If Korg .....

[Charlie]

That was a tricky question and unfortunately there was no "No" without this judgement. Moreover without knowing what a Oasys II would do sufficiently better than one it's hatd to give an answer.

Nevertheless I've voted ... "No". Because I'm very happy with my Oasys I and don't regret having bought it. I find it hard to imagine that an Oasys II would be that much better than the current one. Yes, more Polyphonie, larger hard-drive, many improvements etc. - but the key for me is sound and that one isn't really limited by the current hardware. If an Oasys II would offer tremendous better sounds (which I find extremely hard to believe), I'd sell my Oasys I and get a new one.

[Ray]

I voted "no" on the basis of the poll question.

I love the Oasys and don't know what I'd do without it. And tech support in UK is second to none (thanks, Mike). But I am very disappointed that given my investment, future (real) improvements (particularly in the sequencer dept.) look very unlikely.

So no, I wouldn't spend nearly so much on a single DAW again.

[zolhof]

No, I don't plan buying another "main" keyboard for a long long long time. That's why I bought the Oasys. I'd definitely buy new EXI from Korg, was counting on that to tell the truth But no Oasys 2 or 3 or 4...

The only 2 cases I'd buy another Oasys is: 1) to replace a faulty one; 2) a lighter and cheaper 61-keys version for gigging (that's why I'm about to get a M3-61 or Tex61)

[Kevin Nolan]

I think KORG will have to demonstrate a lot more flexibility in the future in order to stay competitive. OASYS stands for Open Architecture Synthesis Studio, but OPEN for who ? Seems now that it's discontinued it was only ever OPEN for KORG and nobody else. Not even Stephen Kay can update KARMA if he wanted to without KORG.

The OASYS is a dream machine and I'm delighted with it, but the plug was pulled on it early and the limitations of the keyboard where never reached. We didn't even get any EXf expansions when they were part of KORG's advertisement for the OASYS and part of their promotional work.

In my opinion if KORG releases a Mark II I hope to god that they also throw a big bone to existing owners. An upgrade kit for a fee would be perfect.

Regards
Sharp

I know we've had this debate before, but to me OPEN does not mean actually 'open' in every sense of the word - to me, OPEN was a philosophy that allowed Korg to design in a new and unprecedented way, that delivered outstandingly in what continues to be an incredibly integrated system, incredibly upgraded over the years and with outstanding programmability and configurability. That's what OPEN delivered - it enabled OASYS to become a reality in a quite small technology company.

I believe that feeling somewhat aggrieved by Korg wrt OASYS is being a tad disingenuous to Korg and to what OASYS represents, incorporating an awesome feature set (still more than twice the raw power of any other workstation, five years after its release) with its wonderful philosophy. Nothing else available in hardware comes close; and I feel that arguably disingenuous gripes simply turn manufacturers off. It happend to Yamaha with the EX5 ten years ago - the user base griped hugely and it scared Yamaha off.

Beyond not delivering a more sophisticated interface to its sequencer; OASYS (and Korg) has delivered in every other department. You really need to step back and look at just how deep and broad its individual synthesizers are, it’s amazing multisample set is, its truly high-end DSP processors are; and then KARMA and the still amazing physicality - graded hammer action, joysticks, ribbon controller, control surface equal to dedicated DAW controllers, velocity sensitive pads, touch screen, incredible I/O, USB2.....

Just what do you expect a company of a few hundred people to come up with? Probably only a few dozen people were involved in the design and development of OASYS; yet it delivers stunningly in almost every department; and continues to perform at the very upper echelons of music technology and far and beyond any other workstation, bar none. Plus the added and unique ability to deliver huge polyphony and effects with near zero latency.

I realise I'm hitting back a bit hard here - but I really think those feeling negative about OASYS and Korg's attitude really need to pinch yourselves to remind yourselves of the 95% of OASYS we all simply haven’t used and exploerd yet. I'm convinced it's got depths to it simply not even on the radar for virtually all of us. Its THAT deep. I really believe that too many people take too much for granted with just how outrageously well equipped OASYS is. The low latency alone is priceless. Play 80+ voices on the stunning sound AL-1 Virtual Analog synth and you get 80+ voices back at you - whether triggered from the keyboard, pads, by Karma, the sequencer or remotely. That alone makes it worth it. Yes Arturia synths are awesome - but they simply eat up CPU power on even the best speced Mac. You won't get 80 voices latency free from CS80V, I can promise you that.

As one example - just how many new programs, combis, wavesequences, GE's, effects presets have we actually examined in real depth or programmed? Surely you would agree that we on this forum have been a little on the light side wrt programming its huge feature set. You may remember that I put out a call about a year ago for Mod-7 sounds and the return was low - yet in this one synthesizer alone we have immediate access to 200,000 DX/FM programs and the most awesome of synthesizer design engines around. The same goes for every other synth engine. Sit at OASYS as an MS20 and you have an amazing modular synthesizer with ridiculously high polyphony historically unimaginable and that Tomita himslef would have given his eye teeth for in the old Moog 55 days and that dwarfs the Korg 3100 and 3200. What other hardware synthesizer or workstation offers this raw and unadulterated power and flexibility? Not even NI Reaktor, FM8 and Abynth offer this yet because the computer doesn’t exist yet to offer such synthesis and with such high polyphony, such low aliasing oscillators and with effectively zero latency that OASYS delivers effortlessly.

I could start into equally deep analysis of Karma and KO software; and don't get me started on the built in effects - I mean EQ on 32 channels in sequencer mode, 14 inserts and 4 total/master effects; awesome algorithms including multichannel compression that gives Lexicon, TCElectronics and Sonnex a run for their money. To top it all, over 700 professionally designed effects presets given out free last year. I revel in the 32 or so TCElectronics presets in my Finalizer 96K, and here we have in OASYS hundreds of effects presets programmed professionally by Korg for free and for virtually every application conceivable - from compression of drums to mastering. Priceless, and transforms the OASYS as a production tool. Meanwhile it reverbs compete robustly with the TCElectronics, Lexicon and Yamaha RevX reverbs in my studio.

I mean what are you looking for? I simply cannot comprehend any gripes for this instrument - it is an outrageously specified, equipped and configured instrument. The first of us to fully exploit OASYS will be a rich person, its as simple as that.

Kevin.

[billysynth1]

I was initially very pee'ed off with Korg for stopping further developments with the O to the point where i swore i would never buy any Korg product again...I've calmed down since .

I was looking at OpenLabs Neko but I think I'll skip it. At this point I'll just hang around and see what technological changes take place over the coming years. I'm not even excited or desperate to see what NAMM has on offer this year. I'd be suprised if someone offered something superior to the O

I've spent too much money over the years updating to the latest and greatest synth...think i'll wait till 2015 before i ever buy again See what happens over time

I have not voted...

Billy

[Sharp]

Hi Kevin.

Your posts focuses on the existing OASYS and that's not the question being asked here at all. It's about would you buy a OASYS mark II if they released one and the poll speaks for itself on that regardless of how you personally feel.

Simply adding more of what you detailed the existing OASYS has is not enough. A future OASYS would have to have flexibility and also not be totally reliant on KORG.

You can be sure KORG know this too as for years they have watched the VSTi / DAW world grow and take a bite out of the workstation world.

I'm not saying they have to build an OPEN keyboard like Open Labs or Lionstracs. KORG are in a much better position to merge the two. The power of an OPEN keyboards with the function of dedicated hardware keyboard.

A merger of both technologies is the flexibility I'm talking about and I bet KORG are already work on something like this already.

Regards
Sharp

[vEddY]

Hi Kevin.
You can be sure KORG know this too as for years they have watched the VSTi / DAW world grow and take a bite out of the workstation world.
I'm not saying they have to build an OPEN keyboard like Open Labs or Lionstracs. KORG are in a much better position to merge the two. The power of an OPEN keyboards with the function of dedicated hardware keyboard.
A merger of both technologies is the flexibility I'm talking about and I bet KORG are already work on something like this already.

You know what's interesting? I actually expected them to go Digidesign way around 2007 - design and produce some kind of OASYS II PCI(e) card that we could install in our PC/Macs and run OASYS (keyboard) engines on top of it. I felt that with a price tag like the original OASYS PCI (around $2-2.5k), they could do two things - start the "transition route" towards more software/VST-alike business and earn some more hard earned cash. They could've pulled it off, and everyone drooling for OASYS (including quite a few OASYS owners) would've probably bought that kind of product.

Right now and for the past year, year and a half - that just seems impossible and improbable as a business case as well as on the technology level. Look at Digi - Avid layed more then hundred employees and right now times are tense while users are eagerly waiting what the heck are they gonna do next. With all of the rebates and everything that they're doing, it makes you wonder.

I would've love to see their "Legacy collection" expanded, as I've said here more then a few times. It already kicks some serious ass (both Digital and Analog) but Trinity, Triton, 01 - those are definitely the keyboards "to have", and would make a good investment as software instruments. Because hybrid and software way are the way to go. Now if someone would finally produce a decent line of master keyboards that weren't as ugly as CME VX-series but has the same functionality (breath controller, aftertouch, multiple MIDI OUT's) and a couple of more of them so they can also be used live (for example, let it be programmable, sort of like COMBI model, where you could use 4-8 external devices via MIDI so you can select that you want a program A49 from device 1, B35 from device 2 and stuff like that) ... that would be a hell of a start.

[Kevin Nolan]

Sharp -

Many of the (in my view misplaced) negative comments about OASYS and Korg shaping opinion on an OASYS 2, including yours, are based on the current OASYS and on Korg approach.

So I'm responding to what I believe is disproportionate negativity; and pointing out that with virtually all of OASYS's features remaining unexplored to date seamingly by virtually everyone on this forum at least; then any negative comments on OASYS (and hence a judgement on a potential OASYS 2) really need to be tempered against that, in my view. You’re doing injustice to OASYS and Korg here, and basing a vote on that, and I think that’s unfair.

But to add to this - I really do not get your or others gripes about OASYS and Korg. I can't understand what the actual problem is - the OASYS is simply outstanding when objectively examined; Korg's attitude has been brave and positive and any prospective OASYS 2 would be a good development, by default, because it would build on an existing amazing platform. OASYS isn’t perfect but the points made in my last post surely state the case for its superlative and currently unsurpassed quality.

As said before, I know I'm hitting back hard here - but while I too have my gripes; on the whole, OASYS, or Korg, are not given the credit they deserve. The perpetual calls for free upgrades; for 'open' to mean 3rd party development and so on are, IMO, unjustified. I mean, as just one example, apart from some stereo enhancer and MS-Processing, OASYS's DSP processing is far more capable than even, for example, top end Lexicon, TC Electronics or Eventide hardware DSP processors; while the number of algorithms available far outstrips even Sonnex and MacDSP software suites. In this one regard alone, OASYS is outrageously specified; yet there are perpetual gripes that more EXf's never materialised. Go use the ridiculously over specified processors already available; then see if you’re missing something.

I mean just what the are you looking for. I personally feel that we can have no grievance (as said - sequencer interface aside - though it even has very capable HD recording and stunning I/O so is far and beyond any other standalone workstation in this regard, still to date).

So I realy don’t get the negative arguments put. This thing is capable of awesome production, in a way utterly unique to standalone workstations right to this moment. Of course its limited, imperfect and so on and so on and was expensive, but all instruments are the same in this regard.

As for 'open' - just how many people do you think were ever going to develop for it even if open source, with just 2000-300 users. I think you need to get real on this front, and again, step back and look at what essentially a handful of really creative people in Korg managed to achieve, frankly against the odds. OASYS is open approach – they never said it would be a haven for 3rd party development.

But have no fear - I'm confident that a significant part of the reason for the cancellation of OASYS was the plethora of similar and broadly ill-founded negative comments across the field, on this forum and across many other forums during its production life - the same happened to the JD800 in the90's and Roland backed off from such amazing developments for years. So be careful what you wish for - I'm confident that anyone voting 'no' will get their wish because they are hammering another nail into the coffin for any future workstation development .

Kevin.

[vEddY]

I mean just what the are you looking for. I personally feel that we can have no grievance (as said - sequencer interface aside - though it even has very capable HD recording and stunning I/O so is far and beyond any other standalone workstation in this regard, still to date).

As for 'open' - just how many people do you think were ever going to develop for it even if open source, with just 2000-300 users. I think you need to get real on this front, and again, step back and look at what essentially a handful of really creative people in Korg managed to achieve, frankly against the odds. OASYS is open approach – they never said it would be a haven for 3rd party development.

But have no fear - I'm confident that a significant part of the reason for the cancellation of OASYS was the plethora of similar and broadly ill-founded negative comments across the field, on this forum and across many other forums during its production life - the same happened to the JD800 in the90's and Roland backed off from such amazing developments for years. So be careful what you wish for - I'm confident that anyone voting 'no' will get their wish because they are hammering another nail into the coffin for any future workstation development .

Kevin.

Pardon my intrusion, but the SEQ is not the only thing that's "lacking", to be completely honest with you. And yes, this is my own opinion which everybody has a right to, I believe

As a side note - I've gotten over the SEQ "issue" a long time ago and started working with a dedicated DAW in a studio so - no problems there. Although I used to beat the crap out of Trinity and Triton sequencer for fun and games But as a studio beast... This thing lacks in quite a few aspects. The first and the basic problem I have with it is the fact that it has no editor which - for example - M3 has. Yes, it doesn't have a USB B connector, but that could've been solved as well. Published MIDI implementation chart is basic at best. VGA connector could've been used for additional monitor hookup for something. How about streaming audio through built-in Ethernet port or Firewire? Nope, and no Firewire. Motif ES (2003) had it. OASYS was released in 2005.

Just my 2c.

P.S. As a live, performance keyboard ... it's still untouchable, period. By a mile.

[Sharp]

Hi Kevin.

Misplaced is hardly what I'd call peoples frustrations. This all hasn't popped up out of nowhere. People have been venting their anger and frustration on the forum for the last year and a half at this point. So it's not like people haven't thought about this and just decided to click on a poll for any misplaced reason.

Maybe everything that has happened is not as fresh in your mind as it is mine or others because it's just not as important to you.

I do think though that your picking up on all this from the wrong view point. You seem to think people are not happy when in fact everyone here loves their OASYS and none of their negativity is directed a the existing OASYS as hate or dislike.

It's about disappointment in KORG, frustration, the lack of updates as well as the question the thread asks in relation to buying an OASYS mark II.

So I'm responding to what I believe is disproportionate negativity; and pointing out that with virtually all of OASYS's features remaining unexplored to date seamingly by virtually everyone on this forum at least; then any negative comments on OASYS (and hence a judgement on a potential OASYS 2) really need to be tempered against that, in my view. You’re doing injustice to OASYS and Korg here, and basing a vote on that, and I think that’s unfair.

I strongly disagree because everyone here who has previously owned a KORG keyboard wouldn't even have to open the manual to operate 80% of the OASYS in depth on the day they opened the box for the first time.

Anyone who has owned a KORG keyboard in the past would know this because once you know how to use one, you can use them all for the most part. The OASYS is an expansion of everything people had already in the Triton Series plus the new enhancements. So your comment saying that virtually all of the OASYS features are unexplored by virtually everyone here couldn't be more wrong.

Sure there are systems like the Exi's which are totally new, but the picture your painting over all of everything couldn't be more wrong.

As for 'open' - just how many people do you think were ever going to develop for it even if open source, with just 2000-300 users. I think you need to get real on this front, and again, step back and look at what essentially a handful of really creative people in Korg managed to achieve, frankly against the odds. OASYS is open approach – they never said it would be a haven for 3rd party development.

So you basically blame the lack of sales as the reason for no interests.

What about the fact that KORG never put any information, FAQ or welcome note on their website to invite third party developers. Add to that the way the system works and the fact that nobody can do anything without KORG spending development time on the system as well, so there is clearly going to be a cost that all developers would have to pay for to KORG in order to bring their software to the OASYS.

Where if KORG had of simply included a VST Host on the OASYS, developers could have developed VSTi's optimised software to run on the OASYS and when KORG discontinued the keyboard, it would have made no difference really.

Now take into consideration the future of keyboard and the fact that there are now two companies producing true OPEN keyboards, and 4 producing sound modules. In the future how can KORG compete with that level of flexibility when their systems come with limitations that make their new keyboards outdated in areas the second they are released.

Take the OASYS Sampler for example. It does not support one single sample format that is in production by any developer. (except KORG's own sample format), and nor can their keyboards stream samples.

I paid 333 for a new V-Machine and by simply installing Sample Lord on it for 30 euro I could stream 64 notes poly off a memory stick and load Giga Files and other popular formats. If KORG had of added a VST HOST on the OASYS they could have done that too. I even installed the KORG Digital Legacy collection on it. Give me a KORG OASYS mark II with the ability to do that and I'd be blown away.

Regards
Sharp.

[Charlie]

Sharp, this are interesting ideas. It's a pity development was stopped because I believe such enhancements would still be possible given the current Oasys hardware ...

[Kevin Nolan]

Sharp -

I just happen to think that you, and others with gripes, are completely skewed in your appraisal; and yes - you are doing real damage to future for workstation development - comments from the user base matter to these companies. The OASYS user base and the plethora of nothing short of hate on other forums has, IMO, absolutely contributed significantly to its end of life, make no bones about it. It's happened time after time in the electronic music instrument market and it's happened to OASYS. I simply do not get it - but this sort of perpetual griping seems to come from a kind of 'culture' that floors instrument after instrument and it drives me nuts. and here it's happening all over again and I'll say it again - you need to see the wood for the trees here - you're way of the mark in your appraisals and opinions on this one.

Yamaha utterly abandoned synthesizer development largely to do with this sort of carry on; and now its happening with Korg and OASYS. I just don't think you get how precarious this industry is and just how difficult it is to sustain hardware like OASYS. The potential market is always limited; and here you and other are ensuring, for what are to me totally rediculous expectations and arguments, shafting OASYS and any possibility of future development.

Don't you get that all instruments have their problems and limitations? Don't you get that? If you do, why on God's earth are you looking for the impossible from Korg? They delivered a stunning, stable, far-reaching instrument the likes of which has never been seen before or since (apart from the Fairlight perhaps) and you're saying that you're frustrated.

You literally own the most sophisticated workstation every developed by a country mile and all you're doing is highlighting its limitations. It's simply disproportionately biased.

I've made a case over two lengthy posts outlining what I deliberately called 'outrageously good' features; but you and others point blank refuse to acknowledge these qualities in OASYS. I don't get it.

But I feel sad that this forum is descending into this sort of rhetoric - you're right - it has being going that way for well over a year and its a huge pity. IMO we could do with a healthy stimulus of people sharing hints and tips, programs, GE's and so on.

Kevin.

[Sharp]

Hi Kevin.

I just happen to think that you, and others with gripes, are completely skewed in your appraisal; and yes - you are doing real damage to future for workstation development - comments from the user base matter to these companies.

Man that's very harsh, unfair, and a total insult to me personally for a number of reasons. What would you like me to do, tell people that they can only say nice things from now on so we don't hurt KORG's feelings and risk them giving up making keyboards ?.

KORG are a company that listens to their customers and take everything on board. The OASYS you own today partly exists because of KORG listen to feedback and adapting to their customers needs. Be it good or bad, KORG take everything on board and it's why they are one of the worlds leading manufactures.

You having a go off me right now over this thread too is like you only know 10% of the actual story and sticking your two fingers in your ears when I try explain the rest to you. Your picking things up wrong and not listening to any explanations.

Kevin, in this history of forums dedicated to supporting KORG and the end users, this forum is the longest running and by far the best for quality, productivity, support and honest feedback. I cannot and will not...EVER. ... enforce censorship or spread the idea that people should never point weaknesses in their keyboards if they feel the need to do so. I know for a fact that KORG would run a mile too if this place was run like that because they too love the honestly and the close friendship everyone has here as well as the level of support we all show for each other. The forum is actually run in the spirit of KORG if you know what I mean. So to accuse me and others of doing real damage to the future of workstation here by simple express honest uncensored opinions is an insult.

Regards
Sharp.

[DeanoCalgary]

I could have voted but will not; the question is irreverent (not sic) and reflects a righteous (read: juvenile) attitude toward Korg. Listen up: I recently paid $3500 CDN (after trade in) for a slightly used 76 which I have used and will continue to use for gigging. I love it and would be very interested in anything Korg did with the Oasys name in the future. I would pay around that amount again for an Oasys 2 if it was advanced in the areas I enjoy it for today, a) quality of sounds and b) User Interface for performances. I might even pay more than that if sufficiently advanced. The parameters that are important to me as I ponder your question - lower price range and some qualification as to the kind of product enhancement that would appear in an Oasys 2 were not covered adequately by the responses available in your survey, hence I'm choosing not to participate in what appears to be kind of lynching of the manufacturer.

If you were an advocate of the product and were looking to positively influence the manufacturer I’d say a better survey question would have been;

If Korg released an Oasys 2 would you be interested in it (choose one from below) ?

Yes, even if it was in the original product price range
Yes, but only if it was cheaper than Oasys 1.
Yes, but only if it was sufficiently enhanced in the areas that are important to me.
Yes, but only if it was both cheaper, and was enhanced in the areas that are important to me
No, not under any of the conditions listed above

The results of a survey based on something like the above should at least have some legitimacy with Korg primarily because the tone of it is more genuine, it seeks useful information, not simply ammunition for an execution.

[Kevin Nolan]

Sharp -

I realise this is descending into a tit-for-tat debate (although we're all debating in good faith and there's no animosity at all and surely nothing personal or insulting going on) - but I feel its important to take a stand at this point - I'm firmly of the conviction that, as harsh as it sounds, the level of griping over OASYS in the past year or so is unfounded. I of course do not want censorship and all are entitled to an opinion - but that does not make all opinions valid.

I'm not trying to claim righteousness for the sake of it, nor is there any particular allegiance to Korg; but I own a hell of a lot of synthesizers and have a lot of thoughts on what constitutes a good design and a good thing when I see it, within the real, and imperfect, world. So I'll say it again - OASYS is outrageously good; it is far from perfect, the myriad of complaints on this forum have of late been by and large outlandish, and you and all those expressing such frustrations have in no doubt contributed substantively to its cancellation. The user base is too small for perpetual gripes not to make a difference and cause damage - it's happened to many instruments in the past and it is clearly happening to OASYS even now. Just look at the poll - the user base has just told Korg not to bother. I'm sorry if you're taking that personally but its a chillling reality. Complain repeatedly, and in my opinion unreasonably, and you'll be heard for sure - Korg will not touch another OASYS with a 60-foot barge poll after the onslaught against it from the industry.



I personally balk at some of the requests and demands that have been made by OASYS users from Korg; and I find it honestly incomprehensible when coming across the many venomous posts - I honestly cant see where this emotion is coming from but its just disproportionate, but worst of all, damaging.

If there is one thing I am passionate about it is the future of hardware synthesizers and musical instruments in general. To me OASYS has litterally been that - an OASYS in an otherwise very barren desert over the past decade. I'm sorry that you and others with perpetuating issues do not see it that way; but I'll say it again - I think you need to step back and look more reasonably at your outstanding issues - to me the are simply over the top and doing real damage to the future prospects of similar scale instruments. I hope I'm wrong on that but I fear not.

As just one example - Korg, around the time of canceling OASYS and subsequent to canceling it released, for free, 700+ effects presets and about the same number of programs; yet the level of gratitude was IMO small and they were quickly forgotten, replaced almost instantaneously with more cries for 'keep the free stuff coming ' irrespective of what that 'stuff' might actually be. This is a company that has to make a profit to survive - I honestly think that level of expectation is crazy.

I can understand reasonable opinions an frustrations, but the cries from this forum and beyond concerning OASYS have become something altogether more outlandish and that bugs me because its doing damage. So I do not mean to direct insults your way or the way of other on the forum with outstanding frustrations; but I feel your plain wrong in most instances aired recently - especially on the concept of that 'OPEN' means, and as said, feel that this sort of repeated airing of these issues is doing substantive damage to the prospect of similar future innovation.

And I'm not saying shut up and put up - historically many valid grievances and requests for OASYS have come forth and made this forum very relevant to the advance and cause of OASYS and hardware synths in general; I just feel there has always been a level of unreasonable expectation; and now it dominates the argument, wrongly IMO.

This I am 100% confident of - in an ideal world Korg would have loved to have sustained OASYS, released an updated sequencer and other EX engines and samples. But the couldn't for a multitude of reasons surely associated with the business; but the way people have been going on you'd swear Korg canceled OASYS on spite. It's surely got to stop? Surely what OASYS is deserves more celebration, more work put into configuring and sharing by us, and show the damn thing for what it is through music?

Kevin.