What direction should Kronos take?

[MoonMusic]

I truly feel for Oasys users, they paid a fortune for it, but then they had to pay for all the EXi upgrades etc

I hear you there....But that's how ALL gadgets in the music world are...A good example is the Digidesign HD2 Accel system I just put together a few months ago...I've got about $3000 invested inluding plugs that was top of the line 8 years ago and would have cost you $30,000....You pay dearly to play on the cutting edge that's for sure......moon

[motic]

The next Kronos should come with Qui Robinez built in.

It is already implemented, you only have to find him

[ronnfigg]

The next Kronos should come with Qui Robinez built in.

I don't want to have to feed him!

[mm-pro]

I would like more physical modeling to be added...horns, woodwinds, bowed strings, & percussion. As an owner of an OASYS PCI card, I have a very good idea of the sounds possible with other Korg models and would like access to them in a modern instrument. I don't think we really need any more emulations of subtractive synthesis.

[JPWC]

more midi IO, bigger displays, more color, karma 3, more memory, increase midi note capacity to over 1 million notes in sequencer.

more more more

That's all we want.

If necessary, even "more of the same".

How about a multi-keyboard (like 32 channels) line mixer, no eq, no FX, just keyboard inputs.

MIDI routing/switcher, 8X8 built in to the keyboard. Now that's a workstation.

Korg should drop it's guitar accessory line.

[Kevin Nolan]

As an OASYS owner, user (and adorer), I'm confident that Korg are working right now on the 'next big workstation' - to be released in the next few years - that will contain radically different capabilities to the Kronos (take you pick - iPad integration, Ableton style sequencing, new synthesis types, ...). And - it will not be compatible in any way with Kronos.

Remember - Kronos is a derived technology from OASYS - it's how they made money from OASYS, and not a separately developed technology like M1, OW/1 and Triton. You can verify this already - even the M3 superior sequencer did not make it into Kronos because that would have required new development time Korg were not prepared (probably for budgetary reasons) to put into Kronos. So I don't see Kronos going anywhere in terms of a workstation development beyond perhaps one or two minor OS updates and the release of a few more sample libraries.

Overall, it appears that Korg's model is working for them based on developing separate and unrelated technologies catering for as wide a user base as possible (from Tuners to iPad apps to Arrangers to analog synths and workstations). In each of these divisions they seem to develop core technologies, and then repackage them several times over (OASYS --> Kronos, or Analog Legacy into all its incarnations). Once exhausted, they then seem to set off all over again on an entirely new path, releasing some radically new technology with no relation to previous releases, and start the cycle of multiple releases based on that, all over again.

So - the next major workstation from Korg will have absolutely no connection with Kronos. Brace yourself - it's the way of the world (as us OASYS users found our all to clearly when Kronos emerged).

Kevin.

[Melodialworks Music]

So - the next major workstation from Korg will have absolutely no connection with Kronos. Brace yourself - it's the way of the world (as us OASYS users found our all to clearly when Kronos emerged).

Kevin -

I follow your logic / prediction about the next major workstation from Korg having no connection with Kronos. However, I'm confused by your "as us OASYS users found our all to clearly when Kronos emerged" statement. Kronos, is essentially an OASYS with some features added and some removed. Should not have been surprising, apart from the length of time it took them to replace the OASYS!

Lawrence

[Kevin Nolan]

So - the next major workstation from Korg will have absolutely no connection with Kronos. Brace yourself - it's the way of the world (as us OASYS users found our all to clearly when Kronos emerged).

Kevin -

I follow your logic / prediction about the next major workstation from Korg having no connection with Kronos. However, I'm confused by your "as us OASYS users found our all to clearly when Kronos emerged" statement. Kronos, is essentially an OASYS with some features added and some removed. Should not have been surprising, apart from the length of time it took them to replace the OASYS!

Lawrence

Yes Lawerence - I should have qualified that better by indicating that OASYS owners by and large felt they were buying into a future with Korg though the open architecture - and after several years of exquisite updates then began to feel increasingly frustrated as a plethora of features were left unimplemented (especially in the sequencer department) while even the M3 saw significant such improvements. Even superior features of the Triton sequencer remained unavailable. So even though we thought we were buying into the future, that future didn't materialise.

When Kronos came out with no PCG format compatibility with OASYS (for sharing for example synthesizer program banks), it was a final reminder that OASYS was truly abandoned by Korg.

I for one accepted all of that - and even in heated debates on the OASYS forum I always defended Korg by suggesting that Korg's 'open architecture' could equally be viewed as a design philosophy which enabled the wondrous OASYS as it currently stands to have emerged (where otherwise it might not have been possible). One example of that is the commonality of features across all EXi's - allowing for a very modular approach to the design within Korg and arguably enabling a greater number of better, more varied synth engines to actually get done. Most on the OASYS forum however interpreted open architecture to mean an enabling of many future software developments to the OASYS both from within Korg and from third parties - and none of that every emerged.

So though I do not feel Korg owe me anything and I genuinely think the OASYS is the best thing since sliced-bread, many do not feel that way and felt abandoned.

So while you may see Kronos as a development from OASYS, many OASYS owners (who paid $8000 remember) do not see it as a true linear development with OASYS included in the lineage. Indeed even Korg utterly abandoned the connection during the Kronos launch - the total and utter lack of mention of OASYS during the Kronos launch was shocking - it clearly indicated that when the profit and loss sheet has to be managed, even Korg's prized creation over the previous decade could be abandoned to almost denial of existence by them.


So I hope you seem where I'm coming from - Kronos uses much of the OASYS technology and indeed is superior in some sample library and some OS areas (and has SSD technology), but is is not a true development on from OASYS. Many OASYS features are superior and were abandoned by Korg and do not appear on Kronos. Notably its physical chassis and overall physical implementation of Kronos is significantly inferior - from the stand point of tactile interaction with the physical chassis I mean - so there are many features of Kronos that are frankly cheaper and poorer and do not constitute a development. You might not care about these things but many do.

And - when OASYS was cancelled, arguably prematurely, we also saw some superior features appear on the M3 (Korg actually sent OASYS owners a survey for new features suggestions that then appeared on M3 and not OASYS!). I think we're seeing this with Krome already - I'll stand corrected on this as I haven't looked at Krome's feature set but believe I saw someone here mention that it has the superior sequencer features of M3, and hence already represents a new product that leaves Kronos inferior in that respect, and with no possibility of that being rectified in a new Kronos implementation.

So I'm saying you need to be careful about presuming Kronos has a future in the same way that Triton lead onto Triton Studio and Extreme. Kronos does not represent that kind of development on from OASYS (in some departments it does but in others it's significantly inferior - such as the above mentioned physical implementation, lack of pads, lack of 8 analog outs, the keybed issues, the smaller and unmovable screen and so on) - so do not expect a new Kronos with all of those features included or improved, or with feature wish lists generated here implemented, most especially sequencer improvements - they most likely will not happen.


It is far more likely that new thinking and market forces have already pushed Korg far and away from Kronos developments and onto something altogether different.

Kevin.

[blinkofanI]

I expect nothing less from Korg than a new built-in guitar tuner...

Blink

[JPWC]

I think the Kronos should turn left and keep turning left until we end up back where we started, i.e. the M1.

PS. I still have my M1, but the battery has died. don't have the backup memory card any more, guess I have to sysex the thing back to life.

[danatkorg]

I feel like it's necessary to address a couple of the posts above.

First, it's not correct that the Triton line always saw all features carried forward into the next model. In fact, the evolution of the Triton series saw an expensive model, the Triton Studio, followed by a less expensive model, the Triton Extreme. Various notable Triton Studio features were not found on its successor, including the built-in hard drive, hard drive recording, built-in CD-R/RW drive, sample expansion slots, ADAT option, and mLAN option. Of course, the Triton Extreme had new features as well.

Similarly, the base-model KRONOS is a whopping $5,000 less expensive than the base-model OASYS. That was an incredible achievement in making the OASYS technology more affordable. To get there, some of the more luxurious aspects of the OASYS were not duplicated on the KRONOS, including the folding screen and the fancy metal end-caps. Similar to the Triton Studio vs. Triton Extreme, the built-in CD-R/RW drive and drum pads were removed in favor of external USB devices, the ADAT option was removed, and the number of outputs cut from 10 to 6. That doesn't translate into the KRONOS not being a "true development from the OASYS," though - in fact, quite the opposite! In addition to being much more affordable, the KRONOS has, so far, added a ton of new capabilities in comparison to the OASYS, including Set Lists, Smooth Sound Transitions, sample playback from the SSD via virtual memory, two new EXi (the SGX-1 and the EP-1), user sample banks, etc. Seems like a lot of development to me, but what do I know?

Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[MoonMusic]

JPWC....It sounds to me like you want my digidesign HD system....I have the 96i module which has 16 quarter inch inputs (you could easily add a second for 32 but it can be expanded up to 192 inputs!!!) and a midi io module which has 10 midi in ports and 10 midi out ports (can be expanded to 4 boxes for 40 midi in ports and 40 midi out ports!!!).....I'm only running a few midi boxes though (Venom,Kronos,Macbook,Vdrums)....It's hard not to think about adding more modules though since the midi and audio is already in place for a few more.....moon

more midi IO, bigger displays, more color, karma 3, more memory, increase midi note capacity to over 1 million notes in sequencer.

more more more

That's all we want.

If necessary, even "more of the same".

How about a multi-keyboard (like 32 channels) line mixer, no eq, no FX, just keyboard inputs.

MIDI routing/switcher, 8X8 built in to the keyboard. Now that's a workstation.

Korg should drop it's guitar accessory line.

[jeremykeys]

Sadly I truly believe that in at most a few years the Kronos will be old news at Korg headquarters. On the plus side though, I think that those of us who have one will be hard pressed to plumb all of it's depths.
The Kronos has so very much to give that I seriously doubt that anyone will ever use all of it even with the short comings like the sequencer. I use the sequencer a lot and even though there are things that I'd like to see improved upon, I'm okay with it just the way it is. I don't have a DAW and I'm very used to using a Yamaha QX-3 for my sequencing and that puppy was made in the 80's!I still use it. No learning curve. and in it's day it was the state of the art. The very best you could get.

Think about it. Has anybody yet got every possible sound out of the Polysix or MS-20 engines? Well maybe QuiRobbens but he's from another planet! As for the rest of us mere mortals, I have yet to explore much beyond that. Hell, I don't even know the names of most of the engines so how am I supposed to know how to program them?
The Kronos, at this stage of the game, is the most comprehensive, versatile keyboard based work station in the world.
Let go of the short comings young padawons and let the force of Korg fill you with joy!

Now if only they'd hurry up and get the worm hole function fixed and properly connected to the Guiness Factory!

[MoonMusic]

I don't think they will abandon Kronos technology......I think they actually did change the game for a mass market keyboard....Until it came out, I didn't think I'd buy another keyboard workstation because the softsynths just sound bigger and all the keyboards on the market just didn't sound as spacious as what I'm getting out of soft synths....The problem with soft synths though is you start getting a fair amount of parts going and you run out of cpu.....I saw the Kronos as a great way to finish out a song with parts that sound every bit as good as the soft synths....The ability to stream from disk is HUGE in keyboard workstations....I remember when Gigastudio started the craze and now we have it in a keyboard!....Sure Korg might come out with a new workstation in another 3 years or so but I bet they don't abandon the technology but rather enhance it with faster processors and even more synth engines.....As for Oasys owners...You got to have the technology for many years before I as a Kronos owner got it and I'll never have the touch/feel of a much nicer made keyboard that you have....The components they used were top notch and that's where alot of your money went to as well....It absolutely gives you a great playing experience ultimately...If they used the same grade of components in the Kronos, the price would have been more comparable to the Oasys and I again would have had to pass on it so I'm happy for what the Kronos is (and isn't)....moon

[Dniss]

I truly feel for Oasys users, they paid a fortune for it, but then they had to pay for all the EXi upgrades etc

I don't really agree with this. They had years of pure enjoyment.

If I could have purchased one at the time, I would have.