Kaossilator Pro fixes and features wish list (update4/20/10)

[SMK]

technology didn't stop progressing years ago. this is a digital instrument. it would take a negligible amount of memory to record input data and separate it out into individual steps. even the shittiest computer they sell at walmart doesn't get bogged down with undo/redo functions that are available in notepad. it would function just the same as that; following the recorded steps of data.

sure, i dont think there are buttons for it or that this unit is set up for it, but this is a wishlist that could affect future installments.

The reason why this is impossible for a KoPro firmware update is that this type of function would require a lot more than just a simple programing change...a lot more. Yes a cheap computer at wal-mart might do the trick but the KoPro is not a Wal-mart exclusive. it is designed to have a high quality "Sound on Sound" looping feature that, quite honestly, is in and of itself, a very difficult task to get right with out degradation of sound quality. Even Boss Loopstation can't match the quality.

With what is physically built into the KoPro, you can not get from here to where you want it to go. This is why it is impossible.

[Mr36]

And if you want this feature just because it will make using your built up loops easier to organise in a DAW, just use Ableton Live in the first place. Or set up the DAW you have/use to record a new track each time you record something new. I'd guess it wouldn't be that difficult, even if it meant you had to phyically arm the new track to record to yourself before playing the next part.

Anyway, back on topic a bit more:

New feature that I mentioned somewhere else once:

* sample-playback program - splits up the 8x8 pad into 16 (2x2) "sample pads" that you can set to trigger a sample from the SD card. These could be custom one-hit samples or loops (either time-stretched to the set BPM or left to loop as is). The files for these samples could be a different type to those of the loop files and the data files to allow them to be selected from a different bank of saved files on the SD card. The loading could be accessed the same way though and when on the program (say #200), shift + 2 will give you option of which "pad" to load to (they can be numbered 1-16) and then which sample to load. To alter the kind of sample it will be (one-hit, loop, momentary, toggle), holding down shift and touching the relevant "pad" will make no sound but bring an option of one-hit or loop and then momentary or toggle (or whatever terminology Korg use).
This would give the KPro functionality that I don't think Korg allow for anywhere else in their product range. Certainly not in this price range anyway. It would be like a mini SP-404/MPC in a program to allow for some custom samples to be used.
I'm sure Korg could implement something like this if they chose to, they just probably won't.

Alternatively, they could add an SD card and relevant software into the PadKontrol to allow it to be more than a MIDI controller but actually a sample player too.

Although I like the idea of having this on the X-Y pad.

Anyway, like I said, will probably never happen but would be nice. And if there is something that already does this in the Korg repertoire, feel free to correct me.

[curtaineater]

For the record I didn't think any sort of infinite undo or anything would be possible in this current model. I was thinking ahead.

I totally agree with 32 beats. That would make for some dynamic songs.

[darthballs]

As much as I want 32 beats or an undo function, it will NEVER happen with this physical iteration of KOPro/KP3.. it's just a fundamental problem of memory..

To double the sampling time to 32 beats, you have to remember you're doubling it for all 4 loop banks. It's a shame too, because half the songs out there actually "loop" across 32 beats, aside from pure electronica.

For an undo feature, while it sounds easy as hell to implement in your head, in reality, you have to again double the memory. For each loop bank. How do you think an instant gapless undo works? There needs to be a 2nd dedicated memory slot (another loop bank if you will) for each one you want to add an undo function to. It doesn't just magically know how to undo your last addition, it has to resample your new additions into an entirely separate memory bank so it can recall the original back if you change your mind/screw up.

In the end, I'm just really disappointed Korg cheaped out on memory of all things - it really is extremely cheap - just to save a few bucks in production. The payoff of adding that extra memory would've resulted in FAR more sales of either of these machines. Big oversight, but that's what the KP3 / KOPro2 is for.

Complain all you want, but this isn't something a firmware update can fix. Unless they release some kind of firmware that lets the unit recognize a manual memory upgrade that you'll have to do yourself.

Korg is on the right track, remember these are still fairly new and innovative products, and when the next generation of these products come out and they have 32 (or more) beats sampling time, undo features, overdubs and bouncing, and a gdamn internal clock that can stay consistent, I will be first in line and all over it. Stupid oversights aside, they got a lot of things right for what these units are supposed to do - whether or not that's acceptable to you and your $400 a pop is up to you.

[samartin]

You know what, rather than being realtime this/that, if an SD card can't write at realtime speeds!?

But why not bounce the any of the banks highlighted to the SD card! Then if Korg could sort out the load while performing, this would make the unit a little more open to radical experimenting. Or even saving while playing, this would allow you to carry on whilst mid-flow. That's another story...

But ultimately I guess we all love this unit, and see the potential, but someone in a suit came along and f@cked it up!

[salamanderanagram]

But why not bounce the any of the banks highlighted to the SD card! Then if Korg could sort out the load while performing, this would make the unit a little more open to radical experimenting.

the reason is the same reason why you have both RAM and ROM on a computer. RAM can be accessed much quicker but is more expensive/difficult to interface with... my guess is the microcontroller/logic board used in the kp3/pro can only handle a certain (small) amount of RAM, and apparently it's limited to 2GB of ROM as well.

i agree that this would make for an awesome feature in a future device, but it aint' happening with this one.

[tpantano]

I don't actually have a KPRO but thought I'd chime in here,

why don't instruments have bigger RAM amounts? Sure, non-volatile RAM is expensive, but not expensive enough that memory needs to be kept in the megabytes! I mean, even 512 mb non-volatile RAM isn't that expensive...

[salamanderanagram]

the problem (i think, i don't work with microprocessors or circuitry on this level) is not with the cost of the RAM but the cost of interfacing with it. for example, old computer logic boards cannot handle the same size of RAM chips that newer computers can. so i think it would require new logic board, more powerful microprocessor, faster bus, etc.... you would need to upgrade every component to take advantage of such a change.

again, this is merely conjecture on my part. i know very little about it.

[SMK]

Well we already agree that the doubling of the beats and having undue is out of the question. Can we get back on topic and stick to making a list of things that seem more possible for korg to do in a firmware up date?

Here is the list so far!

1.Using SHIFT+GATE ARP to allow you to save and call up saved arp gate patterns you created. this also leads to being able to bring back the arp patterns -k0va5 -SMK -curtaineater

2. Be able to play sounds while switching on/off sound banks without recording snippets of sound while you do so -curtaineater

3. combine two sound banks that are already in use, (bouncing tracks) -curtaineater -k0va5

4. be able to customise the effect on the Y axis. This I do not think is possible as it is. however I would want suggest making it so that you can use the existing internal effects on the internal synth that would make more sense and is more feasible. -k0va5 -SMK

4a. use the existing internal effects on the internal synth -k0va5 -SMK

5. Use program numbers in shift mode to have more direct control over chopping up the loops (like on KP3) -Mr36

6. Option for other time signatures (not just beats in increments for 4/4) -Mr36

7. Quantize option -Mr36

8. Midi note on X and Y controllers in GLOBAL mode; ability to control with NORMAL MIDI-NOTE OUTPUT MIDI CONTROLLERS. -Mr36 -SMK

9. Better midi (input) control options. Its hard to get a keyboard going with this thing... -curtaineater


So please just copy this list and add your idea to it and leave your name next to it. Some one else did the same thing here for KP3 and we got a very quick response and a new up date for the KP3 rather quickly.

Keep in mind that this is only firmware up dates that we are looking to get. There are some more dreamy stuff that is in reality a hard ware fix. Also in case you have not noticed how looooong it takes to load saved loops and sample on this thing, bare in mind if your fix includes using the SD card as added memory...it wont work. Lets not hijack this mans thread for long discussion on issues of memory, hardware or other ideas for a new KoPro 2 which a very much far far way.

I'm sure there are other doable firmware fixes that relate to better alignment of tracks, looping syncing and so on, so list them here.

I will submit this list to the tech guys at Korg (I'm in e-mail contact with one of the techs).

Thanks!

[samartin]

10. Load and save banks on the fly (during a performance/playback), currently it cuts out the unit whilst accessing the SD card.

[k0va5]

10. Load and save banks on the fly (during a performance/playback), currently it cuts out the unit whilst accessing the SD card.

n0 chance

[Mr36]

I honestly don't think they're going to do anything about any of it. Although I hope they do try to fix some of it by firmware update, I think the only time this stuff is going to be fixed is in a couple of years when they announce the Kaossilator Pro 2 at Namm '12.

[k0va5]

I honestly don't think they're going to do anything about any of it. Although I hope they do try to fix some of it by firmware update, I think the only time this stuff is going to be fixed is in a couple of years when they announce the Kaossilator Pro 2 at Namm '12.

agreed.

hopefully a firmware fix will bring back the arps and a couple of minor things..

either way, ive played with the kpro now at home for about three weeks.. its F8ucking cool.. no question about it.. its not the perfect do all instument.. and i think thats the mistake some ppl are making with it. it does what it does.. and thats a suprer fun jamming gizmo that you can make nice loops in and arrange in your daw.

[Mr36]

1.Using SHIFT+GATE ARP to allow you to save and call up saved arp gate patterns you created. this also leads to being able to bring back the arp patterns -k0va5 -SMK -curtaineater

2. Be able to play sounds while switching on/off sound banks without recording snippets of sound while you do so -curtaineater

3. combine two sound banks that are already in use, (bouncing tracks) -curtaineater -k0va5

4. be able to customise the effect on the Y axis. This I do not think is possible as it is. however I would want suggest making it so that you can use the existing internal effects on the internal synth that would make more sense and is more feasible. -k0va5 -SMK

4a. use the existing internal effects on the internal synth -k0va5 -SMK

5. Use program numbers in shift mode to have more direct control over chopping up the loops (like on KP3) -Mr36

6. Option for other time signatures (not just beats in increments for 4/4) -Mr36

7. Quantize option -Mr36

8. Midi note on X and Y controllers in GLOBAL mode; ability to control with NORMAL MIDI-NOTE OUTPUT MIDI CONTROLLERS. -Mr36 -SMK

9. Better midi (input) control options. Its hard to get a keyboard going with this thing... -curtaineater

10. Load and save banks on the fly (during a performance/playback), currently it cuts out the unit whilst accessing the SD card.

11. Ability to record in external audio without hearing it live if the volume level for the recording bank is all the way down. This would open us possibilities for songs no end, allowing for a built up bank loop to be recorded but not heard until the volume was put back up. I was hoping this would be a feature already but alas is not.

[samartin]

1.Using SHIFT+GATE ARP to allow you to save and call up saved arp gate patterns you created. this also leads to being able to bring back the arp patterns -k0va5 -SMK -curtaineater

2. Be able to play sounds while switching on/off sound banks without recording snippets of sound while you do so -curtaineater

3. combine two sound banks that are already in use, (bouncing tracks) -curtaineater -k0va5

4. be able to customise the effect on the Y axis. This I do not think is possible as it is. however I would want suggest making it so that you can use the existing internal effects on the internal synth that would make more sense and is more feasible. -k0va5 -SMK

4a. use the existing internal effects on the internal synth -k0va5 -SMK

5. Use program numbers in shift mode to have more direct control over chopping up the loops (like on KP3) -Mr36

6. Option for other time signatures (not just beats in increments for 4/4) -Mr36

7. Quantize option -Mr36

8. Midi note on X and Y controllers in GLOBAL mode; ability to control with NORMAL MIDI-NOTE OUTPUT MIDI CONTROLLERS. -Mr36 -SMK

9. Better midi (input) control options. Its hard to get a keyboard going with this thing... -curtaineater

10. Load and save banks on the fly (during a performance/playback), currently it cuts out the unit whilst accessing the SD card.

11. Ability to record in external audio without hearing it live if the volume level for the recording bank is all the way down. This would open us possibilities for songs no end, allowing for a built up bank loop to be recorded but not heard until the volume was put back up. I was hoping this would be a feature already but alas is not.

12. Once you've recorded a loop (say 8 beats), you have to wait for another 8 beats before you can go into mixer mode. Be nice not having to wait before adjusting length/levels of other loops.