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KARMA-Motif video was EXTREMELY well done Stephen!
So, that was an easy yes on the poll.
--SV

Great job done Stephen Kay ... again !

btw, there's no price mentioned in this thread, so people voting yes are basically signing a blank check ?

mathieumaes wrote:btw, there's no price mentioned in this thread, so people voting yes are basically signing a blank check ?

No, it was mentioned - I said as long as it was about the same price as the Motif version....I read on the Karma forums somewhere, that it is to be about $139 USD (which I also wrote in a previous post here)...but as it has not gone officially on sale that figure is still an estimate.

miden wrote:I read on the Karma forums somewhere, that it is to be about $139 USD (which I also wrote in a previous post here)...

That is not correct. But let me try to respond to the questions being discussed here more fully later today.

StephenKay wrote:

miden wrote:I read on the Karma forums somewhere, that it is to be about $139 USD (which I also wrote in a previous post here)...

That is not correct. But let me try to respond to the questions being discussed here more fully later today.

Sorry SK, my bad...it was $199 not $139 (I mis-read it) http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17663

- still WAY cheap imho!! We will look forward to further info from you later I am sure!!!

Thanks so much for taking time to get involved in the thread, it is really appreciated

Dennis

PS: imho, Karma 3 is so good, I may even consider ditching the Kronos, buying a Motif and putting up with having to lug a PC to a gig - IF we cannot for whatever reason get it for the Kronos....as good as the Kronos sounds, the musical scope and creative genius that Karma 3 will give is not optional, I reckon it is ESSENTIAL!!!

miden wrote:PS: imho, Karma 3 is so good, I may even consider ditching the Kronos, buying a Motif and putting up with having to lug a PC to a gig - IF we cannot for whatever reason get it for the Kronos....as good as the Kronos sounds, the musical scope and creative genius that Karma 3 will give is not optional, I reckon it is ESSENTIAL!!!

Whilst I wouldn't get a Motif to get it, Kv3 is an amazing step up; an exciting development of what the OASYS has on board.

Stephen - if you're in the mood to take some questions on this; is it possible in some way to have v3 on the OASYS? (I'll pay over the odds for it! )

Hi all,

(I started to write a reply and it turned into a "book" - oh well...)

I wasn't planning to start my own discussion of KARMA 3 here at KorgForums, since it really only exists
for the Yamaha Motif XS and XF at this time and this is primarily a Korg board, but since somebody else
started one, I'm happy to answer some questions and provide some information.

The OP (miden) has made a poll, but it's a little confusing to me what this is actually about. "Would you
buy KARMA 3.0 for the Kronos?" As what? A software program that runs on your pc/mac? An actual Korg
Kronos OS update that puts KARMA 3.0 into the Kronos itself? Those are two quite different things...

Regarding KARMA 3.0 - it's been over 3 years since I was last able to release anything new regarding the
KARMA engine inside Korg Products - that was KARMA 2.2 for the final M3 and OASYS OS versions, and
that's the version that's in the Kronos as well. But needless to say, I've got a lot of ideas for future KARMA
improvements and features, and hence I've been working on this new version for the past several years.

At the moment, KARMA 3.0 is a software-only product, and only for the Motif XS and XF. I'll be releasing
some documentation soon about what exactly is new in 3.0 vs. 2.2, but until I do, the
KARMA Motif Video Introduction I mentioned above touches on a number of new
features and changes and provides an entertaining overview.

Is it possible to make a similar KARMA 3.0 software version for the Kronos (and or other Korg boards that
have KARMA, such as the M3 or OASYS) that would work on the pc/mac, but not be internal to the keyboard?
Yes. Is it going to happen? Honestly, I do not know at this moment.

Someone mentioned price. As is typical for my KARMA software that goes with a product that does not have
built-in KARMA, KARMA Motif will sell for $199 US. If you own other KARMA software programs already, you
may qualify for our customary "Previous Owner Discount" of $40. There is also a
promotion being run by Yamaha US whereby you get a uniquely-coded coupon for a
$40 discount as well (20% off) as part of their 10th anniversary pack - sorry, they cannot be combined.

The software should hopefully finally be released in the next 2-3 weeks; I've got a (somewhat daily)
progress-update thread going on here for anyone who's interested.

Regarding putting KARMA 3 inside a Korg product, i.e. Kronos, I can't get too deeply into commenting on that,
other than to say there's been a shortage of resources for a long time in Korg's engineering dept., and I think
you can see from the fact that it's been three years since a KARMA update (other than bug fixes and making
it run on the Kronos) how high of a priority that is. Slightly frustrating to me, but I've accepted it and hence
am now moving forwards more on my own and targeting a new group of customers on a different platform.

On the other hand, of course I am overjoyed that KARMA 2.2 is inside the Kronos, and will be happy if it
ends up in any other future Korg products as well. That version still does quite a lot, as you know. And since
most of the work has already been done on it, it's easier for them to include than the prospect of a "new
improved version".

Trust me when I say that it would be a very very large amount of work (one might use the word "ginormous")
to put KARMA 3.0, in it's current form, into the Kronos. Many editing pages would need to be changed and/or
added. I would "never say never", but I would also not hold my breath.

However, I highly value the relationship with Korg, and will continue to support KARMA in Korg products to the
best of my ability, however long that goes on, and may very well consider a KARMA 3.0 software release
(pc/mac) at some point in the future for my current KARMA 2.2 Korg-related software apps (KARMA M3, M50,
Oasys, Kronos) - if I can get to it. Those of you who are not aware of my own support site and forums, please
check them out:

Karma-Lab site - home of KARMA Technology

Karma-Lab Forums - all you want to learn about KARMA and more - this is mainly where I hang out.

My next task, after releasing KARMA Motif, is to get all of my current KARMA apps for Mac running on Lion,
which they presently do not. 10.6.8 is the last version that they work under (due to them being PPC apps and
requiring Rosetta.) Windows XP, Vista, Win7 - not a problem.

Dreaming - what I'd really love to do is make a new dedicated workstation, based on KARMA 3 (or even
KARMA 4, which already has some entries in my development database for potential advancements), sort of a
Karma Workstation Mark II. Ah yeah, sure...

Incidentally, this is slightly different, but I've tried on-and-off to interest Korg Italy (different group of people
from Korg Inc.) in the possibility of a Korg arranger keyboard combining regular arranger features, and then
KARMA on top of it to add that slightly unpredictable human element and all of the randomization and
variability and interactivity that KARMA provides. I truly think that might be the best of both worlds. But
they seem quite happy with what they are doing there and basically seem to have no real interest. But I think
it would be very cool...and desirable... you can see from my new video (link above) that I tend to like the
more arranger-style approach with the KARMA Motif Performances, yet they are variable and "alive" to a
degree that no arranger actually is... but I'm just rambling right now.

But anyway, right now I'm just focused on releasing KARMA Motif, and seeing where it goes.

To answer some other questions or statements that have been made in this thread:

- I don't have an exclusive with anyone regarding KARMA Technology. I remain open and available to the
licensing of KARMA Technology. Korg has the right to continue using their present version (2.2) in new products
as they see fit, as long as they continue to follow the contract. And nothing presently precludes them from
using newer versions, other than doing the development with me...

- I myself chose the idea of making a version for the Motif, since it has been a highly successful product line
and hence has a built-in potentially large market for me. Yamaha doesn't have any rights regarding KARMA
Technology; there is no contractual relationship at the moment. However, I do have a long relationship with
Athan Billias (Yamaha USA Product Manager) from back when he was the head of Korg Voicing in Japan and
first brought me there to work on waveform editing for the Korg 01/W over 20 years ago, and now that he's
with Yamaha, when I approached him about the idea of KARMA Motif they were more than happy to provide
some development units and have promised to help in marketing and promotion. Yamaha has always had a
very good relationship with and support of third-party developers....

I hope that answers your questions and provides some relevant information with regards to this topic - probably
too much!

Thanks SK...that was really worth reading.

As to the purpose of the poll, it was more to awaken Korg to the idea that they could make some money from users willing to pay for an upgrade to the now quite old Karma tech inside the Kronos.

If they feel there is a market, then perhaps they may re-visit sponsoring a new version, but on the user-pays basis....

As for the work from you, again forgive my ignorance, I did realise there would be work involved, but as Karma is already mapped to controls on the Kronos, I thought it might be somehow easier to include some of the new features...the fill operations in particular. Without the need to use a PC to get it operating.

But as per your explanation this would take an enormous amount of work, and in a reality would not be possible. It was a nice dream I suppose, but the bare facts are there...if one wants Karma 3, then a Motif is the only way to get it....

Thanks again for your very honest and informative post

By the way...this paragraph was the most exciting even though Korg Italy have no interest :

Incidentally, this is slightly different, but I've tried on-and-off to interest Korg Italy (different group of people
from Korg Inc.) in the possibility of a Korg arranger keyboard combining regular arranger features, and then
KARMA on top of it to add that slightly unpredictable human element and all of the randomization and
variability and interactivity that KARMA provides. I truly think that might be the best of both worlds. But
they seem quite happy with what they are doing there and basically seem to have no real interest. But I think
it would be very cool...and desirable... you can see from my new video (link above) that I tend to like the
more arranger-style approach with the KARMA Motif Performances, yet they are variable and "alive" to a
degree that no arranger actually is... but I'm just rambling right now.


Now THAT would be one awesome performance machine!!!!
Cheers
Dennis

Hi Stephen

Seeing as Karma 3 is very unlikely to be integrated into the Kronos and any possible implementation would be running on a pc/mac, I wonder just how viable it would be to investigate writing a version for the iPad?

I'd be very loathed to gig with a PC, for reliability and streamlining reasons, but an iPad.....that's a game changer.

Cheers
Martin

Thanks for the reply Stephen.

I must admit that Karma is a big feature for me. Since discovering it with the original red beast, I've always thought this was one of the distinguishing and best features of Korg workstations.

Even if Karma 3 doesn't make it in a Korg, I would quite happily buy a software version to run it alongside the Kronos.

Having it run on iOS for portability would be a bonus.

So I voted yes, obviously.

Ernie Applelips wrote:I wonder just how viable it would be to investigate writing a version for the iPad?

+1

Stephen, just watched the introduction video, simply amazing!
It made me wish I had kept my XF. With the addition of your software, the Motif will truly be a great work station and add so much more enjoyment.
Love all the features and the interface looks simply beautiful. Thanks for filling us in..

StephenKay wrote:At the moment, KARMA 3.0 is a software-only product, and only for the Motif XS and XF. I'll be releasing
some documentation soon about what exactly is new in 3.0 vs. 2.2, but until I do, the
KARMA Motif Video Introduction I mentioned above touches on a number of new
features and changes and provides an entertaining overview.

Amazing video! Good KARMA...

Ya-ma-ha

Stephen Kay, very cool! Not entirely my cup of tea as I tend to hang out in the heavy rock band part of the world but still amazing.