation and I'm just not one of them. I'll wait for the next one.

[jerrythek]

Jerry, do you have a job opening for me?

I could provide you with the best solutions and architecture for the next workstation


Just kidding, I hope you don't take this personaly. It's great that someone from Korg does write some answers here in the forum.

I guess a lot of people finds the M3 to be a great workstation and I'm just not one of them. I'll wait for the next one.

No problem Spinoria - I can "take the heat" when required. I don't personally agree with your assesment, but that's the beauty of forums - the free exchange of commentary/ideas/reactions, even opposing, as long as it stay respectful.

And I don't think the job would work out for you - you're not ready to be as greedy as you seem to think we are!


Just kidding!

regards,

Jerry

[MartinHines]

As I said before, this new method of expansions MAY actually be better than the older methods.

Perhaps it might be best to wait to see how it all turns out instead of condemning them before any are even released. Under the old Triton EXB-PCM system, you paid $199 for each 16MB of Sample ROM, with a maximum installed additional Sample ROM of 112MB (assuming Triton Studio adding 7 EXB-PCM boards).

[John01W]

This is a bit disappointing. Not much ram available when compared to other modern synths.

One thing that will be(may be) an advantage....is if they use the compression(data compression which I imagine is lossless) like the m3s internal rom, they will probably fit a lot of samples in a much smaller space that only you're m3 will read...

So they may actually take up less ram...than conventional samples.

[dorremifasol]

PCM data compression in synthesizers is always LOSSY. The triton had no compression but for whatever reason (probably costs) Korg is returning to compressed samples in the M3.

[Francois]

You are wrong, some audio compression systems are lossless which I think Korg's own is.

[dorremifasol]

...

name a single lossless compression method suited to be decompressed in real time in a dsp or chip synthesizer, please. Have you ever worked with those things or are you only guessing on your own?

[r12]

samples in triton rom ARE compressed...
and also in m3 AND oasys

you can verify it by resample entire rom and look at the final size
it will take hours and hours to do and finally see that ratio is about 2:1

[Voltan]

AFAIK the samples in OASYS are not compressed...