Omnisphere anyone? Compared to Oasys?

[RC-IA]

the samples are huge, so very good quality, no aliasing detected. i will check it for the dsp rendered analogic waveforms if there is aliasing or not. so sound quality is a least equal to oasys, no problem, but hte library is quiet different, so excellent complement!

Note that sample size isn't related to aliasing.

- Dan

yep, i know, maybe i sould have not told this in the smae sentence

regarding pure synth waveforms (dsp rendered), i did not hear aliasing too.

what amazes me is that the oasys can play so much prgram in combis or seq mode, with poly6, ms20, hd1, etc....with a p4 2,8ghz. one patch of atmosphere would eat all this cpu...

[danatkorg]

regarding pure synth waveforms (dsp rendered), i did not hear aliasing too.

How did you test?

- Dan

[Kevin Nolan]

I've just received Omnisphere but have not tried it out yet (my apple computer went belly up and I'm awaiting a new one).

However - from what I understand from the Omnisphere demo video - and I'll be happy to stand corrrected on this - Omnisphere seems to provide polyphonic effects similar to Yamaha's EX5 FDSP (Formulated Digital Signal Processing) and V Synth GT's COSM, where independent instances of effects can be applied to each note. I know I harp on about the CS80, but actually - a feature common to both the Yamaha CS60 and CS80 (and I think the CS50) is their stunning Ring Modulator. With 5 faders available for realtime control of their Ring Modulators, all sorts of stunning effects are possible which have hugely defined the character of those instruments. But from what I understand, Omnisphere supports Polyphonic Ring modulators - which means a ring modulator for each note played, and where their features such as rate, depth and so on can be controlled by velocity response. If so Omnisphere should be capable of some astounding sounds, and beyond OASYS in this particular regard.

And as an addendum - even though Motif replaced the EX5, the FDSP technology in the EX5 is absolutely stunning and was alas dropped in Motif and buried by Yamaha. On the EX5, you can apply, for example, a polyphonic 'liquid water' effect which 'liquidizes any voice fronm piano to choir', producing gorgeous voices otherwise impossible. Roland's COSM is similar. So if Omnisphere supports similar polyphonic effects, it joins an elite number of such synths with the EX5 and V Synth GT which alas even OASYS (or indeed the likes o Access Virus, NI Massive and Kurzweil synths for example) have not yet implemented. If so, it looks like Omnisphere is a serious synthesizer in its own.

Kevin.

[danatkorg]

However - from what I understand from the Omnisphere demo video - and I'll be happy to stand corrrected on this - Omnisphere seems to provide polyphonic effects similar to Yamaha's EX5 FDSP (Formulated Digital Signal Processing) and V Synth GT's COSM, where independent instances of effects can be applied to each note. I know I harp on about the CS80, but actually - a feature common to both the Yamaha CS60 and CS80 (and I think the CS50) is their stunning Ring Modulator. With 5 faders available for realtime control of their Ring Modulators, all sorts of stunning effects are possible which have hugely defined the character of those instruments. But from what I understand, Omnisphere supports Polyphonic Ring modulators - which means a ring modulator for each note played, and where their features such as rate, depth and so on can be controlled by velocity response. If so Omnisphere should be capable of some astounding sounds, and beyond OASYS in this particular regard.

If I understand correctly, Omnisphere supports per-voice waveshaping and ring modulation - kinda like the MOD-7.

If you're interested in polyphonic ring mod, I'd roll up your sleeves and dig into the MOD-7! Up to 6 ring modulators *per note.*

- Dan

[Kevin Nolan]

Dan -

I didn't realise MOD-7 supports per voice ring modulation.

Phew! That's amazing. ( I better go read the manual properly). I find MOD-7 tough to program and have not gotten into it so far but fully intend to; but it really is a stunning synthesizer and this feature makes it even more exciting. The EX5 also has per voice ring modulation as one of its FDSP algorithms and it is one astounding effect. to me, ring modulation is to a synth what distortion is to an electric guitar.

Thanks, Kevin.

[danatkorg]

Dan -

I didn't realise MOD-7 supports per voice ring modulation.

Phew! That's amazing. ( I better go read the manual properly). I find MOD-7 tough to program and have not gotten into it so far but fully intend to; but it really is a stunning synthesizer and this feature makes it even more exciting. The EX5 also has per voice ring modulation as one of its FDSP algorithms and it is one astounding effect. to me, ring modulation is to a synth what distortion is to an electric guitar.

Thanks, Kevin.

For more info, see the Ring Modulation section of the chapter "Synthesis with the MOD-7: a guided tour," starting on page 338 of the Parameter Guide. It has step-by-step instructions for creating three different types of ring modulation-based sounds.

Best regards,

Dan

[RC-IA]

regarding pure synth waveforms (dsp rendered), i did not hear aliasing too.

How did you test?

- Dan

i played all the notes on my 76 notes oasys. as i said i did not HEAR it, maybe it's present, i don't know, but i don't care if there is aliasing no one can hear

for a complete test, you need an oscilloscop ? right ?

for me, omnisphere can cot compete with the big O. it's just a nice complement with a lot of "ambient" type waveforms, at the moment. and to be honest, i don't know if they (spectra) really needed all that 50 go library, same results could have been achieved with less memory, i think

[Kevin Nolan]

[

If you're interested in polyphonic ring mod, I'd roll up your sleeves and dig into the MOD-7! Up to 6 ring modulators *per note.*

- Dan

In the immutable words of Frank Barone - "HOLY CRAP"

I have just reread your post and realised I missed your central point - 6 Ring Modulators *per note*. That is truly astounding. It will be difficult, without serious sleeve rolling up (!!) to show just how incredible that it. This feature alone makes MOD-7 a gargantuan sound creation / design device. As just one of countless possibilities, you could have ring modulated oscillators modualting other ring modulators, velocity sensitive.

[kenackr]

Dan,

Has anyone at Korg (or anywhere else) ever done a full on acoustic demo of the MOD-7?

It seems that many of us may be missing much of what it can do.

If there is no demo to share with us, is there a list of features and capabilties that are written down in one place? There is no manual posted on Korguser.net under the Oasys.

Same for the MS-20. I realize there is a manual for the MS-20 but I haven't cracked the cover yet.

Is it possible to use the ring modulation in the MOD-7 with other sample based sounds HD-1 or samples that are imported? Or only with the MS20?


Thanks,
Ken

[kenackr]

Kevin,

I had no idea that the TV gurus had piped Ray & family to anywhere else.

If the theory of TV escaping into space is correct, we just might be in big trouble with any passing aliens!

Or maybe not?

Ken

[Charlie]

@rc: That was the kind of answer I wanted to hear. No aliasing - but not a "must-have" either.

Do other Oasians share this view?

[Daz]

The documentation for the MOD-7 and MS20EX would all be in the latest Oasys Param Guide downloadable from korguser.net (revision E5 IIRC). Despite being in the Param Guide, it's not all just reference type material; as Dan mentioned there is an excellent tutorial style walkthrough for the MOD-7 in there.

On the Korg websites there are a bunch of MP3 demos for the MOD-7. On korg.com for example, you'll find them by jumping to www.korg.com/oasys and then in then on the right hand side (in the box marked About the Product) selecting mp3 and then MOD-7 Demos. There aren't demos of all the many capabilities of MOD-7 there, it simply wouldn't be possible to demonstrate every combination of the synthesis techniques available.

Daz.

[danatkorg]

regarding pure synth waveforms (dsp rendered), i did not hear aliasing too.

How did you test?

- Dan

i played all the notes on my 76 notes oasys. as i said i did not HEAR it, maybe it's present, i don't know, but i don't care if there is aliasing no one can hear

for a complete test, you need an oscilloscop ? right ?

My general recipe for testing a digital synth's oscillators for audible aliasing is this:

1. Turn off all effects, and bypass the filters (or set the cutoff fully open). Turn off any distortion, including filter or amp "drive" if present. For now, also turn off sync, ring mod, and FM.

2. Solo a single oscillator, set it to a sawtooth waveform, and turn the frequency up as high as it will go.

Then...

3. Test A: play a chromatic scale in the top octave of the keyboard. If you hear a second, randomly-pitched lower scale as well - that's aliasing.

4. Test B: Hold a note, and move the pitch-bend wheel, lever, or joystick. If you hear extra pitches, or pitched noise that sounds like tuning a short-wave radio - that's aliasing.

5. Test C: Turn on sync, and create a typical swept sync sound. Now, try tests A and B again.

Note that with current technology, *all* digital oscillators alias to some degree. The question is to what extent the aliasing is audible, and which features include anti-aliasing measures. For instance, a synth might have basic oscillators with very good anti-aliasing characteristics, but then exhibit significant aliasing when sync is enabled.

- Dan

[Daz]

One thing I recommend checking out in MOD-7 is the waveshaping capabilities. I find myself using these in two ways :

1) To generate a more complex and dynamic waveform in a modulating oscillator. Following the classic DX model you would normally modulate OSC1 with OSC2 and then use OSC3 to modulate OSC2 to make it generate a richer modulation waveform than just a sine wave. Instead you can using Waveshaping in OSC2 to generate not only a richer waveform but also a dynamic one by modulating the waveshaper drive, leaving OSC3 free for more fun things. Even just this one basic technique can let you create some very interesting sounds with less complex programming and it uses less oscillators too, which in turn can be used to create richer sounds. The golden rule is that a sine wave driven into a waveshaper with a particular shape will generate a wave of that shape as the result and it will follow the pitch of the incoming sine wave.

2) Using the waveshaper as an effect rather than signal generator. They can be used to create subtle to bananas drive/saturation effects, emulation of electromagnetic pickups (guitar/EP), adding modulatable amounts of extra harmonics before your filter, or just weird synthetic effects.

Waveshapers are enormously powerful and very ease to use. As with PWM itself, apply delicately otherwise you can easily end up with noise and modulate for more interest results.

2c,

Daz.

[Daz]

Another thought from the "stuff I like to do in MOD-7" ...

To free up EG's for modulation of waveshapers etc. you can, where appropriate, just set the carrier oscillators to either use no EG at all or set them to use the Amp EG (you do this at bottom right of the OSC page). Their EGs can then be used elsewhere. It's great that you can do this and it's one of the things that really differentiates MOD-7 from something like FM-8.

Daz.