Question about Korg R3

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Tue May 03, 2011 8:21 pm

Yea its warmer, assuming the R3 is dry ice and the others Liquid Nitrogen.

zalo · Post by **zalo** » Tue May 03, 2011 8:31 pm

Euros always get the short end of the stick don't they.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Tue May 03, 2011 9:02 pm

zalo wrote:Euros always get the short end of the stick don't they.

Considering how at one time your cash could buy twice the amount of gas that converted US cash could,

No.

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Tue May 03, 2011 10:56 pm

The R3 actually has it's own EQ section, so the overall tone can easily be adjusted to taste. When people say a synthesizer sounds cold, phat, thin, warm, dry, etc. it usually has more to due with the way the sound was programmed and the amplifier it's being played through.

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:00 pm

While I think that can indeed be the case, I do think different VAs have hugely varying sound quality, depending on how well they were programmed.

For example, in the world of VSTs, Sylenth sounds ten times better than V-Station to my ears.

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Wed May 04, 2011 12:18 am

The major difference I hear from one VA to another is how the filter sounds and how many oscillators are being used. Beyond that, it's just EQing and adding effects to taste. The R3 and Radias are unique though since you can select these different PCM waveforms to use as an oscillator. You can create some really great organ and piano sounds with these. I think that if Korg made the attempt to create a bank of acoustic sounding presets, you'd see more R3/Radias users out there. Typically it's the presets that make or break a synth. I've owned my R3 since it was first released, but have yet to see single person perform with either it or the Radias.

zalo · Post by **zalo** » Wed May 04, 2011 12:52 am

tpantano wrote:
zalo wrote:Euros always get the short end of the stick don't they.
Considering how at one time your cash could buy twice the amount of gas that converted US cash could,

No.

Often Instrument companies, charge more in euros for the same instruments/controllers. Off the top of my head, Novation Launchpad is 199 US/149 EU (220 US).

Re-Member wrote:The major difference I hear from one VA to another is how the filter sounds and how many oscillators are being used. Beyond that, it's just EQing and adding effects to taste. The R3 and Radias are unique though since you can select these different PCM waveforms to use as an oscillator. You can create some really great organ and piano sounds with these. I think that if Korg made the attempt to create a bank of acoustic sounding presets, you'd see more R3/Radias users out there. Typically it's the presets that make or break a synth. I've owned my R3 since it was first released, but have yet to see single person perform with either it or the Radias.

I generally try out every preset then wipe the memory and start fresh. With the Radias, even using the sub osc you need to crank the bass EQ to beef up the low end but kills the upper harmonics. Full beefy, growly bass sounds just don't exist with these synths. Neither do warm round happy fifth leads. Radias definitely has a place in my music though, but it usually acts at the filler, the supporting actor, never the star.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Wed May 04, 2011 1:02 am

Re-Member wrote:The R3 actually has it's own EQ section, so the overall tone can easily be adjusted to taste. When people say a synthesizer sounds cold, phat, thin, warm, dry, etc. it usually has more to due with the way the sound was programmed and the amplifier it's being played through.

Meh. you could make an 8000hz frequency sound warm through an amp.

Unless you dedicate a lot of the R3s resources to making a sound warm (waveshaping, EQ, patch bays and EFX) you can make it sortof warmish. Like lukewarm. And even then, you're wasting resources on just getting it warm, and therefore have less variety in changing the resulting 'warm' timbre.

X-Trade · Post by **X-Trade** » Wed May 04, 2011 1:06 am

A lot of it is just down to how you are programming it.

I can get some very warm sounds on the Radias just by using the drive and EQ. And yes, that is using up resources, but the chances are if you want a 'warm' sound then you're going for that traditional analog sound where you're not going to be using the more exciting digital features of the synth like waveshaping anyway.

tpantano, it really sounds like you've got yourself stuck into a rut programming. I know I used to do it - you develop a certain approach to making sounds which isn't always appropriate especially when your tastes or needs in sound design change, and sometimes a different approach is needed. For a while I was stuck in only trying to make the sounds warm and not experimenting enough. AFAIK quite the opposite to you.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Wed May 04, 2011 1:36 am

X-Trade wrote:A lot of it is just down to how you are programming it.

I can get some very warm sounds on the Radias just by using the drive and EQ. And yes, that is using up resources, but the chances are if you want a 'warm' sound then you're going for that traditional analog sound where you're not going to be using the more exciting digital features of the synth like waveshaping anyway.

tpantano, it really sounds like you've got yourself stuck into a rut programming. I know I used to do it - you develop a certain approach to making sounds which isn't always appropriate especially when your tastes or needs in sound design change, and sometimes a different approach is needed. For a while I was stuck in only trying to make the sounds warm and not experimenting enough. AFAIK quite the opposite to you.

heh, I'm fine programming for the moment ^.^ I just know not to expect really warm sounds . I'm using my R3 for nice and sterile house atm.

once I get my slim phatty in I'll do a sound comparison of the stereotypical 'moog bass' on it, compared to the R3. then, we'll see how warm it really is ;P

womoma · Post by **womoma** » Wed May 04, 2011 1:48 am

dont you mean phat?

I think I opened up a can of worms with my comments on things being "warm", "phat", or whatever.

I've owned and listened to a handful of synths both analogue and virtual analogue, and I understand the difference in sound between the two.

My point was that I've so far preferred what I've head of the R3, compared to its peer synths, such as the Micron, SH-201, Xio, etc.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Wed May 04, 2011 2:06 am

womoma wrote:dont you mean phat?

I think I opened up a can of worms with my comments on things being "warm", "phat", or whatever.

I've owned and listened to a handful of synths both analogue and virtual analogue, and I understand the difference in sound between the two.

My point was that I've so far preferred what I've head of the R3, compared to its peer synths, such as the Micron, SH-201, Xio, etc.

and yet the Microkorg beats them all
/la sigh

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Wed May 04, 2011 2:30 am

How is applying EQ and effects using up resources? That's what they are there for. As for the R3 not being warm compared to something like the Moog Slim Phatty, the Moog has an analog filter and the R3 has a digital filter. They are obviously going to sound different. I don't know why people try to debate whether or not a virtual analog machine sounds warm, thick, wet or whatever enough. The clear answer is that if you want real analog, you buy real analog. Virtual analog exists as the practical alternative.

tpantano · Post by **tpantano** » Wed May 04, 2011 2:43 am

Re-Member wrote:How is applying EQ and effects using up resources? That's what they are there for.

Let's say you want to have a bass with a subosc, chorus, a flanger, and stereo delay. if you want to do this, you can't get it really warm because you won't be able to use drive, a tube sim, distortion etc. in conjunction with your other waveshape/effects.

As for the R3 not being warm compared to something like the Moog Slim Phatty, the Moog has an analog filter and the R3 has a digital filter. They are obviously going to sound different. I don't know why people try to debate whether or not a virtual analog machine sounds warm, thick, wet or whatever enough. The clear answer is that if you want real analog, you buy real analog. Virtual analog exists as the practical alternative.

And I never said the R3 should be analogue or warm ^.^ I just said that it really wasn't. VA along with VST are a new breed

Take a look at Razor, for example. It sounds completely awesome, but it's almost the opposite characteristic of analogue- it is very cold and sterile!

Likewise, the R3 is good for what it does. It's just not warm or phat, be that good or bad.

As a side note, real analogue is hella expensive D: I just spent $850 on a synth that has roughly the same features as my father's 31 (?) year old MaxiKorg (excluding arp and patch save).

On another side note, MS2K/MK are digital filters yet they've got a nice purr ^.^

Re-Member · Post by **Re-Member** » Wed May 04, 2011 3:45 am

tpantano wrote:Let's say you want to have a bass with a subosc, chorus, a flanger, and stereo delay. if you want to do this, you can't get it really warm because you won't be able to use drive, a tube sim, distortion etc. in conjunction with your other waveshape/effects.

The warmth you are describing using those last effects is replicating the sound of the synthesizer being played through an amp. This is what I was stating earlier about how most of this supposed warmth of a synthesizer is not the synth itself, but the amp. Warmth is actually one of those terms that guitar players use when describing the sound of an amp. The irony here is that when synthpop came out, rock music critics complained endlessly about how cold everything sounded.