Very nice Korg resource cut off???

[Dany]

...as the Oasys is a PC, although probably the most "sexy" looking, hiding the truth in such a perfet way, that I always had the feeling to play a "real instrument"...

Dear Peter, I don't want to be picky, but the OASYS is not a well hidden PC. A PC is a Personal Computer, with an architecture designed to run different applications for completely different needs at the same time. It is of course true that the OASYS uses some of the main hardware components that you will find in a PC, but the architecture is a completely different one (as of course you know) and its software system is especially and integrally designed around its hardware, to do most efficiently what it needs to do (to synthesize sound) and for nothing else. Following your argumentation, one could say that KRONOS is an even better hidden Personal Computer than the OASYS, with an Atom CPU, cooling fan, SSD Drive and probably still running on Linux like the OASYS.
And the OASYS doesn't just give you the feeling of playing a "real instrument", it IS a real instrument...
Best wishes

[Charlie]

He's a customer with a self inflated ego who feel he's owed something by Korg.

Well, you seem to know him well.

To fuel a similar judgment on my ego: I do think Korg owes us (= that is their customers - ALL their customers, not only Oasys customers) something. That is: a decent communication. It is common sense and by now common practice of many companies to answer to requests of their customers and take care of a community (provided a community has developed - most companies would love to have a lively community). At least the second point offers some potential for improvement.

[cello]

... and OASYS users are crying fowl because they apparently don't want Korg to release a new synth.

Really? I didn't realise that's what I was aggrieved about!

Korg has every right to release any instrument they want. What I believe they have done wrong is to say (if Kevin Nolan's position is to be adopted) 'that's no more for OASYS - get over it' - and then behind closed doors they keep working on the O for a different, cheaper model.

Ever wonder why Korg have remained silent on the issue? Their most expensive unit ever, yet they can't do an email to registered users or post here and confirm the position with the O or respond to any posts that they deem to be wrong?

Is it perhaps because Korg has issued a gag order because they know that what they've done is at least misleading, bordering on lying and perhaps even commercial malpractice that could lead to litigation?

Or is it perhaps that they absolutely don't give a crap?

Whichever one it is, their silence is the biggest insult. If it's the former, all Korg has to do is to an O release and the problem goes away. If it's the latter then everyone who buys a Kronos better not expect any kind of loyalty, support or decent customer care.

[peter m. mahr]

Dany,

Kronos is OASYS II. Both use an architecture designed to run several different applications also at the same time. Or how would you explain running 4 KARMA scenes within a Combination consisting of HD1 and eg AL-1, MOD-7 programs with effects controlled by the ribbon at the same time? It uses a processor, a dedicated software, touchscreen, controllers, etc. etc. If it is more correct or pleasing they are both well hidden "music computers". That's fine with me. At the end it is all about the inspiration I get from an instrument and the way how I can get the sounds I want to. I do not mind whether it is "real" analog or virtual or whatever, it is all about the quality and OASYS is the best instrument so far I ever worked with.

Regarding "real instrument" - it was on purpose that I put it under "....", because this discussion of "real instruments" is as old as the one about acoustic and electronic instruments.

However, to me OASYS is both a well hidden computer and a "real" instrument.

Peter

[jimknopf]

He's a customer with a self inflated ego who feel he's owed something by Korg. Personally, I feel he's just another OASYS user who feels that Korg owes him something for being an early adopter.

It's not right that he hasn't heard from Korg but then again, if his correspondence is like any of the posts here by angry OASYS owners, his emails may be hostile and ignorant and I wouldn't answer either. Based on the tone of his blog, they probably were.

What kinda cracked me up was, the last piece of Korg gear he's purchased in the last 5 years is a 9.99 app?!? Yah, Korg will really feel the pressure...

-Mc

Quite a lot of judgement (He's a customer with a self-inflated ego ... he's just ...) and easily done assumptions (his emails may be hostile ...) in a very agressive answer.

Do you still remember that the matter I am concerned about is communication and respect? And overall company customer relations? I'm quite new to the forum as possible Kronos buyer and can't know details of your mutual relations. I can only give you feedback of what I noticed when I strolled through the Oasys and Kronos forums since I'm here. And I am quite sure from some talk I had with other possible Kronos buyers, that they have similar questions like I have.

You seem to think that Korg just owes nothing to Oasys buyers, which, frankly, would look quite freaky to me. If I had a reliable base of loyal high quality gear buyers, I would have to be an iditiot to nourish even the impression (however true to which degree), that I don't care too much and think their concerns could well be ignored more or less.

I don't know Peter Mahr, BTW, but his Blogasys was one of the nice Korg resources I found soon. I recognize something positive when I meet it, and also here in the forum I met a Peter who was helpful and not arrogant, just like other longtime users behaved very nice. I could not say the same thing about everyone in here after reading your post. Be aware that posts like yours don't help to resolve problems in a good way (which is my concern), but just put oil into fire by becoming offensive and rude. I am certainly not one who is impressed by such behavior.

I have experienced very positive and helpful comments from Korg staff members here in the Kronos forum, and that positive experience gave me the impression and the confidence, that with these competent and communicative people on board, communication problems can be solved and should be solved. Proper Korg communication with Oasys owners, if only to clarify what can be expected mutually and what not, should certainly be a part of the story from my view. I would like to be as confident as Kronos buyer, that this company will not duck away into certain kinds of non-communication after selling the Kronos well.

I think my concern is crystal clear and shared by many other present or future Korg users. What's wrong with looking for positive solutions?

[Hedegaard]

What am I missing?

Insight.
Knowledge.
Research of what you're talking about.
Conscience.
Manners.

We're griping about our missing EXf.
Which you don't know what is, because you and the rest of us have never seen it.....

[McHale]

We're griping about our missing EXf.
Which you don't know what is, because you and the rest of us have never seen it.....

Which I referenced in my post and you failed to quote. Here it is again:

I would think the thing that's a legitimate gripe is that Korg promised an expansion that they never delivered on, but they did provide more than they promised after it was discontinued.

I agree 100% that they made a promise that they never delivered on. Personally, I would have also been complaining about this since the day they said it was discontinued. But what I'm seeing are complaints that KRONOS has a feature that the OASYS doesn't and the OASYS should get it because Korg promised updates for "years to come." I'd say 5 or 6 years is a pretty good run and to be honest, the KRONOS doesn't offer a whole lot more than the OASYS. If Korg suddenly delivered on the infamous expansion, do you think the complaining would stop? It wouldn't and we all know that. Personally, I prefer the OASYS to the KRONOS in terms of build quality and features like the illimunated dials and sliders. The OASYS is no slouch and the lucky customers that have them should be enjoying them thoroughly for years to come. It will not be surpassed any time soon.

But let's go back a few years. Does anyone here remember the OASYS PCI card? These arguments are VERY similar to those when the card was discontinued. The key difference there was, the PCI card was not supported after Windows 98 though there was not a single technical reason it couldn't be upgraded to XP. Many many posts were posted all over the web asking Korg if they would release XP drivers and I seem to remember the answer going from, "we're looking into it and we'll have an answer for you soon" to absolute silence. That silence was deafening and lasted quite a while - long enough to sell every last card. Once the cards were all sold, it was announced it was discontinued and there would be no XP support. Just think how pissed THOSE people were that bought it and were told soon after that it would get ZERO updates.

My comment about Peter, believe it or not was more of a reaction to seeing yet another person making a public threat to never buy a Korg product again. I don't know Peter or know anything about him so the comment, while directed at him was poor word choice as it was a generality towards ALL of the people that have been making those statements on here.

But again, if you feel so strongly that Korg didn't release a single specific expansion, one that would make VERY little difference in the grand scheme of things, even though they DID deliver additional features and upgrades that were NEVER promised, than so be it. Stop buying Korg. Sell all of your stuff and buy whatever makes you happy and I hope your expectations of your new synth maker is just as high. This SINGLE missing EXf is not life or death and it doesn't stop your OASYS from being the powerhouse it is. There are much larger problems in the world to worry about. THAT'S my only real point.

[Dany]

Dany,

Kronos is OASYS II. Both use an architecture designed to run several different applications also at the same time. Or how would you explain running 4 KARMA scenes within a Combination consisting of HD1 and eg AL-1, MOD-7 programs with effects controlled by the ribbon at the same time? It uses a processor, a dedicated software, touchscreen, controllers, etc. etc. If it is more correct or pleasing they are both well hidden "music computers". That's fine with me. At the end it is all about the inspiration I get from an instrument and the way how I can get the sounds I want to. I do not mind whether it is "real" analog or virtual or whatever, it is all about the quality and OASYS is the best instrument so far I ever worked with.

Regarding "real instrument" - it was on purpose that I put it under "....", because this discussion of "real instruments" is as old as the one about acoustic and electronic instruments.

However, to me OASYS is both a well hidden computer and a "real" instrument.

Peter

Of course Peter... .forgive me, it was just my neurotic relationship to my beloved musical instruments and I tend to defend them like a father his children, if someone dares to compare them to a profane PC...

[X-Trade]

I agree that Korg could show more respect and courtesy to OASYS users.

However, I do not think EXf is a good example - Korg would have spent time developing an EXf if they thought something was missing from the OASYS' effects suite, which is frankly more than adequate already.

With the OASYS, Korg offered the possibility of development in a variety of areas, which I think they delivered on - on most fronts. Sure I was shocked with the dwindling possibility of the sequencer upgrade. But it doesn't make it any less capable of making music.

One trend which I think is fairly obvious in the industry of the past few years is that expansion options of any kind don't really sell that well. I imagine too many users did buy the OASYS at face value - those who aren't here, perhaps - and never did any upgrades or bought any additional engines. Indeed it was already a fantastic instrument before adding any additions.

And the hardware was on the verge of being outdated at the time of the OASYS' release even. A new hardware model would have to appear at some point. OASYS was the platform for research and development at Korg for half a decade - more than that if you consider how much time would have gone into it before it was released too.

I do feel a lot of sympathy for the OASYS users, but I also feel that lately these things have really got a bit out of hand. People always seem too obsessed with accumulating and not actually using what they already have to their full potential. We still have two fantastic products here - both OASYS and KRONOS. I'd still prefer to have an OASYS, to be honest.


Anyway, the main reason I wanted to write here was to point out that Peter's experience written in his blog is with regards to 'Korg & More' - an official Korg distributor company for a particular geographic region. If you are somewhere else, for example the UK or USA, etc. then your experience may be a lot different.

[ozy]

the last piece of Korg gear he's purchased in the last 5 years is a 9.99 app?!? Yah, Korg will really feel the pressure...
-Mc

yeah, the last piece of Korg gear I bought in the lat 18 months has been a malfunctioning, used dvp-1 for spare parts for 100 bucks.

unfortunately,

immediately before that, if the time frame is extended to 19 months, my Korg bill skyrockets to 4000 eur. Net of used stuff. Same for the previous years.

I don't know how much peter spent on korg in a 5 years+2 months time frame (I suspect it goes to 7000 euros, including a full fledged oasys),

but I know that in 2010 he spent another 7 grand for a Rhodes mk 7 instead of even taking a look at the SV-1.

So, he is a client with money, and will to spend it, not a big mouth brat.

Methinks that Korg has been losing such customers at a brisk pace.

Now, they are doing something about it:

the kronos looks finally like a good piece of gear. I plan testing it, and I have the money.

But if Korg pre-announces a "f*ck you Sir, what can I do for you today?" policy,

I will keep a distance between me and the Japs.

So, they didn't lost ONE Kronos sale with Peter, they already lost two. (Daz, three, I presume).

But after all, who am I?

Just a dumb customer.

Make all your old customers feel dumb: that's a GOOOOOD policy.

[peter m. mahr]

Of course Peter... .forgive me, it was just my neurotic relationship to my beloved musical instruments and I tend to defend them like a father his children, if someone dares to compare them to a profane PC...

Dany,

as I know you - and your two OASYS' - already a bit, I knew how you meant it and I am sure we agree on the fact that OASYS is one of the best instruments ever built.

Peter

[billysynth1]

The Oasys became available in 2005, the last Exs/i update we got was 20th Nov 2007 with the Brass sample. Those other minor updates were not a EXs or EXi, so i dont really count them as 'big, main' updates...that is, updates we paid for. I was p...issed off in the early days when they discontinued the O, big time..but i got over it and i will be buying an 88K.

Peter is a good kid...he should be free to have his say. If the O boys have something to say, let them be...the K boys dont have to come here to read it. Stay in the K zone

Regards
Billy

[Kontrol49]

Peter is a good kid...he should be free to have his say. If the O boys have something to say, let them be...the K boys dont have to come here to read it. Stay in the K zone

Regards
Billy

+1..

I'll be glad when the Kronos has finally started shipping...Perhaps those who slate the members in the "Oasys Mowners Club" will have something else to occupy themselves...

[peter m. mahr]

Anyway, the main reason I wanted to write here was to point out that Peter's experience written in his blog is with regards to 'Korg & More' - an official Korg distributor company for a particular geographic region. If you are somewhere else, for example the UK or USA, etc. then your experience may be a lot different.

Sorry that I overlooked this posting.

Thank you X-Trade for carefully reading and explaining.

I don't know how much peter spent on korg in a 5 years+2 months time frame (I suspect it goes to 7000 euros, including a full fledged oasys),

but I know that in 2010 he spent another 7 grand for a Rhodes mk 7 instead of even taking a look at the SV-1.

You are right (with the exception of the MK7 price ). As I am not sure whether you are checking your inbox here - I sent you a PM concerning Oberheim.

Peter

[TonyGen]

What's to know? The OASYS came out about 5 years ago, ran it's course and a new synth is out and OASYS users are crying fowl because they apparently don't want Korg to release a new synth. Sour grapes isn't too hard to figure out. It's one thing to state an opinion as most of the OASYS users have done. But it's another to go on and on and on and on ad nauseum about it and make threats that they're done buying Korg for ever and ever because someone expected the OASYS to be the best synth ever - for ever.

What am I missing?

I would think the thing that's a legitimate gripe is that Korg promised an expansion that they never delivered on, but they did provide more than they promised after it was discontinued.

The OASYS had more development and expansions for it than any other synth in Korg history. It's also STILL the most advanced workstation, bar none. You can continue to use it for a long, long time.

Life is short, it's time to move on.

Thanks for telling me how I should be thinking. That's something I always appreciate