M3 vs. Fantom-G vs. MotifXS

[Synthoid]

The G8's interface was the most familiar, coming from a Juno-G. The screen is pretty amazing. The sounds are also pretty good. As with the Juno-G, I found the usable synthy tones a bit lacking. If I were to get that, I'd have to do major tinkering (like I am now) to get the sounds to where I like them........somehow I generally expected "more".

Pretty much the same thing I heard from a couple salespeople today when I called around to ask about the "newer and better" Fantom. They also "expected more." Rather enlightening.

The Motif XS8... the keybed felt nicer. Not as heavy. Basically as everyone has said, the acoustic sounds were great, the synth ones were alright, and the interface was rather intimidating.

I've played a Motif a few times and actually liked it a lot. If I had a larger budget, I would have bought it and the M3.

Again, the thing is huge. Actually as big as the OASYS right next to it. There's no way I'm hauling something that big to and from practice every week.

Not many people lug an 88-key workstation around. It usually stays at the practice site, or they have help when moving it!

So, the M3. I liked the 88 key version quite a bit, but it's also big. And I preferred the synth action of the 61 key version. Perfectly weighted, really quick, slightly springy... basically ideal for my preferences. Between the 3, the sounds provided the best mix of everything I wanted. Scrolling through the Juno-G's patch list usually has me thinking "boy, I'll never use that, or that, or that, or that...". I got a similar sensation with the Fantom, and to a lesser extent the MotifXS. Almost every preset I tried on the M3 had me thinking "That would work great in this song, etc..."

As soon as I played an M3 last Winter, I had the same impression. Lots of great programs and combinations right out of the box. I do a lot of editing after the fact, but it's nice to have that much useable material to start with.

KARMA is worth mentioning. I'll admit, I never really got all the fuss about it. I always thought "yep, pretty cool, but what do you even need the keyboard player for anymore?". Well, I was off my ass. Seems you can kind of make it do as much or as little as you want it to. It startled me a few times going through the preset list (on the presets where it's automatically enabled), but I actually found myself improvising to a few things it spat out. I never improvise. I usually suck at it. And yet, KARMA brought something out in me. Not only would it be a great practicing tool, it might well help me come up with some new song ideas. So, with respect to KARMA... I get it now.

Karma and drum tracks sold me as well......inspirational.

So, enough beating around the bush: It looks like I prefer the M3..........when I have enough money, I'll have to pick up a 73 key M3 with the RADIAS expansion board.

It's great you had a chance to audition all 3. I hope you enjoy your new purchase.....when the time comes.

[EJ2]

Ok, eibbor. Much better. That was a decent report.
Cheers,
EJ

[ski]

Why not just buy both and call it a day? There, problem solved!

[Synthoid]

However an interesting piece of information shows that almost 3 in 10 Fantom G's sold are being returned which is supposedly a very large number from what I was told, and I know it has some people at GC raising their eyebrows and taking notice.

Is this information available online? I passed this along to someone who doesn't believe me.....anything in writing would be appreciated.

[synthguy]

For those who are still searching or scratching their heads over these boards, I thought I'd add in a few bits.

I just bought an M3-73 and EXB Radias a week or so ago, and am in love. For some reason though, my stereo line outputs are playing in mono, while the headphones are full stereo, which I have to see about in a bit.

The filters are fantastic, which is a big deal to a synthesist like myself. The envelopes are very expressive and snappy. The reverb is much improved. I have a feeling that the verb is better on the Yamahas, but the M3's verb is dandy. The waveforms are pristine. I want more drum samples, personally, but then, there is sampling. The keyboard is very nice. The pianos impressed the heck out of me, especially after I installed the new patches. The Radias is just over the top, wonderful for all your Moog (mostly), Arp, Obie and whatever needs. I think it needs those USB rom expansions ASAP, personally, as I always want more waves. As always, it seems that Korg has the best sound design team of the Big 4, except possibly for Kurzweil. Almost every patch is musical in some context. As a synthesizer or all arounder, I think the M3 is the best, and a good substitute for an OASYS. It's almost as deep, and I know I'll be learning things about it essentially forever.

On another note, I think patches would load faster if they used the same effects, so if you're into programming, creating a master effects rack for your patches would be a good idea. Lastly, I agree completely with those who say to get the longest keyboard possible. Five octaves with the incredible splt and layer possibilities, along with Karma, will make the thing seem cramped from the start.

The Motif XS's are very nice, although their stock patches underwhelm me. Invariably, I had to roll my own to get the most out of it, and it will deliver big time if you take the time to learn programming. Having 384 some odd megabytes of waves in ROM means lots of sound creating opportunity. The effects are delicious.

The Fantom G is a killer board too, but mostly due to the individual effects per multi slot. The waves are pretty much the same as the X's, which is fine really. It sounds like they use those same Fantom filters though, and while they suit acoustic sounds fairly well - at the 12db slopes, they don't serve as well in synth patches. A Fantom G would require a VA to handle the synth side in my opinion, like a Radias or something.

[Synthoid]

The Fantom G is a killer board too, but mostly due to the individual effects per multi slot. The waves are pretty much the same as the X's, which is fine really.

I spoke with a few salespeople on the phone last weekend regarding the new G, and they said it was basically a "Fantom Extreme."

The overall impression was.....the new recording features, larger screen, and piano are amazing, but the rest of its sounds are basically just "more of the same".

[eibbor]

The Fantom G is a killer board too, but mostly due to the individual effects per multi slot. The waves are pretty much the same as the X's, which is fine really.

I spoke with a few salespeople on the phone last weekend regarding the new G, and they said it was basically a "Fantom Extreme."

The overall impression was.....the new recording features, larger screen, and piano are amazing, but the rest of its sounds are basically just "more of the same".

That's basically how I felt. It didn't really feel like much more, sound-wise than my Juno-G. There are more sounds, but not more sounds I'd actually use. And considering I don't actually need any recording capabilities, that's of little consequence to me. The screen was gorgeous, but I think I'd rather have a lower-res touchscreen than a higher-res non-touchscreen.

And I didn't really care for the piano, actually. It sounded excessively bright and chimey to me.

[bctines]

Ski wrote...

Why not just buy both and call it a day?

Besides, they'll both pay for themselves.

[eibbor]

Ski wrote...

Why not just buy both and call it a day?

Besides, they'll both pay for themselves.

Heh, I wish.

Honestly, I think I'll hold onto my Juno-G instead of selling it. I can afford an M3 without those extra few hundred bucks. I'll basically have the same sampling of useful to me sounds as the Fantom G that way

[KorgSinceTheM1]

I finally got to see the Fantom G at a GC the other day. I've been happy with my X6 for awhile and wanted to see if the G would wow me and make me convert. The G is a great looking board and looking at the screen in person is like looking at HDTV vs. the X's. And the board is physically bigger than the X series. Felt solid also.

I liked the seamless patch changes while holding chords, something that was present with Rolands earlier JV, XP, and XV series. The mouse option is a welcome addition made it easier to get around the interface vs. the cursor and soft keys. Still no touch interface like Korg's? I wondered why touch screens were only on the V-Synth series and some of their high end digital pianos, but not on the Fantom series. I agree with 'eibbor's comment above about having a lower res touchscreen vs. a high res non touchscreen.

Roland was always on top of the expansion board concept since the JV series, I've owned and still own many of the SRJV80 and SRX boards, and it's basically what kept my boards or modules in my arsenal for many years. With the new ARX boards, I'm surprised Roland opted to have only two slots in the G series.

After perusing through the sounds, I'd have to agree with some of the recent comments here that it is rather like a 'Fantom Extreme'. Nothing really blew me away sonically as when I first heard the Oasys and M3. Don't get me wrong, the G does sound great, but as an X owner, I'm keeping mines and will play it to the ground.


On the other hand, if you never owned a Fantom or any of Roland's past workstations, the G is the one to get!

[Synthetica]

I have had an M3-61 with EXB-RAD since late last year. I picked up a G6 thinking I would end up keeping one or the other. After initial usage of the G6 I was going to keep both of them and now after a couple of weeks the G6 has been returned. There were several things I liked about it but not enough to justify keeping it. As mentioned, the screen is very good on the G6, I actually like the keybed better on the G6 then the M3, and sampling functionality seems easier to work with on the G6 to me. The sonic character and overall sound quality on the G6 was also very good. The onboard sequencer was very good, but I don't have a need to use it with my DAW doing that work presently.

The effect structure of the G6 is very weird to me, while they make it sound like you are getting alot of effects (22) in Live Mode (the equivalent of an 8 part Combi mode) you can only use 1 patch effect (pfx) per part and only have a total of 8 parts active at once, You can not use one of the 2 master effects(mfx) in Live mode. You then have a shared reverb and a shared chorus on top of that. So even though it says 22 you can really only use 8 in Live mode and no way to chain any effects like having a filter and a delay on a single part. In Studio mode (designed for sequencer use and also like Combi mode) you can use one of the 2 MFX. The other MFX seems to be mostly reserved for Line In effect usage.

When looking for sounds to actually use in whatever I was working on I found myself always going back to the M3 as I could never find the right sound I was looking for on the G6. Like others have pointed out there are very good sounds on the G6 just not alot I would use. A few other sounds that I really liked I could never actually use as they just screamed "I am using a Roland Fantom preset" for this sound.

It is also funny that after using the M3 for a while, I kept trying to touch the screen on the G6 with no results. That screen just begs to be a touchscreen. The G6 is also currently full of missing features and inconsistencies, that Roland have said will be fixed in coming updates so I can't really hold that against them too much as it is brand new, but I was suprised to see it actually shipping with some of the ommisions it has such as multisamples and sample import (which is very broke in the initial OS).

[sparkie]

I have an M3 now, and just tried out for an hour or so the new G. I also owned a Fantom X a while back. The board looks like it is well made ..quality etc. However I struggled to play sounds on it as it looks very complex and was confusing to understand just to play sounds. It has 16 pads which I really like but you have to do it(program the sounds,chords etc) manually..so I like how the M3 is already set up for you. The main thing I didnt like is the G doesnt have a Touch Screen..?? it is "back in time" using the push buttons or use the mouse. The mouse laying on a keyboard to select different things just doesnt im,press me at all. I kept touching the screen automatically from using the M3!! The screen is very high resolution with lots of colors and very sharp! But the letters look very tiny to me and was hard to read because of it..even though it was sharp and clear. To make it more confusing they changed the name of the programs to "Single" and they call layer/splits "Live" now. The sounds were really nice etc and I noticed some same name sounds from previous synths. Thats about as far as I got before the store closed.

[synthguy]

I spoke with a few salespeople on the phone last weekend regarding the new G, and they said it was basically a "Fantom Extreme."

The overall impression was.....the new recording features, larger screen, and piano are amazing, but the rest of its sounds are basically just "more of the same".

Very true. Roland has been touting the sample rom as "the best of the Fantom and SRX library." And those samples are really fine samples. The waves in all three synths - Fantom, M3, Motif - are superb, though some shine better than others. I prefer the strings in the Rolands and Yammys, though the strings in the Korgs are no slouch at all. I think Yamaha has the best drums and percussion, though you can pound all three in any style you want and no one will notice any lack. It's mostly a matter of nuance, though since I have all three, I have my bases covered. So on those extremely rare occasions my M3 sounds like it could use a hand, the hands are there.

The engine in the Fantom G is a little more refined and clear too. However, if you have a Fantom X, you have say 95% of the G. The same for an older Motif, especially the ES against the XS.

[bkboy]

Eibbor, you hit the nail buddy. Exactly my thoughts!

fantom-G looks like a spaceship with color screen, blue skipback sampling LED, orange square MPC style pads, silver finish (breathtakingly beautiful) compared to the weird looking M3 plastic, however, its the sounds, not the looks that matters...

fantom-g looks like it came from another planet, while the M3 SOUNDS like it came from another planet!

i am sure the next generation of Korg won't be so ugly since Korg must be fed up of receiving complaints about the M3 build and looks.

Fantom G looks like a geisha while the m3 looks like a sumo wrestler and sounds like a Geisha.

[Vadim]

I would put M3 or OASYS in the third place,
and Motif XS and Fantom-G in the top 2,
I have to check out Fantom-G if it's better than Motif XS.
I know Fantom-G had the best Sequencer/Recorder(software equivelent)
Motif XS has the best software integration and best sounds.
M3 is fun to play just for fun at home with KARMA.