Sample Problems

[burningbusch]

What exactly are the parameters you set when saving the sampling data? Also, what exactly is the condition of RAM? You can check by going into GLOBAL==>BASIC==>KSC-AUTO LOAD. You will see BLUE for EXs/USER BANKS (streaming); RED for any samples loaded into RAM and GREEN for free RAM. Look at this prior to saving. If you use the CLEAR ALL option it should look identical when you re-load the KSC assuming there were no other KSCs/EXs loaded.

Busch.

[LZ]

I've just been selecting "Save All" and pointing it to the directory I want to save to.

Currently, in Global>Sample Manage

814 EXs/User Bank, 2 sampling, 171 free

But there are a whole bunch of samples that I lost that are not loaded.

My songs do not have any audio tracks, just MIDI sequences.

[hammondcuni]

LZ I found this video and it might be they way to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amjfwxxq ... ata_player

[Phinnin]

I guess it's my turn to learn this system better and avoid the .ksc hording problem I seem to have developed.

So I am having serious issues in managing and predicting my samples. I start with a functioning .ksc that works. However, it has several multi's loaded several times each so it takes up 90m when it should take up 14 or so.

So I autoload oct 13.ksc (the last known good file). Sure enough, samples are all there (even though it's 889m, when the preload is 814m). So I then go into sample management and notice that I have multisamples loaded 3 times each (newMS____000-r and -l, Intros and Cars Yammy) which are all in the 11-13m size each; but three times. So I manually unload the repeats until I have just what I need. I go to look at my sample list and everything I need is there.

So now I go and assure that all my samples are saved to programs and re-point all my combi's to the correct new programs to assure that I wasn't pointing towards an unloaded sample (or bad program).

So far so good. I now save the PCG, and save sampling data as a new .ksc file (OTR 2).

Now I go into KSC autoload and deselect oct 13.ksc and select OTR2.ksc. When I force an autoload, all of the samples are gone.

What am I doing wrong? I've read 10 threads on the subject and I've tried this several times in the past several months and all I end up with is another stack of broken .ksc files.

All I want is to clean up what I have into a working set of samples that aren't' repeated several times.

As a side note, loading a * _user bank.ksc has NEVER worked for me. I always have to load the regular KSC to have any samples load successfully. What else am I doing wrong?

[danatkorg]

I believe the reason that you're having issues with User Sample Banks is that you are loading an existing KSC, editing it to become something completely different, and then saving it back to disk as a separate KSC without changing the unique ID. Here are some examples of how to work with User Sample Banks; let me know if they are helpful!

Case 1: Revising or refining an existing User Sample Bank

Let's say that you have a set of samples in a User Sample Bank, and you want to make a few changes to improve or expand it. You load the data into Sampling Mode and perform your edits, such as improving loop points, changing multisample mapping, maybe even adding a few related samples. When you save your Sampling Data, do NOT use the "Force new User Sample Bank ID" option. Leaving this un-checked means that the User Sample Bank retains its identity; any Programs or KSCs which refer to it will continue to function as expected.

Case 2: Changing an existing User Sample Bank into something different

You might sometimes load data into Sampling Mode and edit it substantially, changing a lot of the sample data, and wish to save the result as a completely new User Sample Bank - rather than over-writing the original data. In this case, when you save your Sampling Data, save it with a different name and enable the "Force new User Sample Bank ID" option. This ensures that the original User Sample Bank, and any Programs or KSCs which refer to it, will continue to function as expected.

If you have Programs, Wave Sequences, etc. that you want to switch from using the original User Sample Bank to the new one, use the Remap MS/Sample Bank References menu command to do so.

Note that if you are a normal user (as opposed to a sound developer creating a file for distribution or sale) and you just want to add or remove Multisamples or Drum Samples - for instance, in order to save memory or create a "best of" KSC - you should NOT do this; instead, see Case 3 below.

Case 3: Creating "best of" or "stripped down" KSCs

The great thing about User Sample Banks is that they let you use their data by reference, instead of by copying and editing the data itself. Let's say that you have three User Sample Banks: CoverBand.KSC, SoloProject.KSC, and Experimental.KSC. You can then create additional KSCs to do the following:
A. Combine all three KSCs into a single master KSC, which you can load in a single step
B. Create different stripped-down versions of CoverBand.KSC, each containing the samples for a few of the songs.
C. Create a "best of" KSC with only your favorite samples from the three KSCs.
All of these would take up very little additional space on the disk, don't require any editing in Sampling Mode, and don't require you to edit the original data in any way.
For more information, see "Creating and saving .KSC files" in the Operation Guide.

[LZ]

Let me make sure I understand a couple things:

You cannot edit from a _userbank.KSC, you have to load the .KSC then resave to create a new _userbank.KSC - but if you create a new file rather than resave the old file, programs will point to the old file, not the new file? That is, unless you go into the program, repoint to the sample, and resave that program.

Once you get to a point where I am where everything is just messed up with multiple files and things not pointing right, some samples not loading, some loading multiple times, etc... is it better just to wipe it all and start over? I hate to lose a bunch of work, but I kind of feel like now that I'm starting (I think) to get a better grasp that it might be better to have a clean slate rather than be confused by all the crap on the SSD and things not loading right.

Is there any kind of utility that would make it easier to get everything ironed out and working right?

I've already decided I'm just going to join my 2 projects together and just have one file and make sure I don't exceed the memory I have. Seems like the only way to keep things from getting jacked up.

[Phinnin]

Okay, to clarify: I am always operating under Case 1 in your example. I only want a single iteration of my machine at all times. So when I make a change, to start I have otr1.ksc as a preload. I go into sampling mode and create a new multi-sample. I go in to that MS and import my .wav files. So far, so good. I then rename the MS (Cars Sync, in this case). I then convert MS to Program (name it Cars Sync and put it in U-G008). Then I go to disk Mode and "save all". It never asks me to force new user sample ID. I just write over existing .KSC,KGE,PCG. The problem at that point is that all of my old combi's will no longer be pointed correctly. The samples are there, but the link the program disappears. Gah!

You also reference _userbank.ksc usage but to be honest, I've never gotten one of those to successfully load samples before. I always have to load the regular .ksc to have the data.

I'll call Korg USA tomorrow but as I'm west coast, they were closed before I got to them. I'll try in the morning.

[LZ]

I've had that problem, too, but usually if I go into the programs and point them to the samples (again) and resave them all, it works after that until I make any changes to the .KSC file.

[danatkorg]

Let me make sure I understand a couple things:

You cannot edit from a _userbank.KSC, you have to load the .KSC then resave to create a new _userbank.KSC - but if you create a new file rather than resave the old file, programs will point to the old file, not the new file?

Almost. Here are some examples.

Start with Sampling Mode data in OldName.KSC.
Program "MyVeryOwnSampleProgram" uses Multisamples from this KSC.
Load the KSC into Sampling Mode and make a few edits.
Then, save it to disk. Where you save it, how you name it, and the "Force new User Sample Bank ID" setting determine what happens next.

* If you save the KSC using the same name and into the same directory, with "Force new User Sample Bank ID" off (un-checked), the original file is overwritten, and the Program "MyVeryOwnSampleProgram" points to the newly saved KSC.

* If you save the KSC into a different directory, with "Force new User Sample Bank ID" off (un-checked), the Program "MyVeryOwnSampleProgram" now points to the newly saved KSC. The name of the new KSC doesn't matter; it could be different, or it could still be "OldName.KSC." There are now two KSC files on the disk, in different directories, with the same User Sample Bank ID. Any Programs which use these samples will use the most recently saved version of the KSC.

As long as you know which is the most recent, you can keep other versions on the internal disks - but if you lose track of which one is the most recent, you may be in for some confusion. The full path names of User Sample Banks - including the directories in which they are stored - are shown in all Multisample and Drum Sample bank selection pop-ups, as well as the "Samples Not Loaded" dialog.

* If you save the KSC into a different directory, with any name, and with "Force new User Sample Bank ID" enabled (checked), the outcome is different. The Program "MyVeryOwnSampleProgram" still points to the original "OldName.KSC." The KSC is now recognized as a different User Sample Bank, and no Programs will point to it yet. If you want to change "MyVeryOwnSampleProgram" to point to the new KSC, use the Remap MS/Sample Bank References menu command.

The real benefits of this system appear when you send a User Sample Bank to a collaborator, or distribute it on the net. If I were to load OldName_userbank.KSC and MyVeryOwnSampleProgram onto my KRONOS, for example, they would just work, regardless of where they were stored on the disk.

That is, unless you go into the program, repoint to the sample, and resave that program.

Actually, you can remap all Programs, Drum Kits, etc. at once, using the Remap MS/Sample Bank References menu command.

Once you get to a point where I am where everything is just messed up with multiple files and things not pointing right, some samples not loading, some loading multiple times, etc... is it better just to wipe it all and start over? I hate to lose a bunch of work, but I kind of feel like now that I'm starting (I think) to get a better grasp that it might be better to have a clean slate rather than be confused by all the crap on the SSD and things not loading right.

I would go back to a non-userbank version of a file, load just the Sampling Mode data (you can do this by opening the KSC file on the disk), and go from there. I'll bet that you can recover everything fairly easily.

I've already decided I'm just going to join my 2 projects together and just have one file and make sure I don't exceed the memory I have. Seems like the only way to keep things from getting jacked up.

That really shouldn't be necessary. It's easy to work with many different User Sample Banks at once; I do it all the time. See "Case 3" above.

Edit: corrected quotes.

[LZ]

One more question: When loading multiple .KSC files.... do they have to be loaded in a certain order for the programs to point to the right multisamples? I'm assuming the problem a few of us have had with multiple instances of the MS loaded and then not pointing to the right place is maybe that MS existed in multiple files that were loaded that appended rather than cleared, but then what you say about it pointing to the most recently saved version would seem to contradict that.

[danatkorg]

One more question: When loading multiple .KSC files.... do they have to be loaded in a certain order for the programs to point to the right multisamples? I'm assuming the problem a few of us have had with multiple instances of the MS loaded and then not pointing to the right place is maybe that MS existed in multiple files that were loaded that appended rather than cleared, but then what you say about it pointing to the most recently saved version would seem to contradict that.

If you're loading multiple non-userbank KSCs into Sampling Mode using Append, then yes, the order in which they are loaded *does* matter. If you load a PCG at the same time as you load the KSC - using the "Load PCG too" or "Load KSC too" check boxes - then the system will remap the Programs etc. in the PCG to reference the correct Multisamples. Otherwise, they will not be remapped.

User Sample Banks eliminate this issue; they can be loaded in any order. The important thing is that, if you want to edit an existing KSC (see case 1 above), you should always use the Clear Sampling Mode Data option when loading the data into Sampling Mode. See the Operation Guide instructions under "Editing User Sample Banks."

There are many options here, I'm sorry; it's the result of having the old system coexist with the new.

[danatkorg]

I'll add: to keep things simple, I use only the new way. Whenever I load a non-userbank KSC into Sampling Mode, I use the "Clear Sampling Mode Data" option. And, unless I'm actively editing the samples, I load the user bank KSC instead, and stay clear of Sampling Mode altogether.

[LZ]

Yeah, I think I got myself in trouble by trying to switch, screwing it up, then switching back.

Initially, I only had one project and it was before the streaming option came out, and all was good. Right about the same time, I added the second project and started trying using the _userbank. Well dumb me, when I added new samples, didn't load the existing ones first (I just had the _userbank in the preload), so when I saved it over the old, it erased all my samples except the latest. Between that and all the other mix ups trying to do the separate files for different projects, I went back to preloading the samples on my first project because it worked and I had steady gigs and didn't want to screw it up, but I haven't revisited the second project yet. After Mar 8, I won't have another project 1 gig in a while, and my first project 2 gig is in April, so I think immediately after the Mar 8 gig, I'm going to try to get all this sorted out so I can practice the project 2 stuff in late march.

whew!

[ed_f]

I believe the reason that you're having issues with User Sample Banks is that you are loading an existing KSC, editing it to become something completely different, and then saving it back to disk as a separate KSC without changing the unique ID. Here are some examples of how to work with User Sample Banks; let me know if they are helpful!

Case 1: Revising or refining an existing User Sample Bank

Let's say that you have a set of samples in a User Sample Bank, and you want to make a few changes to improve or expand it. You load the data into Sampling Mode and perform your edits, such as improving loop points, changing multisample mapping, maybe even adding a few related samples. When you save your Sampling Data, do NOT use the "Force new User Sample Bank ID" option. Leaving this un-checked means that the User Sample Bank retains its identity; any Programs or KSCs which refer to it will continue to function as expected.

Case 2: Changing an existing User Sample Bank into something different

You might sometimes load data into Sampling Mode and edit it substantially, changing a lot of the sample data, and wish to save the result as a completely new User Sample Bank - rather than over-writing the original data. In this case, when you save your Sampling Data, save it with a different name and enable the "Force new User Sample Bank ID" option. This ensures that the original User Sample Bank, and any Programs or KSCs which refer to it, will continue to function as expected.

If you have Programs, Wave Sequences, etc. that you want to switch from using the original User Sample Bank to the new one, use the Remap MS/Sample Bank References menu command to do so.

Note that if you are a normal user (as opposed to a sound developer creating a file for distribution or sale) and you just want to add or remove Multisamples or Drum Samples - for instance, in order to save memory or create a "best of" KSC - you should NOT do this; instead, see Case 3 below.

Case 3: Creating "best of" or "stripped down" KSCs

The great thing about User Sample Banks is that they let you use their data by reference, instead of by copying and editing the data itself. Let's say that you have three User Sample Banks: CoverBand.KSC, SoloProject.KSC, and Experimental.KSC. You can then create additional KSCs to do the following:
A. Combine all three KSCs into a single master KSC, which you can load in a single step
B. Create different stripped-down versions of CoverBand.KSC, each containing the samples for a few of the songs.
C. Create a "best of" KSC with only your favorite samples from the three KSCs.
All of these would take up very little additional space on the disk, don't require any editing in Sampling Mode, and don't require you to edit the original data in any way.
For more information, see "Creating and saving .KSC files" in the Operation Guide.

+1 Really great information in here as always thanks Dan!

[Francois]

Thanks for the explanation.