New digital Piano coming on Namm 2012 with Kronos SGX + Ep

[danatkorg]

But what I'd really REALLY want is a Kronos spin-off with just the synth engines. No HD-1, no SGX-1, no EP-1, just all the other synth engines.

What would be the advantage of leaving these out?

[Bruce Lychee]

But what I'd really REALLY want is a Kronos spin-off with just the synth engines. No HD-1, no SGX-1, no EP-1, just all the other synth engines.

What would be the advantage of leaving these out?

I'm not sure about a market for that product but if you guys put the killer piano and EP engines in a SV2 with a better action, I'm sure you will get a ton of interest. You guys have a Ferrari engine.... Don't stick it in a Kia.

[EvilDragon]

But what I'd really REALLY want is a Kronos spin-off with just the synth engines. No HD-1, no SGX-1, no EP-1, just all the other synth engines.

What would be the advantage of leaving these out?

Cheaper price, I hope. Well, with some new synth engines added, it would be a pretty cool VA board with versatile characters all around. There would be no need for SSD as there would be no sample streaming, but just pure emulations of vintage Korg synths.

You'd get a mid-tier to higher-mid-tier (available in 61- and 73-keys, semiweighted) board that quite a number of people I know would definitely get.


But that's wishful thinking. It's what I would really want for Korg to do, but I bet they won't, unfortunately.

[CfNorENa]

As a former M50-88 owner, I'd say RH3 is the nicest weighted keybed I've ever played on. But my experience is pretty limited -- I've never played on a high-end, dedicated stage piano. Nor would I expect the RH3 to compete with those. After all, a workstation is, almost by definition, a jack-of-all-trades, so it's unreasonable to expect any one part of it to compete with dedicated products. In fact, I'd say the only element in the whole of the Kronos package that can actually stand up to its dedicated competitors is the SG1-X piano engine. As a complete package, of course, I don't think it has any competitors at this time...

So I take Bruce's point about the need for a superior keybed/action if Korg wants a dedicated stage piano to beat all comers. That said, I find his characterization of RH3 to be too negative.

C'mon, Bruce, show some love for the Kronos!

[panrixx]

You must have a fundamentally different keyboard than I have. Why not take a close up picture for us and show us your uniquely perfect RH3.

Bruce,

Have you considered that it may, infact, be you who has the uniquely imperfect RH3? Why not post a photo that shows how really bad yours is?

[Bruce Lychee]

You must have a fundamentally different keyboard than I have. Why not take a close up picture for us and show us your uniquely perfect RH3.

Bruce,

Have you considered that it may, infact, be you who has the uniquely imperfect RH3? Why not post a photo that shows how really bad yours is?

Mine is bad, but every SV1 I have seen looks the same and every time someone posts a picture of their Kronos I see the uneven spacing. Plus, I hear it all the time from people who audition the SV1. At least half a dozen people I know loved the SV1 sounds but refused to buy it because of the action.

[Bruce Lychee]

As a former M50-88 owner, I'd say RH3 is the nicest weighted keybed I've ever played on. But my experience is pretty limited -- I've never played on a high-end, dedicated stage piano. Nor would I expect the RH3 to compete with those. After all, a workstation is, almost by definition, a jack-of-all-trades, so it's unreasonable to expect any one part of it to compete with dedicated products. In fact, I'd say the only element in the whole of the Kronos package that can actually stand up to its dedicated competitors is the SG1-X piano engine. As a complete package, of course, I don't think it has any competitors at this time...

So I take Bruce's point about the need for a superior keybed/action if Korg wants a dedicated stage piano to beat all comers. That said, I find his characterization of RH3 to be too negative.

C'mon, Bruce, show some love for the Kronos!

In many ways I do love the Kronos. Piano and EP sounds are fantastic. Synth engines are deep and equally amazing. Karma is killer. Other sounds, I'm not so impressed with. Physical construction is compromised in my opinion. I'm not going to give it a pass just because I'm on a Korg forum although I'm certainly not going to make many friends in the process.

The thing is, other companies also use their actions across product lines and the SV is a stage piano that had the RH3 before the Kronos. I want Korg to succeed, but as far as stage pianos go, action is critical and the RH3 is pretty mediocre in my opinion.

[panrixx]

Uneven spacing I have seen but, apart from one member, I have not seen multiple RH3s with uneven levels. The one member who had the uneven key had opened it up to do a memory upgrade, so that cannot be assumed to be representative.

[Bruce Lychee]

Uneven spacing I have seen but, apart from one member, I have not seen multiple RH3s with uneven levels. The one member who had the uneven key had opened it up to do a memory upgrade, so that cannot be assumed to be representative.

Not as bad as that member. I'm not home now but I will definitely post a picture. Ask for ugly and you will get it.

I have yet to hear any Korg rep deny that the RH3 was taken from discontinued Technics boards. If that is the case, it would explain alot.

[danatkorg]

But what I'd really REALLY want is a Kronos spin-off with just the synth engines. No HD-1, no SGX-1, no EP-1, just all the other synth engines.

What would be the advantage of leaving these out?

Cheaper price, I hope. Well, with some new synth engines added, it would be a pretty cool VA board with versatile characters all around. There would be no need for SSD as there would be no sample streaming, but just pure emulations of vintage Korg synths.

That would mean cutting out the sampling+synthesis features of the STR-1 and MOD-7 - or at least their ability to use & process large sample libraries from the SSD. You also mention the M1 and Wavestation, both of which are based on samples. The HD-1 is already a superset of the M1 (if you're willing to accept the HD-1's much higher audio quality), and the Wavestation almost so (with the note that the HD-1's Wave Sequencing goes far beyond that of the Wavestation).

Even if you didn't want to use the STR-1, MOD-7, and Wave Sequencing with large sample libraries on an SSD, you'd still need a drive of some sort for the rest of the system, so I'm not sure how much you'd realize in cost savings.

I'm glad that you like the synthesis capabilities of the KRONOS. There are nine engines in there, and I expect that everyone will have different favorites.

[danatkorg]

Uneven spacing I have seen but, apart from one member, I have not seen multiple RH3s with uneven levels. The one member who had the uneven key had opened it up to do a memory upgrade, so that cannot be assumed to be representative.

Not as bad as that member. I'm not home now but I will definitely post a picture. Ask for ugly and you will get it.

I have yet to hear any Korg rep deny that the RH3 was taken from discontinued Technics boards. If that is the case, it would explain alot.

The RH3 keyboard are manufactured by Korg. They're not taken from discontinued anything.

[jimknopf]

Bruce, you pointed me to the Piano World Forum.
I checked it and was surprised to find the following comment from you, written a month ago:

"The action is a non issue to me at this point. It is responsive and precise, even if clicks. I would prefer the CP1 action but am happy with Kronos action." And later you added:
"Personally, I find the pianos on the Kronos to have the most organic sound of any DP I have played."

Then some strange guy did a really weird (from my view) review about the Piano sounds, seriously claiming that all other boards he played in the store (K88, CP5, 700 & 300 NX, Nord Stage 2 88, SV-1 88 , P155, MOX8 and S90XS) "smoked" the Kronos piano experience. Not much to comment on that from my side.

But on the same day you suddenly write:
"Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grown to prefer my SN piano sounds."

Even over there the sudden opinion change surprised someone enough to comment "Well, you did buy it - you must have been impressed at some stage!"

I don't cite this to make you look bad, but simply to remind you that some of us still have the same impression you first had yourself, and we just haven't seen any reason to change our minds.

I had a second look at my board, and there's minimal spacing variation (something I wouldn't call worth mentioning, but perhaps not perfect enough for your ruler norms), no disturbing click sounds (just normal playing sounds) and no uneven key heights. So I just can't follow your really harsh statements.

[danmusician]

I'm a little loathe to enter the keyboard action/touch debate here. As I said in another thread, it's like entering the Mac/PC debate. It's a waste of time in my opinion. Find what you like and play it and I'll do the same.

I'm only commenting here because of the accusations of quality, rather than preference.

I played the Yamaha CP-1 for an hour or more before I bought the Kronos. I also played the Roland V-Piano for a maybe 10 minutes or so. (As I said in the other thread, Roland doesn't do it for me, so I didn't spend a lot of time with it. Your mileage mary vary. If you like Roland gear, please play to your heart's content and make great music - and if the spirit moves you, share some of that music with me, I'd like to hear it!)

The Yamaha action was nice, I like the Kronos better. The Roland may be a very nice action, to me it felt like the key throw was a bit shallow. Not sure I could get used to it, but I don't care for the Roland dp timbre, so I'm not going to try. (Again, you may love it - if you own it, I hope you do!)

I've owned Yamaha gear and I'm a Yamaha fan. I think over time, nearly all keyboard actions lose their touch. Everyone I've played/owned has become less "stiff" over time. My employer bought a Kurzweil K2500. The action was beautful when we got it. A few years later it was crap. Same for some Yamahas we've had as well.

I believe that the R3 action would compete nicely in the digital piano realm. Maybe Korg has a better action up it's sleeve. It would be cool if it did.

My 73 has some slight variation in key spacing. I've seen as bad or worse on acoustic pianos. Short of buying a Steinway for 100K, not sure you'll find one that's perfect over time. The level of the keys look even to me. I don't notice anything when I play it - which is all I really care about.

My M3 feels like cheap crap in terms of build quality. My Kronos feels very solid in every respect. 20+ years ago, I never expected anything less than rock solid from Korg. Don't know what changed, but I hope they get their grove back!

[Bruce Lychee]

Uneven spacing I have seen but, apart from one member, I have not seen multiple RH3s with uneven levels. The one member who had the uneven key had opened it up to do a memory upgrade, so that cannot be assumed to be representative.

Not as bad as that member. I'm not home now but I will definitely post a picture. Ask for ugly and you will get it.

I have yet to hear any Korg rep deny that the RH3 was taken from discontinued Technics boards. If that is the case, it would explain alot.

The RH3 keyboard are manufactured by Korg. They're not taken from discontinued anything.

Ok thank you. Then what is with the lack of consistency in manufacturing?

I honestly just want to see an improvement on the RH3 because I think the you guys are an action away from having everything for the perfect digital stage piano. Something that could indeed be a game changer in that market.

[Bruce Lychee]

Not the same day at all.

Chris, you pointed me to the Piano World Forum.
I checked it and was surprised to find the following comment from you, written a month ago:

"The action is a non issue to me at this point. It is responsive and precise, even if clicks. I would prefer the CP1 action but am happy with Kronos action." And later you added:
"Personally, I find the pianos on the Kronos to have the most organic sound of any DP I have played."

Then some strange guy did a really weird (from my view) review about the Piano sounds, seriously claiming that all other boards he played in the store (K88, CP5, 700 & 300 NX, Nord Stage 2 88, SV-1 88 , P155, MOX8 and S90XS) "smoked" the Kronos piano experience. Not much to comment on that from my side.

But on the same day you suddenly write:
"Hey they hate me over at the Kronos forum because I love my Jupiter and am not overly impressed with my Kronos. Even on the synth end I prefer my Rolands and soft synths. I still love the EPs, but I have grown to prefer my SN piano sounds."

Even over there the sudden opinion change surprised someone enough to comment "Well, you did buy it - you must have been impressed at some stage!"

I don't cite this to make you look bad, but simply to remind you that some of us still have the same impression you first had yourself, and we just haven't seen any reason to change our minds.

I had a second look at my board, and there's minimal spacing variation (something I wouldn't call worth mentioning, but perhaps not perfect enough for your ruler norms), no disturbing click sounds (just normal playing sounds) and no uneven key heights. So I just can't follow your really harsh statements.