Curios - and a great pity

[Kevin Nolan]

TagPass I think you've put your finger on it.

If so its a great pity that Korg feels bound by such (largely) misperception. But business is business.

[ngr33n]

I speculate that they didn't mention it because it allows Kronos to stand on its own two feet against the competition from Yamaha and Kurzweil.

Trying to market a keyboard that's a "lite" version of another one just doesn't have the same effect as "the game has been changed...again." I think that rather than trying to point out the differences between Kronos and Oasys or Kronos and M3, they're trying to say "hey, look at us, we just blew Motif out the water."

[TheCube]

Come on guys What should they say?

Here we have the new KRONOS. it's a copy/clone of the OASYS with a few additions. The OASYS was a failure (sales) years ago, but now we come up again with it and this time all will be perfect?

I think that Korg really need the money like everybody else in these times.

Maybe at NAMM 2010, they saw Roland coming up with cheap plastic toys and Yamaha, what a surprise, showing the Motif again. And Korg did the same, Monotron - fun but a toy - and micro1... micro2...

Maybe then, they decided to but everything on one card - now or never again - OASYS II aka KRONOS.

If they where planning to do this for a long time, there would be much more development have been done. It's seams, like you guys are writing, that almost everything is the identical. It looks more like it was decided just a few month ago

The OASYS was tot expensive to be a mass product. And i'm sure they could not make it less expensive. If, they would have done. There was no cheap Intel Atom board, no cheap SSD, no cheap RAM, and so on.

Like my i7 PC i bought two month ago. Half the price of the i7 PC i bought a year ago and twice the speed

I was a Yammi (yes, shame on me) for years/decades , but i left them after the Motif ES was declared death. Yamaha is selling the same workstation over and over again. Nothing new, nothing groundbreaking - a bit more ROM a bit more RAM a bit more development. But each reincarnation was promised as the holy grail

So please, don't judge them to hard ...

I like the KORG guys, they are more musicians then salesman . And i'm sure that the are very proud of bringing the OASYS back to the masses. But thats a business rule - never talk about errors in the past - always look forward.

Finally i will get a KORG workstation again, and i'm looking forward what great inspiration it will be to switch off my computers with 1000 VSTi's and and 100000 presets and just making music again with an musical instrument.

Greetings, Dieter.

PS.: Sorry for my bad english - i'll try hard to get better.

PPS: Und besonders liebe Grüße an alle Österreicher.

[EvilDragon]

There is NOTHING new about the concept of Kronos.

Sure there is, but it's not the sound engines. It's:

1. Direct-from-disk streaming. First workstation EVER to include this. Now, although we had DFD in software back in GIGA days, this is a novelty in workstation world. Definitely a game changer, no matter how much you refuse to admit it! Now all other workstations will have to have something similar to be able to compete. Megabyte ROMs are a thing of the past now!
2. Seamless patch transition, no matter how many FX you use (take that, Fantom G with limited effects in Live mode!). A first for Korg, and done well right off the bat.

[peter m. mahr]

Come on guys What should they say?

Here we have the new KRONOS. it's a copy/clone of the OASYS with a few additions. The OASYS was a failure (sales) years ago, but now we come up again with it and this time all will be perfect?

I think that Korg really need the money like everybody else in these times.

Maybe at NAMM 2010, they saw Roland coming up with cheap plastic toys and Yamaha, what a surprise, showing the Motif again. And Korg did the same, Monotron - fun but a toy - and micro1... micro2...

Maybe then, they decided to but everything on one card - now or never again - OASYS II aka KRONOS.

If they where planning to do this for a long time, there would be much more development have been done. It's seams, like you guys are writing, that almost everything is the identical. It looks more like it was decided just a few month ago

The OASYS was tot expensive to be a mass product. And i'm sure they could not make it less expensive. If, they would have done. There was no cheap Intel Atom board, no cheap SSD, no cheap RAM, and so on.

Like my i7 PC i bought two month ago. Half the price of the i7 PC i bought a year ago and twice the speed

I was a Yammi (yes, shame on me) for years/decades , but i left them after the Motif ES was declared death. Yamaha is selling the same workstation over and over again. Nothing new, nothing groundbreaking - a bit more ROM a bit more RAM a bit more development. But each reincarnation was promised as the holy grail

So please, don't judge them to hard ...

I like the KORG guys, they are more musicians then salesman . And i'm sure that the are very proud of bringing the OASYS back to the masses. But thats a business rule - never talk about errors in the past - always look forward.

Finally i will get a KORG workstation again, and i'm looking forward what great inspiration it will be to switch off my computers with 1000 VSTi's and and 100000 presets and just making music again with an musical instrument.

Greetings, Dieter.

PS.: Sorry for my bad english - i'll try hard to get better.

PPS: Und besonders liebe Grüße an alle Österreicher.

Mit besonderem Dank erwidert

@ EvilDragon: may I correct you, both Piano EXis are defenitily new. Reminds me on YAMAHA's CP1, although I am not sure whether this is the same combination of technologies (samples + modeling).

[thekeymaster]

Ive found this strange too, in fact it is very uncomfortable watching as a n OASYS owner. I think Korg are trying to sell this as a new instrument to the masses and think the majority of new owners will have never aspired to OASYS,maybe not ever looked at the thing.

It makes you wonder and I for one would love to see if Sharp could ask the question.

It's like the OASYS never existed

[EvilDragon]

@ EvilDragon: may I correct you, both Piano EXis are defenitily new. Reminds me on YAMAHA's CP1, although I am not sure whether this is the same combination of technologies (samples + modeling).

Hey, I know that. I think you should be correcting cello.

[Charlie]

Holla! Peter, da ist ein 3. Opfer für unseren 2-köpfigen Österreich-Oasys-Fanclub!! Liebe Grüße retour an den Würfel!

Ok - I had exactly the same thing on my mind when seeing the long video. Why not ONE comment on the Oasys?!?
Are they ashamed? They know that every Oasys-user immediately see's "his" Oasys inside a new body - at least software-wise. Why can't they simply say: "We took the good things of Oasys and improved them?" Open communication is always better than trying to hide something.

The Kronos seems a very good next step and is improving several things of the Oasys (2 more engines, 24 bit, sample streaming, seamless sound switching). And it's 100% ok to do so! I'd expect every innovative company to improve!! But I'm with others here: this must have been a clear decision to mention nothing that comes close to the Oasys. But I neither understand WHY nor do I think it's a clever decision. It just adds frustration to an exclusive group of customers.

What surprised me though is that they didn't improve the sequencer UI. Not even to the level of the M3. That's weird ...

[TagPass]

Ive found this strange too, in fact it is very uncomfortable watching as a n OASYS owner. I think Korg are trying to sell this as a new instrument to the masses and think the majority of new owners will have never aspired to OASYS,maybe not ever looked at the thing.

It makes you wonder and I for one would love to see if Sharp could ask the question.

It's like the OASYS never existed

It also appears to be shaping up that way for the potential user-base too! Check out the comments on Harmony Central, Gearslutz, Sonic State. Everyone's jazzed up about this "fantastic new" STR-1, and "finally, someone releases an FM synth!" I'm finding it quite amusing, albeit a little surreal.

The most humorous thing is how everyone is saying how fantastic it sounds. Wasn't the OASYS "just a Triton on steroids" a couple years back? Now it sounds awesome!

KRONOS is like the ANTI-OASYS.

[Kontrol49]

The most humorous thing is how everyone is saying how fantastic it sounds. Wasn't the OASYS "just a Triton on steroids" a couple years back? Now it sounds awesome!

KRONOS is like the ANTI-OASYS.

I seem to recall a similar Hate for the Triton,simply because it was a big seller,most people slate it,Like its uncool to use the same machine as everyone else,and perhaps those are pretty much the majority who never actually owned one,same with the Oasys it gained a large negative vibe in some communities from all those who never actually had or used one but as I said in a previous thread...."Watch the Oasys haters crawl out of the woodwork to buy Kronos"

And much of that factor to buy a Kronos is simply because they always wanted an Oasys but slagged it off because of its price tag it was out of reach for most,now those exact same people will gloat at the fact they have the same machine as the Oasys for a fraction of the price and proclaim to the gods how great it is...


The one thing I don't get is Korg's ignorance to the Oasys,even in this Presentation they did with Rich F and Jack Hotop at the unveiling,I cannot understand even if Oasys never gained a sucessful status they hoped for,how they simply choose to ignore there Legacy of where it evolved from surely sooner or later its going to crop up in the Press about it being recycled or reworked once the kronos reviews start to flow and Korg are going to have to answer to their Demons....

[TagPass]

"Watch the Oasys haters crawl out of the woodwork to buy Kronos"

Prophetic words, Kontrol49.

[thekeymaster]

The most humorous thing is how everyone is saying how fantastic it sounds. Wasn't the OASYS "just a Triton on steroids" a couple years back? Now it sounds awesome!

KRONOS is like the ANTI-OASYS.

Yeah Tag pass ,i find this so funny but annoying at the same time.If anyone cared to listen properly back in 2005 it is so much different.

It feels like Korg have managed total recall on the past 5 years in regards to OASYS and managed to repackage it. Are we sure they haven't brainwashed everyone. We humans are so fickle.

Part of me is glad the masses will get it but there's that little bit of me that's thinking....Bas@$rds,Korg have let the secret out now and done it cheaper with more goodies!!!!!!!!!!

[cello]

Part of me is glad the masses will get it but there's that little bit of me that's thinking....Bas@$rds,Korg have let the secret out now and done it cheaper with more goodies!!!!!!!!!!

Same here!

[MartinHines]

As you say, it is indeed a great pity - not only does Korg seem not to respect it's own development history, it also doesn't appear to respect those who invested in it...

I would not interpret it that way at all.

As was mentioned to me on another forum, most of the mainstream keyboardists don't really know that much about the OASYS, so an OASYS reference is meaningless to them.

Companies want products to appear to be as new as possible. What sounds better, (1) "we created a new product with nine synth engines" or (2) "we repackaged some technology from the OASYS using less expensive hardware components"? I just don't see how an OASYS reference helps Korg sell more Kronos keyboards.

I was one of the first OASYS owners in the world (OASYS 88 #30) and I don't feel any "lack of respect" from Korg. They are a business trying to stay in business. That requires they continue to release new products (or at least products that appear to be new) and it requires that they discontinue products once those products stop generating revenue.

People "in the know" (like OASYS owners) realize that much of the Kronos was derived from the OASYS. It doesn't bother me at all that Korg doesn't mention the OASYS in Kronos marketing. I like Korg products and want them to be successful so they stay in business.

[Kevin Nolan]

Martin -

I would, for starters, expect a company to be honest. Korg are promoting Kronos synth engines as if they are new. That's actually lying to the new, prospective Kronos market. Forget about us OASYS users - they are being, right now, actively dishonest to an new potential market. And it's not accidental - they know what they are doing.

Furthermore, I fundamentally disagree with your analysis. Afterall – they mention MS20, Polysix, and even the M3 keyboard for the 61 note model. Indeed it has virtually been entirely the case among all technology companies that, where they feel proud of their legacy, they use it to their advantage. Here we have a new instrument which is virtually a clone of the OASYS and then some (important) add ons, and Korg don’t mention it once. Irrespective of the lack of sales of OASYS, it is a class instrument (given it’s being used in Kronos I think its now hard to disagree with that) so the only conclusion one can draw is that Korg are NOT proud of OASYS and indeed must see it as taboo. If the case, they should be honest about it.

I find myself in a very curious place right now. I have invested huge time in OASYS and that is totally personal and continues to be massively advantageous. I also think the release of Kronos is awesome and I fully intend getting one. I also admire Korg hugely for having released it and for it having OASYS technology in it.

But – and it’s a MASSIVE but – they are lying – right now and to a new market! Furthermore, though I have always (except on one occasion) defended Korg against those who felt shafted by OASYS’s premature ending, I now fully sympathise with them (though I still do not feel shafted – Korg/OASYS owe me nothing). But – clearly with Korg now pretending to the world that OASYS never existed is nothing short of offensive to the OASYS community – from Herbie Hancock down. I mean – who do Korg think they are that they can just white wash over a community who helped them understand OASYS, its failing and positives?

It was put to me by some Korg employees that I was being unfair about my one major gripe about Korg some months back; and although my gripe was not thought through and was largely factually incorrect; I feel it was born out of some overall lack of metal, lack of character and lack of loyalty that was emanating from Korg; and now we see it in all its glory. The 50minute video physically sickens me – they are going on about Kronos as if it’s ALL new – and its not sickening me because I feel betrayed as an OASYS user; rather the video sickened me because they are being blatantly dishonest to their brand new market.


All I can say is – it’s creepy! All of a sudden we’re getting posts here from people who do not know OASYS asking if this feature or that synth engine is good as if they are new; when in fact it’s 6 year old technology repackaged.

As said – I think Kronos is an awesome move and I hugely – and I mean hugely applaud and admire Korg for doing it. They have whipped Yamaha and Roland butts and boy did they need whipping – but the way they have whitewashed over OASYS makes me cringe – they are being incredibly disloyal to this community (I mean I have even beta tested for dozens if not over a hundred hours or more for OASYS !). Korg really need to look at themselves to ask if that’s the way you treat people. And as said they are doing it – right now – to the new potential Kronos community.

A very, VERY weird experience.

By the way – I explained this to my sister to see if it was just me or if there is objectively something to what I’m saying here (my sister could not care about this area) and she found it equally bewildering and creepy. Korg – you need to cop on to yourselves. We’re professionals you’re dealing with here. Above all else – be honest about your legacy, warts and all, and treat people with respect – including you new and prospective user bases. I personally believe it is Korg Japan, or Korg Corporate/Marketing who are responsible for this situation - and not the likes of Korg R&D USA or Korg UK, for example.

I'll finish on one practical point. The presenter of that 50 minute video is technically misleading on one vital point - polyphony. While Kronos is, hands down, the best and most versatile keyboard in production today, it provides, at best, 140 note polyphony. That is only 12 notes more than the Fantom or Motif - at best. Furthermore, if you mix and match synth engines in a program, combi or song, polyphony is FAR less. That presenter points to polyphony limitations being essentially gone for good with Kronos, and that is frankly not the case. I'm not sure he is trying to lie inthis instance - it looks like he's just sloppy in his thinking becaues it is virtually limitless in terms of sound options; but in terms of polyphony, in any practical situation, the Kronos will suffer far worse than even, for example, a Yamaha Motif ES laiden with expansion VL and DX/FM cards which can reach well over 140 voices without losses. It looks like that presenter just hasn't sat at an OASYS where polyphony can be an issue, let alone a Kronos with just 80% of the polyphony of OASYS; nor has he used it in any real and practical production scenario. The written blurb is very clear and honest on this point - but his presentation is sloppy at best, dishonest at worst, in this regard.


Kevin.