Korg Forums

curvebender wrote:I realised a few days ago:

When I sit in front of my Kronos, and move the cutoff knob while playing the AL-1, MS20 or Polysix, all that happens is that I hear the cutoff frequency being changed. You say: well obviously, that's what it's there for! Absolutely, you're right.

But when I adjust the cutoff on the Kingkorg, something else happens. Yes, the cutoff is being changed, but I also hear music and inspiration. The harmonic spectrum is just amazingly rich.

As someone said, writing about music is like dancing about architecture, so words somewhat fail me now. (Also, english isn't my mother tongue.)

But the fact is that I can sit for hours listening to a simple up-down arpeggio om the KK, slowly adjusting the filter, or the filter envelope decay, and enjoy music in a grand way. All the Karma in the world can't help the Kronos here. The oscillators on the KK are probably also a big part of this.

(My first VA was the Yamaha AN1X, and there are some similarities in the sound: gentle, wide and opaque, but also harmonically pleasing.)

So, what am I trying to say here? Well, nothing more than this: I hereby declare the Kingkorg to be the king.

I also own an AN1x and really like it, but its way harder programming it to sound nice. The KK nearly always sounds great.

curvebender wrote:Features and specifications aside, the KK has something that the Radias doesn't: fantastic sound. It's easily the best sounding VA out there.

Yeah of course its not ALL about features, in fact I would say in general even the simple Waldorf Rocket sounds better than both the Korgs. That said the lack of a second filter, free LFO and third envelope on the KK in particular restricts creative patch construction compared with Radias, which is what i was trying to get at.

Both Korgs can sound good, just as a Minimoog and Prophet 5 can/do, but certainly different, and I think your preference of the KK sound is clouding your opinion of Radias because it is easily capable of making good sounds as KK is. If you cant get equally great results out of a Radias as the KK then maybe it is down to your lack of experience on it?

I certainly find in the shop the KK connects more with beginners and "Im not that into programming" gigging musos than advanced users, which is great as not everyone needs every synthesis feature on every synth, and in fact the synthesis simplification over Radias is the whole raison d'etre behind KKs design and feature set.

Slug,

Yes, you make some valid points.

What I was trying to say was this: in my opinion, the KK sounds so good that it makes up for what it lacks in features.

But having said that, of course I wouldn't mind an update with extra envelopes, extra LFO:s, extra everything!

Maybe the topic question itself is loaded? No they dont sound similar to me, but I neither do i think the KK is necessarily "better" sounding.

At the crux of it I believe they each have their own strengths depending on what you are trying to achieve, ie better interpolation and more tonal variety of filters on KK vs control of dual filters on Radias etc.

Different needs, different tastes.

The Minimoog was one of the most limited synths technically, and still I would prefer analog Moog synth sounds anytime over most of the rest for my own music making. But that's a matter of taste. Just to name one example: George Duke used ARPs for some of his signature lead sounds, despite liking and playing Moogs all his life.

To me the Waldorf Rocket sounds really poor in comparison to the KK, and for my personal taste the KK also sounds significantly better than the Radias.

But that's just a matter of taste, so what?
Keyboarders have their own taste and decide what they want and need, just like I do, and I completely understand and accept that anytime.

jimknopf wrote:Different needs, different tastes.

The Minimoog was one of the most limited synths technically, and still I would prefer analog Moog synth sounds anytime over most of the rest for my own music making. But that's a matter of taste. Just to name one example: George Duke used ARPs for some of his signature of lead sounds, despite liking and playing Moogs all his life.

To me the Waldorf Rocket sounds really poor in comparison to the KK, and for my personal taste the KK also sounds significantly better than the Radias.

But that's just a matter of taste, so what?
Keyboarders have their own taste and decide what they want and need, just like I do, and I completely understand and accept that anytime.

Great post Jim!

I auditioned KingKorg and while I like it, I am happy with the VAs in Kronos - you and I have agreed that we each have our opinions on this because our needs and our minds' ears hear differently. :

To the OP: As you see in my sig, I don't own a KingKorg. But I played one long enough that I think I can make a comparison based on what I hear which is subjective of course. I can also answer because I've had a Radias for three years.

Can these two powerful synths sound "similar?" Sure, in the sense that each shares the basics of every two OSC synth in terms of waveforms, filter envelopes, amp envelopes, etc. But, does one sound better than the other? To my ears, no. They sound different and that's the difference. They are comparable in that the price points of each are fairly close (assuming a Radias would be a "new" synth rather than a 2006 synth).

I have do respectfully disagree with Chriskk in his assessment of Korg's filters, but I do so knowing that he and I are hearing different things again in our minds' ears. I have created some very warm Radias patches and I have heard some very cold patches in the KingKorg. Someone else, Curvebender (cool name) stated that KingKorg has something that Radias lacks, namely fantastic sounds. Again I disagree. To me the Radias sounds fantastic. The video that Dniss provided really was amazing to watch and listen to. Props to Korg! KingKorg sounded damned close to the Prophet and Oberheim. As a Radias owner, I will concede that Radias would get its ass kicked in a comparison that sought similarities between a Prophet 5 and a Radias. But, that doesn't make Radiad any less of a great synth than the Prophet DESPITE the Prophet's legendary status - a status that is well deserved as is the respect that MANY players give Radias.

Jim and I had a discussion about AL-1 in Kronos. For Jim, KingKorg creates a more authentic analog experience than AL-1. Dan Phillips posted a great AL-1 tutorial however that demonstrates that AL-1 CAN sound very vintage. That said, AL-1 is a bear to work with. When I auditioned the KingKorg, I was creating interesting patches right at the store. So a point for Jim on the ease of getting there analog wise with KingKorg; it's really no contest! I'll just have to keep exploring AL-1, and besides, Polysix and MS-20 sound just find for my needs.

I am also happy with my Jupiter 80 because it gives me mammoth pads. Can it fool another musician into thinking she/he is hearing a Prophet, ARP, or Oberheim? Probably not. Does it matter? Depends on your needs.

When I am gigging, and I do the mellotron intro to Strawberry Fields, I use a patch on the PC3 called Strawberry Flutes. When audiences hear it, they KNOW what song I am playing. Thank heaven! I would never want to play a real mellotron under fire - I'm not that brave!

So to the OP, what are your needs? Radias can do things that King Korg cannot and vice-versa. If you want to process external sounds, you need a Radias. If you want uncannily close emulation of the great analogs of legend, the KingKorg is your huckleberry. (It's Kronos for me, sorry Jim LOL).

The thread has gone back and forth about which sounds better. The only answer ultimately can be what sounds best for you. It is a matter of taste and it is a matter of needs and wants. And what I want is what Radias does. What Jim and others want is what King Korg does. What Chriskk wants is whatever he finds in non-Korg VAs. So we agree and we disagree.

Coming to the end of this novel I'll say this: I don't care if a synth sounds exactly like another. I am a gigging musician and I write my own music. As a gigging musician, if the patches I am playing please the audience, I have done part of my job as a musician. I chose all of my gear for partly that reason. I auditioned an Integra-7 and after 1 hour, I knew that it wasn't for me. Sharp has one and for him it's a great synth. Cool!

Best advice? Audition a Radias and audition a KingKorg! I think that just like kittens and puppies, our musical instruments choose us. So after auditioning KingKorg and Integra-7, I bought a V-Synth. I'm very happy. I hope that you will be too with whatever instrument chooses you because you will make great music.

Best,
Vlad

PS: In addition to kittens and puppies, I wish Kate Beckinsale would choose me. Ain't gonna happen though.

Vlad_77 wrote:Someone else, Curvebender (cool name) stated that KingKorg has something that Radias lacks, namely fantastic sounds. Again I disagree. To me the Radias sounds fantastic.

To be absolutely honest, I wrote that in a state of serious Kingkorg excitement! There's nothing wrong with the Radias, it can make cool stuff, no doubt about it.

curvebender wrote:

Vlad_77 wrote:Someone else, Curvebender (cool name) stated that KingKorg has something that Radias lacks, namely fantastic sounds. Again I disagree. To me the Radias sounds fantastic.

To be absolutely honest, I wrote that in a state of serious Kingkorg excitement! There's nothing wrong with the Radias, it can make cool stuff, no doubt about it.

No worries Curvebender! I totally understand and in fact makes my point even more! KingKorg connected with you.

BTW, I love your sig! I am a HUGE Beatles fan and everytime I read your sig I am reminded of that story!! Thanks for the continued chuckle on that.

Best,
Vlad

Vlad_77 wrote:No worries Curvebender! I totally understand and in fact makes my point even more! KingKorg connected with you.

Yes it sure did, in fact, we're getting married next week!

Vlad_77 wrote:BTW, I love your sig! I am a HUGE Beatles fan and everytime I read your sig I am reminded of that story!! Thanks for the continued chuckle on that.

Finally!! It took 6 years before someone commented on that.. Curvebender is also Beatles related..

And would a certain member of this community have at least a passing connection to Curvebender? Those books looks gorgeous!

As far as your sig, I'm really surprised that someone didn't comment on it before!

So, GREAT to "meet" another Beatles fan!!

Best,
Vlad

curvebender wrote:http://www.abbeyroad.com/Products/Produ ... nder?r=s36

VERY cool! I want one!!

theres already plenty of detailed posts so im just going to make a subjective one about the sound of both. the kk has something authentic/real to the tones it produces,it has its own sound which is extremely important to me.i love it.the radias can have a more clinical/sort of generic sound but thats not a negative, its actually what i enjoy about it,not to mention i find it a blast to program and can get lost for hours. as far as the most analog sounding vas i wouldnt give either of them the top spots but i find myself reaching for them over the ones i would.

jimknopf wrote:Different needs, different tastes.

The Minimoog was one of the most limited synths technically, and still I would prefer analog Moog synth sounds anytime over most of the rest for my own music making. But that's a matter of taste. Just to name one example: George Duke used ARPs for some of his signature lead sounds, despite liking and playing Moogs all his life.

To me the Waldorf Rocket sounds really poor in comparison to the KK, and for my personal taste the KK also sounds significantly better than the Radias.

But that's just a matter of taste, so what?
Keyboarders have their own taste and decide what they want and need, just like I do, and I completely understand and accept that anytime.

i have a model d, i think the endless amounts of emulations out there have definitely over hyped its legend, but..... i do love my other moogs and agree completely with everything youve written.

Lando2 wrote:
I also own an AN1x and really like it, but its way harder programming it to sound nice. The KK nearly always sounds great.

i find its hard to program a an1x to not sound nice. fantastic sound and inexpensive.my favorite combination.