Korg Forums

Bruce Lychee wrote:Bigger hard drives prompted by decreasing storage prices is completely different than a change in design prompted by a recognized flaw in design. Surely you don't believe Korg changed the RH3 design so early in the Kronos product cycle simply because a few users were having issues?

You might feel there is no advantage to getting the new keybed but others have reported otherwise. Furthermore, if there is no advantage to the new keybed why do you think Korg changed the design going forward? Also, with a non transferable warranty, good luck to anyone trying to sell a Kronos with the old RH3. At the very least, you can expect to take several hundred dollars off the selling price of your Kronos.

That's why there's a warranty. You have at least 1 year to "develop" the problem. If it hasn't happened within a year, the likelihood of it developing later isn't very great. However, because I'm curious: Can you tell me the difference between the original RH3 and the newest RDP RH3 as well as what the software update does?

EVERY early adopter knows that as they continue to manufacture the product, they will refine and fine tune it as it continues as a product. It's very common for electronic products to go through several revisions throughout it's short life. For example, I have two Logitech Harmony One remotes. There are 5 hardware revisions between the two. There's nothing wrong with the first one but the latest one must be better, right? So am I entitled to it?

DZarob wrote: 1. Aren't you at all worried about the problem cropping up after the warranty period expires?

Not really. At least in the U.S., if the problem doesn't surface after two years I doubt it will ever surface.

DZarob wrote: 2. Aren't you worried at all about resale value of your Kronos should you decide you need to sell it at some point? People are going to ask if you have had the keybed replaced, and if not, won't be willing to pay top dollar for your Kronos, for fear of having the keybed problems surface on them, after the warranty has expired.

No. If the keybed doesn't have the problem when it is sold, it should be fine.

If the problem ever did surface, I would think Korg would replace the keybed even after the warranty period, since it is a documented problem.


Finally, while these discussions are interesting, I don't see how keeping the original thread open helps. Some people are satisfied with Korg's response, while others are not. I don't think additional discussion is going to change anyone's opinion.

Is it possible the people never having issues with their Kronos are the ones in which their Kronos always stays in the same spot, same environment all the time - never being moved? PLEASE DON"T KILL ME WITH NEGATIVE RESPONSES. I'm just asking if it's possible.

What if moving it from heat to cold has something to do with the problems? Constantly moving it from different environments, different temps? Different humidity levels? etc etc.

Let's say someone that has used the Kronos for over a year in their home studio with no issues with the keybed (and then their warranty runs out) and then they start gigging with it. And the problems start to appear. Randomly. Is this possible? How much fun would that be?!?!

We don't know the exact cause of the problems, Korg won't reveal it.

My Kronos is fixed. I just hope for the best for all of you that are not going to get your keybed replaced (because you don't have problems now). I just hope they don't crop up later on you. And if I'm ever in the market for a used Kronos 88, the first thing I will ask is if the newer keybed is installed. Otherwise I won't buy it. Just saying.

Good luck to all. Time to start programming my Kronos for my shows, now that it's 100%.

DZarob wrote:Is it possible the people never having issues with their Kronos are the ones in which their Kronos always stays in the same spot, same environment all the time - never being moved? PLEASE DON"T KILL ME WITH NEGATIVE RESPONSES. I'm just asking if it's possible.

What if moving it from heat to cold has something to do with the problems? Constantly moving it from different environments, different temps? Different humidity levels? etc etc.

Let's say someone that has used the Kronos for over a year in their home studio with no issues with the keybed (and then their warranty runs out) and then they start gigging with it. And the problems start to appear. Randomly. Is this possible? How much fun would that be?!?!

We don't know the exact cause of the problems, Korg won't reveal it.

My Kronos is fixed. I just hope for the best for all of you that are not going to get your keybed replaced (because you don't have problems now). I just hope they don't crop up later on you. And if I'm ever in the market for a used Kronos 88, the first thing I will ask is if the newer keybed is installed. Otherwise I won't buy it. Just saying.

Good luck to all. Time to start programming my Kronos for my shows, now that it's 100%.

My first Kronos (which is now fixed, s/n 442) was always at my home studio, never moved, had the problem after a few weeks, disappeared for nearly two months, then had the problem consistently after that.
At the time when I ordered a 2nd Kronos for another location, it had the problem right out of the box, as did the 3rd (which the 2nd was exchanged for).

However... I did notice (as did someone else) that the problem got worse as the temperature increased.

I don't think that moving the Kronos (as in gigging) or keeping it in one place had any impact on whether the problem occurred or not. While those are good possibilities, we simply don't know the cause... in my situation I can only confirm that higher room temperatures made the problem worse.

I say close the thread also. It was usefull when the problem was first encountered but now that it has been recognized by Korg, it's useless.

If you have a faulty keybed, get it fixed.

\thread

McHale wrote:

Bruce Lychee wrote:Bigger hard drives prompted by decreasing storage prices is completely different than a change in design prompted by a recognized flaw in design. Surely you don't believe Korg changed the RH3 design so early in the Kronos product cycle simply because a few users were having issues?

You might feel there is no advantage to getting the new keybed but others have reported otherwise. Furthermore, if there is no advantage to the new keybed why do you think Korg changed the design going forward? Also, with a non transferable warranty, good luck to anyone trying to sell a Kronos with the old RH3. At the very least, you can expect to take several hundred dollars off the selling price of your Kronos.

That's why there's a warranty. You have at least 1 year to "develop" the problem. If it hasn't happened within a year, the likelihood of it developing later isn't very great. However, because I'm curious: Can you tell me the difference between the original RH3 and the newest RDP RH3 as well as what the software update does?

EVERY early adopter knows that as they continue to manufacture the product, they will refine and fine tune it as it continues as a product. It's very common for electronic products to go through several revisions throughout it's short life. For example, I have two Logitech Harmony One remotes. There are 5 hardware revisions between the two. There's nothing wrong with the first one but the latest one must be better, right? So am I entitled to it?

The difference, as others have described, seems to be at the contact point, with a different part now being used for the contact point of each hammer. My guess would be more mass or a material with less bounce, but im not really sure there. Rich commented on the OS update in the RH3 thread.

Do you really think hardware revisions to a universal remote issuer similar to what happened witht the RH3? This isn't about demanding the latest iPhone for free. We are talking about Korg recognizing a flaw in the design of the main user interface for the Kronos and developing an updated design that will be used on all Kronos going forward.

I understand that cost may not make it feasible for them to replace every outstanding RH3, but I don't think sticking it those that supported the Kronos by buying early should be the answer either.

DZarob wrote:Is it possible the people never having issues with their Kronos are the ones in which their Kronos always stays in the same spot, same environment all the time - never being moved? PLEASE DON"T KILL ME WITH NEGATIVE RESPONSES. I'm just asking if it's possible.

Pretty sure, no. The fix was not something that would change in any way by moving or dropping or anything like that.

Bruce Lychee wrote:The difference, as others have described, seems to be at the contact point, with a different part now being used for the contact point of each hammer. My guess would be more mass or a material with less bounce, but im not really sure there. Rich commented on the OS update in the RH3 thread.

The change in keybeds is minuscule. But if you have the double trigger problem, it's a needed fix. If you don't, you don't.

The software update is arguably unnecessary and just because you have 1.5.2 installed doesn't mean you ACTUALLY have the software fix enabled. It has to be enabled in the service mode and all it does is change the velocity table. I'm betting a good percentage of the people that have 1.5.2 installed, do not have the RDP keybed fix enabled. And the vast majority of the people that do or not have it enabled could possibly notice a difference as the adjustment is very, very slight.

McHale wrote:

Bruce Lychee wrote:The difference, as others have described, seems to be at the contact point, with a different part now being used for the contact point of each hammer. My guess would be more mass or a material with less bounce, but im not really sure there. Rich commented on the OS update in the RH3 thread.

The change in keybeds is minuscule. But if you have the double trigger problem, it's a needed fix. If you don't, you don't.

The software update is arguably unnecessary and just because you have 1.5.2 installed doesn't mean you ACTUALLY have the software fix enabled. It has to be enabled in the service mode and all it does is change the velocity table. I'm betting a good percentage of the people that have 1.5.2 installed, do not have the RDP keybed fix enabled. And the vast majority of the people that do or not have it enabled could possibly notice a difference as the adjustment is very, very slight.

If the change is minuscule and generally unnecessary, why are they implementing it in all boards manufactured going forward?

The only issue I noticed on that thread was Korg fanboys ripping into people who felt they had been dudded by Korg.

Bruce Lychee wrote:If the change is minuscule and generally unnecessary, why are they implementing it in all boards manufactured going forward?

Because if there's something they can do to improve anything going forward for no additional cost in the manufacturing process, why not?

Don't take my word for it, go back through this (or the monster) thread and someone who had the work done already explained what they changed. The technician showed him. Don't take my word for it. He explains it pretty well.

I don't know if we will be told, but what I am curious about is whether there is a consistent explanation for why the problem happens in the first place. Is there something in the hardware manufacturing that results in parts that alone are "within spec" but together have some probability of causing the problem?

I would wonder whether the keybed replacement is really a brute force solution because it is one of those ghost in the machine problems that can't be easily explained?

I don't remember if it's been said already, but is this the same keybed that is in the SV-1 and other boards? If so, why hasn't the problem manifested on those?

Then again, I'm pretty ignorant of the electronics and mechanicals of keybeds, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.

rob314159 wrote:I don't remember if it's been said already, but is this the same keybed that is in the SV-1 and other boards? If so, why hasn't the problem manifested on those?

Dan explained before the Kronos was released that the RH3 in the Kronos is a different design than the SV-1 or M3.

The last few pages of the mega thread deteriorated needlessly.

The value of discussing the topic in a civil manner, however, has not been diminished IMO. There are still valid questions that need to be addressed, and equally valid points continue to be made. Closing the thread won't likely make these questions disappear, and will only serve to censor further useful discussion. I'm not sure that's the best way forward for anyone with an interest in how the fix to the problem is being implemented by Korg.

The RH3 design has been altered for a reason, and all Kronos owners should continue to be entitled to voice their concerns in this regard.

rrricky rrrecordo wrote:The last few pages of the mega thread deteriorated needlessly.

The value of discussing the topic in a civil manner, however, has not been diminished IMO. There are still valid questions that need to be addressed, and equally valid points continue to be made. Closing the thread won't likely make these questions disappear, and will only serve to censor further useful discussion. I'm not sure that's the best way forward for anyone with an interest in how the fix to the problem is being implemented by Korg.

The RH3 design has been altered for a reason, and all Kronos owners should continue to be entitled to voice their concerns in this regard.

The mega thread was about a faulty RH3 keybed. That issue is now resolved and is a non-issue. The moderators have stated in the past about closing the thread since the fix was announced.

As for unanswered questions there's no "censorship", those questions are AFTER the fix was announced and would warrant opening a NEW thread.