Korg Forums

I had once heard the original weighted Kronos keybeds were changed over to the RH-3. I have a Kronos 73 with a serial number in the 1500s. Is that the original, or the RH-3? The action is very sluggish to the point where I'm considering selling it and my Nord E4 to buy a Kronos 61 and an E4HP. Any suggestions?

Both Kronos 73 and 88 have the RH3 as orignal keybeds since their launch.

Please explain "sluggish"....(response time or key stiffness etc).

What I mean by sluggish is very heavy and slow to respond. Similar to an old upright. Out of all the weighted action controllers I have played, the Korg is truly the toughest. Yamaha, Nord & Kurzweil are much friendlier and responsive.

lbkeys...
Thanks for the info.
I've only played the Kronos as a hammer action keybed and for me it's just right.
So,I can't offer any further suggestions for you....

Would you believe that I can't really feel the differences between the lower,heavier keys and the higher,lighter ones......
Perhaps it's due to my piano playing some years ago that has "conditioned" my expected feel from such a keyboard.

Please don't take this the wrong way.....
Not meaning to be pedantic or anything...you mention "weighted action" rather than "hammer action"....(there is a huge differnce between the two).
Did you mean hammer action,anyway ..?

The reason I ask is because one would be lighter than the other etc...(Just wondering).

We all have different preferences and it is so important to play one that is suitable etc.
I wish you well in finding one that's better for your needs.

Best Wishes.

Being more of an organ player rather than piano, I couldn't tell the difference between hammer and weighted action. I only know what feels better in my hands. For instance, in acoustic pianos, I prefer the faster action of a Yamaha or Kawai as opposed to the heavier action of a German piano. I guess there is no easy solution. Thank you for your input.

I appreciate your response and it makes better sense for me now,thanks.

Time for you to visit some music dealers to try a few keyboards,then....

Good Luck.

I must say too, (like pedro5) that I don't like to much respond of RH3 (on my Kronos X 73). It's very heavy for me. I tried many keyboards and for me, Fatar TP40L is the best (75 g. key weight). I have a Kurzweil PC3LE8 with this type of keyboard same type is used in PC3K7 and PC3K8, Nord use Fatar keyboards too. RH3 keyboard is graded hammer, but I must say that I don't feel difference in weight between lower and upper keys (all are little bit heavy). Only my two cents. All of us have special taste and the best way is to try keyboard. I fell in love, on first try to Fatar TP40L and for this reason I use Kurzweil PC3LE8 like keyboard controller to Kronos (and this is very good combination). I soon tried one Casio keyboard (I forget type, it's some el. stage piano, price 600-700$) and I was very surprised with keyboard action, very very good. Much more better then RH3 on instrument with price of 3000 euro (or 4000$).

Just to clarify matters....
I really do like the RH3 keybed....as said,it does suit me even though I can't distinguish the weight differences along its length when playing.
My playing technique is a little on the heavy side anyway, which probably helps.

We all do have preferences and the need to find a keyboard that feels right is very important.
This can be difficult to do in practice in finding dealers that cater for several models to try out etc.

I was lucky ,by chance, that I bought the Kronos 73 without playing it before hand in a shop.
Unfortunately,currently having velocity problems and is being repaired....

Best Wishes.

I've got another question:
Are RH3 keybeds in Kronos and Kronos X the same?
I'm asking because I've had contact replaced after my cut off problems in K88. Although it solved problem with cut off's but I have some issues with velocity levels at some keys, uneven key spacing and I'm thinking what to do...
I've heard that Kronos X keybed feels much better, more true(?), velocity is more reliable and keys are even... is this true?

Is there any way to change whole keybed by authorised korg service center and how much would it cost? (My warranty period is over)

Both versions of the Kronos use the RH3 keybed.

Probably the x version would be using the revised rubber key contacts and possibly improved quality control would play a greater part with later models.

"Join the club"....regarding velocity problems.

Would you give further details,please ?

I have also had the contacts changed...twice,so far...with no improvment,pending further repair work.

You can get the keybed replaced,at a cost...but not sure if it really would offer a cure.
Contact your local dealer or Korg service centre for further details........then perpare yourself for a shock !!!....

Key spacing can be a variable with many keyboards and does not affect playabillty much,as long as they remain level overall without steps between them.

Best Wishes.

Sorry for the length of the post but, was kind of a crazy chain of events....

Ok, so I put it in the shop abou t a week ago. Explained to the tech what I thought was going on with it and demonstrated it. Explained how I didn't think OS or velocity-curve or contacts were gonna fix it. I even got a look at the bulletin on the issues (bounce, cutoff, double trigger) and it said something to the effect of problem becoming apparent when playing "softly," just like I said above. I also told him that I was gonna send him an email with my explanation of the problem for him to have for reference in detail in dealing with Korg.

The next day: Well, the owner of the shop was pretty agitated due to his apparently-rough conversations with the Korg tech over the issue. They were not springin' for a new board (which he was trying to get.) They, instead, had a couple of things else that they had been doing to FIX this problem. They wanted him to change the pads in the board to taller pads. AND.....the tech was telling him that it was like a 20 minute job and he saw things a little differently there. Anyway, pads were to be in the mail as of I think like Monday the 21st.

Well, Thursday I stopped in to check on a different piece of gear and there's my Kronos out on the bench in the front of the store n he's messin' with it. He said, confidently, "here, try THIS" - insinuating that it had been fixed and telling me he had been ALL DAY updating the OS to 2.whatever it is now. Again he was irritated ....trying to get the OS downloaded, on a thumb drive, over to the board, blah blah blah. So, I thought "cool" and gave it a try.

I ran my left hand over about 10 notes and - damnit! SAME feel. Same double triggers and cutoff's and that IRRITATING bounce. So he starts messin' with the velocity-curve settings. Didn't matter.....10.......1......5? Same problem. Of course velocity handling was changing as it should've but, no effect on the problem or it's symptoms.

Well, now I find the guy gettin' a little irritated at ME. He says "well what are you talking about? I don't hear the problem?" Hmmmm. Wow. So I slowed it down and.....well.....I couldn't understand HIM not hearing it. I mean you can even SEE the bounce and the akwardness in the movement of the key when a sympton happens if you're lookin' at it and it's NOT hard to hear it. I mean it's UGLY! Heck, I took it to two performing piano players I know and let them check it out. They didn't even have to turn the power on to know there was an obvious problem.

So, he tells me that the taller pads they were gonna send him to install to FIX the problem were - get this - "already IN my board." Wow.

So, he'd been spending his time with this big damned Kronos taking up valuable bench space doing exactly what I had explained WASN'T going to work: Updating the OS and changing velocity-curve settings. And I don't think he even did ANYthing to check what the effect was going to be of putting an OS on there that was not MADE for the keybed. He just asSUMED it needed to be done. Hmmmm. Again...wow!

Well, at this point it's past closin' time at Korg and he voiced his frustration that they had not returned his phone call for the day. He was gonna call them in the morning. I said I was gonna call them before lunch.

Well, the next morning I decided to head him off. I called his store early before they were to be open and his wife answers. He was not in but, I asked her if she would please relay the message to him that I didn't want him doing anything else, including CALL Korg, until I did. She said OK then proceeded to get on to me about calling before they were open. Ok. Then she got onto me about my board and said that they only fix things that are broken. ........Again....WOW!!

So I called Korg, the minute customer service opened. That was AFTER calling "service" earlier. They would not speak me.

The lady, Burnadette, in Customer Service was extremely nice. She was very receptive in listening to (for call recording purposes) my explanation of the of my symptoms and my theory on what the PROBLEM is. She said she was gonna go meet with her manager and would get back to me soon.

Less than 3 hours later she calls She said that she met with her manager and he went and talked to the techs and they DID listen to my explanation and that they were gonna call my tech and have him change my keybed and that it would ship first thing Monday. Yay!

Then, an hour later, my tech calls me. Sounds really happy. He was informing me that about two hours before that they had called and talked to him about my demonstrating the problem and or something and that they had him send them the email that I had sent to the shop. Said that they had just called him back and that they wanted him to install the new keybed in my Kronos and that they were gonna ship it first thing Monday. Also, they were shipping him the counter balances, and new contacts and wanted him to install them in the board out of MY Kronos and ship it back to them

Yay....win win. I got a new keybed and he got more work. I'm happy - he's happy.

A LITTLE MORE ON THAT ORIGINAL KEYBED IN MY KRONOS -

So, the taller pads that were to have fixed the issue were alREADY in my board. As it turns out, the contacts UNDER those pads were not the right length. Those contacts went to a DIFFERENT set of pads. A mix match of parts. Wow! Korg's explanation for this was that, at that time, they were short of stuff and blah blah blah. Hmmm.

Sorry for the length of the post but, was kind of a crazy chain of events....

Ok, so I put it in the shop abou t a week ago. Explained to the tech what I thought was going on with it and demonstrated it. Explained how I didn't think OS or velocity-curve or contacts were gonna fix it. I even got a look at the bulletin on the issues (bounce, cutoff, double trigger) and it said something to the effect of problem becoming apparent when playing "softly," just like I said above. I also told him that I was gonna send him an email with my explanation of the problem for him to have for reference in detail in dealing with Korg.

The next day: Well, the owner of the shop was pretty agitated due to his apparently-rough conversations with the Korg tech over the issue. They were not springin' for a new board (which he was trying to get.) They, instead, had a couple of things else that they had been doing to FIX this problem. They wanted him to change the pads in the board to taller pads. AND.....the tech was telling him that it was like a 20 minute job and he saw things a little differently there. Anyway, pads were to be in the mail as of I think like Monday the 21st.

Well, Thursday I stopped in to check on a different piece of gear and there's my Kronos out on the bench in the front of the store n he's messin' with it. He said, confidently, "here, try THIS" - insinuating that it had been fixed and telling me he had been ALL DAY updating the OS to 2.whatever it is now. Again he was irritated ....trying to get the OS downloaded, on a thumb drive, over to the board, blah blah blah. So, I thought "cool" and gave it a try.

I ran my left hand over about 10 notes and - damnit! SAME feel. Same double triggers and cutoff's and that IRRITATING bounce. So he starts messin' with the velocity-curve settings. Didn't matter.....10.......1......5? Same problem. Of course velocity handling was changing as it should've but, no effect on the problem or it's symptoms.

Well, now I find the guy gettin' a little irritated at ME. He says "well what are you talking about? I don't hear the problem?" Hmmmm. Wow. So I slowed it down and.....well.....I couldn't understand HIM not hearing it. I mean you can even SEE the bounce and the akwardness in the movement of the key when a sympton happens if you're lookin' at it and it's NOT hard to hear it. I mean it's UGLY! Heck, I took it to two performing piano players I know and let them check it out. They didn't even have to turn the power on to know there was an obvious problem.

So, he tells me that the taller pads they were gonna send him to install to FIX the problem were - get this - "already IN my board." Wow.

So, he'd been spending his time with this big damned Kronos taking up valuable bench space doing exactly what I had explained WASN'T going to work: Updating the OS and changing velocity-curve settings. And I don't think he even did ANYthing to check what the effect was going to be of putting an OS on there that was not MADE for the keybed. He just asSUMED it needed to be done. Hmmmm. Again...wow!

Well, at this point it's past closin' time at Korg and he voiced his frustration that they had not returned his phone call for the day. He was gonna call them in the morning. I said I was gonna call them before lunch.

Well, the next morning I decided to head him off. I called his store early before they were to be open and his wife answers. He was not in but, I asked her if she would please relay the message to him that I didn't want him doing anything else, including CALL Korg, until I did. She said OK then proceeded to get on to me about calling before they were open. Ok. Then she got onto me about my board and said that they only fix things that are broken. ........Again....WOW!!

So I called Korg, the minute customer service opened. That was AFTER calling "service" earlier. They would not speak me.

The lady, Burnadette, in Customer Service was extremely nice. She was very receptive in listening to (for call recording purposes) my explanation of the of my symptoms and my theory on what the PROBLEM is. She said she was gonna go meet with her manager and would get back to me soon.

Less than 3 hours later she calls She said that she met with her manager and he went and talked to the techs and they DID listen to my explanation and that they were gonna call my tech and have him change my keybed and that it would ship first thing Monday. Yay!

Then, an hour later, my tech calls me. Sounds really happy. He was informing me that about two hours before that they had called and talked to him about my demonstrating the problem and or something and that they had him send them the email that I had sent to the shop. Said that they had just called him back and that they wanted him to install the new keybed in my Kronos and that they were gonna ship it first thing Monday. Also, they were shipping him the counter balances, and new contacts and wanted him to install them in the board out of MY Kronos and ship it back to them

Yay....win win. I got a new keybed and he got more work. I'm happy - he's happy.

A LITTLE MORE ON THAT ORIGINAL KEYBED IN MY KRONOS -

So, the taller pads that were to have fixed the issue were alREADY in my board. As it turns out, the contacts UNDER those pads were not the right length. Those contacts went to a DIFFERENT set of pads. A mix match of parts. Wow! Korg's explanation for this was that, at that time, they were short of stuff and blah blah blah. Hmmm.

wow....didn't know this thread had continued over to a page two. lol Just reading the stuff.

For those talking about difference in weight from low to high? I'm pretty sure this is not a "Graded Weighted" bed. It is a "balanced hammer action" bed. (I believe that's the term.) It is to have the same weight in action throughout the range of the bed.

Ernie Davis wrote:So, the taller pads that were to have fixed the issue were alREADY in my board. As it turns out, the contacts UNDER those pads were not the right length. Those contacts went to a DIFFERENT set of pads. A mix match of parts.

When you say "pads", are you talking about the key contact strips? The blue/pink rubber strips with raised "buttons" that are pushed down by the keys? (The blue contact strips that fix the problem are in fact taller than the original pink ones.) Or are you talking about the felt/rubber pads that run the length of the keybed and absorb the force of the finger hitting the key? And by "contacts", do you mean the small black contacts glued to the bottom of the contact strip that actually makes contact with the circuit board, or are you referring to the blue/pink rubber contact strips again?

I haven't seen any reference to "pads" or "contacts under pads" in any previous discussions here, or in dealing with PartsIsParts and Korg, only "contact strips" or "key contact strips", and I'm just trying to keep the terminology straight...

df

Interesting.....so the tech at the shop has HIS terminology screwed up. I'm not surprised. Everybody's a damned expert but you ask 5 so-called experts and they'll use 5 different terminologies. Too common in all industries.

Drives me nuts. As a former Air Traffic Controller, I'm a sucker for terminology too. I mean....how else you gonna communicate efficiently, effectively, and accurately?

The tech at the store CALLED them pads but what he SHOWED me AS he was referring to them were the "contact strips" you refer to. Geez.

Contacts? Yes....the black tips glued to the bottom.

So he was showing me contact strips I guess and CALLING them pads.

And this shop has a great reputation here in town. That's why I went there.