Just a clarification. Both the Triton Extreme 88 and OASYS 88 have the RH2 keybed (I even confimed this by looking at the Service Manuals).
The M3-88 has the RH3 keybed, as does the new Kronos 88.
I believe the Korg SP-250 was the first Korg 88-key keyboard to have the RH3 keybed.
While there may be some differences betweeen the RH2 and RH3, all keyboard manufacturers had to remove lead from their products due to ROHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) law.
For example Yamaha replaced their lead-based "FS" synth action keybeds with the "FSX" keybeds.
Unless I've fallen completely out my rockin' chair (it's possible) the Extreme did have RH3.
If not, then it couldn't have had the same keybed as the O.
I had them both side by side for a very short time and there was a huge difference.
Maybe Dan could confirm?
Kronos 2-88, 01/Wfd, Virus TI Desktop, Casio VZ-10M,
Event 20/20bas, Reverb 4000, Many Stompboxes -
Extreme couldn't have had the same keybed as the Oasys
It did, man.
Now, after the fact, a realization suddendly dawns...
Next time I read the words "ultimate", "top notch", "a class of its own" and "peerless"
I'll shoot to kill
Yeah, I did the research and see that you are all right.
I'm truly confounded.
My Oasys feels like it has a much lighter touch (than TEX) and has always been somewhat, oh I guess the term is 'clunky', right out of the box.
But the sound... oh yeah!
Kronos 2-88, 01/Wfd, Virus TI Desktop, Casio VZ-10M,
Event 20/20bas, Reverb 4000, Many Stompboxes -
I think the real quandary lies in transition from one to another -- weighted vs unweighted.
I use both, in a TEX 88 (weighted) and T-Classic (synth) AND a Steinway if I'm doing my regular church gig, I've had to spend a lot of time (re)building up my "piano" chops in order to get comfortable on the TEX after many years of playing Triton and Trinity unweighted actions.
For me the key issue (pun intended) more than the organ/piano dilemma is the ability to inject subtle nuance into the performance gestures. Take key strike velocity -- how much force it takes to trigger a velocity layer in a combination -- they're completely different, and after playing a weighted board I find everything I play has a velocity of 127 on an unweighted board. And the same goes in the other direction. Gestures that give nicely gradiated and musical results using a piano voice on unweighted keys sound way underplayed on weighted keys.
So, to a certain extent I'd agree with robinkle's piano teacher that a weighted keyboard is "better" - certainly for transitions from weighted key bed synth to acoustic piano. But I gotta think this is all ultimately an apples/oranges argument. Each key bed has its strengths and weaknesses, and if you're dissatisfied with your results entering drums using keys maybe you need an AKAI style finger pad controller... and there's a thought -- Wouldn't it be cool if the USB ports on the Kronos could support some peripheral/secondary controllers like an unweighted waterfall key bed, drum pad, EWI, or (oooo-eeee-ooooh-aaaah!) theramin.
Hedegaard wrote:Akos, I think it shouldn't matter what synth the keybed is on, the triggering is all the same yes?
When I say "triggering" I don't mean the technical details. I mean the full way how the sound is created - the whole process from the moment you touch the key until you finally hear the sound.
That's why it's pointless to say "this keybed is good in itself, and that is not good". It always also depends on which instrument includes that keybed - because the sound modules are also different: one is more sensitive, the other is less sensitive, etc.
So even if RH3 is (IMHO) very good, I say it because I have the experience with RH3 in the SV-1. If you put RH3 in another instrument the result might be - and most probably will be - different.
To get the answer for the original question I think we have to try the RH3 in Kronos itself. Then we will know how Kronos reacts when triggering it with the RH3 keys.
Sorry, I still don't follow you.
Look, when a key is pressed, there is a contact that it will make, at which time the synthesizer will spit out a sound.
Its the same for 100% of all synths every produced.
So I dont see how a RH3 on for example a Triton-something, will play differently on the Kronos?
Its the same keybed.
Maybe you could give me a clearer example for my blondness?
1) Your touch + 2) key action + 3) sound module + etc. = AUDIBLE SOUND.
All ingredients matter. For example if you play SV-1 then Kronos, then 1) and 2) is the same but 3) is still different (the other sound module will react differently to the same MIDI IN signal). That's why the end result will be different, too.
So it means practically, even if I like the RH3 now I still cannot be 100% sure about how good this will be in any other instrument (= connected to another sound source) in the future.
Of course, thinking about Kronos I expect the best. But still, unfortunately I have to wait and try it personally.
Just my 2 cents.. I hope they have done something to improve the quality of the RH3 on the kronos. I have the SV-1 and while I absolutely love the action.. the keybed noise is inconsistent. Some keys click very audibly, while others are solid. Korg says its the nature of the product. So I sure hope the nature of the Kronos isn't to suck as well.. bad idea for a flagship I think.
I'm seriously thinking about taking the board somewhere to have it modified. Nothing worse than playing a nice legato piece only to have it interrupted by a big click.
Hedegaard wrote:I was wondering, is keybed numbering the same as Korg's conventional numbering standard?
For example:
T1 - best (88 keys)
T2 - better (76)
T3 - good (61)
Then:
RH1 - best
RH2 - better
RH3 - good
Or, is RH3 the best and everything below is worse?
RH3 is the newest, and should be best (have not tried Rh3 but i sure can say that the newer semi-weighted keys in M3 73/61 & kronos 61 are pure awesome)
- Download & share Korg keyboard patches for free. Korg M3-73 (Radias Exb & Warwick "RC 21728 B" case), Clavia Nord Electro 3.
[On Hold]: Elka MK-88. [Sold]: Roland XP-30, Access Virus C
Sorry, I still don't follow you.
Look, when a key is pressed, there is a contact that it will make, at which time the synthesizer will spit out a sound.
Its the same for 100% of all synths every produced.
So I dont see how a RH3 on for example a Triton-something, will play differently on the Kronos?
Its the same keybed.
Maybe you could give me a clearer example for my blondness
I was at the music store, listening an M388 and M361. I played the same sound (an Electric Piano) on both keyboards and there was a much different result. I'm sure it has to do a lot with velocity curves and settings like that, but it sounded so much better to me on the RH3 bed.
For years I have used only 88 note boards. But now my arms and back can't take it anymore. So I was leaning towards the 61 Kronos. But now i am going for the 73 (which thankfully is weighted).
No matter how you cut it, you can't play a decent piano on a synth bed, and you sure can't play good B3 technique on weighted keys. I think the keys on my TEX88 are superb, and remember one reviewer calling them "oily" which actually is a good fit.
I remember posting on S. Kay's site about my never-ending dream of a variable weighted keyboard. Someone pointed out that a keyboard (don't remember which one) actually had one in the distant past.
Korg makes their own now and it seems like a variable weighted keyboard would be a killer addition. Don't know how, I ain't no engineer, but it seems like mini air pistons, or some such thing on each key could be controlled digitally. You could have a range of feels..no resistance, tons, resistance curves, whatever. Change on the fly..maybe linked to each patch. Probably add a lot of weight, maintenance would be a horror...still...I'd ante up for one.
When I say "triggering" I don't mean the technical details. I mean the full way how the sound is created - the whole process from the moment you touch the key until you finally hear the sound.
That's why it's pointless to say "this keybed is good in itself, and that is not good". It always also depends on which instrument includes that keybed - because the sound modules are also different: one is more sensitive, the other is less sensitive, etc.
Yes, I'm very curious about this. In one of the demo videos by Rich for the Kronos, he talked getting together with top players to get the FEEL for particular sounds mapped? to the keybed so that it sounds/feels real.
I've heard people who talk about liking a particular sound from one keyboard a lot more once it was routed to another keyboard.
How is this done, that a given sound can feel real under your fingertips, or not, depending on how they've mapped it? Is it just getting the velocity split points right? And the velocity curves?
