Karma Triggering Audio Loops - Demo

[Peas&Carrots]

Aw man, you said it didn't require the kronos karma software..... And as soon as I opened the pdf, there it was....lol.

So you do need the software to create the ge....

LOL - sorry! - I didn't say that the software wasn't required if you read my post again - if someone on here could post the user GE in a suitable format (e.g. KDF) for downloading then it would be available for everyone to use without the software - I just can't figure out how to do this bit....

[apex]

Well karma has to be set to one note arps (vs the other note range option) maybe each scene is set to a different one note range. So when he said he's scenes a different note is triggered automatically. Then each sample (loop) is attached to a different note. So when triggered by karma it is essentially the same as pressing a key and triggering that sample.

I still don't get why the karma software is needed to do this.

Congratulations apex you pretty much figured it out! - not exactly rocket science but still effective - or at least I think so.

Karma just makes sure the scene changes are EXACTLY in time with Drum track or other Keyboard timing functions that you are using. I've tried just manually triggering loops but it all gets out of time very quickly and starts to sound messy. Unless of course there is another way of doing this?

As we know RPPR uses up keys on the keyboard so using the Karma buttons keeps things tidy.

The Karma software is NOT needed as Kronos runs the GE once it is created however I'm a newbie to Karma and at the moment can't figure out how to get this out of Kronos / Karma software and into a file that people can download. It should be simple but I'm struggling...aaaaargh! I also think that users will want to experiment - for example, the GE I used is 4/4 timing with only one trigger per scene change. Other users may want to change the time signature and other parameters to suit their performance and loops - the software would be needed for this.

If anyone has a "numptie guide" to saving a single GE into a file then please would you let me know how to do this?

Cheers!

There it is right there in bold..... All good though. No worries.

[apex]

So basically the karma software is there to create the ONE note GE that we will trigger. ?

[StephenKay]

To save the GE to a file that others can load, from the KARMA Kronos software, all you have to do is:

Store it in a User GE Bank Location, let's say User Bank A (which is included in the default KDF File), location 96 (which is by default an Init GE).

Choose "Export KGE..." from the file menu.

Have Bank A checked.

Name the file XXXXX.KGE, whatever, and it should be able to be loaded by any Kronos.

[apex]

Thanks. I'm going to do a version for the m3 people since I have that software. Maybe peas and carrots will the the Kronos version. If not, I'll see how easy it will be to convert the m3 version to the Kronos version.

Thanks again.

[apex]

I've been working at this all day. And it's just not working... tried everything in the manual that you gave.. even filling in the blanks or guessing what you may have meant....

It is sending the one note... but it is not being retriggered at each scene change...

has anyone else got this to work yet

[apex]

when I say what you may have meant... I mean for example:

(please consider I am not a novice at any level when it comes to synths... I just don't understand (completely) some of these instructions.

- 1 bar of short notes.... (where in the 1 bar should the notes come... all before beat 2, on each qtr note, .... specifically where... please note, I tried it several different ways)

- delete most settings.... (which do we delete and what don't we delete) I made my screens look exactly like the ones you posted in the directions. Is there a button used to clear the settings, or do we have to go in and click and drag till everything disappears.

- set the drum note to something suitable.... (what is the drum note... I did what I thought you may have been describing... but I may have been wrong)

this is a start to the questions and may at least get me going in the right direction.

[Peas&Carrots]

It is sending the one note... but it is not being retriggered at each scene change...

I had this - make sure that you turn Karma off then on again before testing the scene changes. after the first trigger DO NOT use the Keyboard or Pad - only use the scene change buttons.

EDIT - you have set the KARMA scene change quantize window to 1 Bar haven't you? Did you remember to tick the yellow link button on in the Drum window?

- 1 bar of short notes.... (where in the 1 bar should the notes come... all before beat 2, on each qtr note, .... specifically where... please note, I tried it several different ways)

I don't think it matters (perhaps this is a red herring) - you will change the notes in the drum window anyway. I used 1 note starting every quarter bar.

- delete most settings.... (which do we delete and what don't we delete) I made my screens look exactly like the ones you posted in the directions. Is there a button used to clear the settings, or do we have to go in and click and drag till everything disappears.

There are various ways of deleting the Karma settings (e.g. clicking on the parameters or the various matrices etc.) - copying my setting should work:?

- set the drum note to something suitable.... (what is the drum note... I did what I thought you may have been describing... but I may have been wrong)

I just checked mine again and used C4 - I remember now - this is the mid point so will allow each Pattern Transpose step to play a note. I also tested this using a piano rather than a set of loops - that way you have the whole note range to hear what is going on...

I hope this helps?

Hopefully later today I will send a link to the KGE file (Thanks Stephen!)

[Peas&Carrots]

link to KGE file here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/20ofroa8peft1 ... M.KGE?dl=0

Please note that this will NOT work until you have followed my draft notes previously posted

AFTER you have followed my notes you can of course test the GE using a simple piano program (no loops needed) however you will not have a "keys off" button

I was thinking about linking the Program and KSC files but I suspect there would be a breach of copyright if I did that...

[apex]

It is sending the one note... but it is not being retriggered at each scene change...

I had this - make sure that you turn Karma off then on again before testing the scene changes. after the first trigger DO NOT use the Keyboard or Pad - only use the scene change buttons.

EDIT - you have set the KARMA scene change quantize window to 1 Bar haven't you?

- 1 bar of short notes.... (where in the 1 bar should the notes come... all before beat 2, on each qtr note, .... specifically where... please note, I tried it several different ways)

I don't think it matters (perhaps this is a red herring) - you will change the notes in the drum window anyway. I used 1 note starting every quarter bar. Did you remember to tick the yellow link button on in the Drum window?

- delete most settings.... (which do we delete and what don't we delete) I made my screens look exactly like the ones you posted in the directions. Is there a button used to clear the settings, or do we have to go in and click and drag till everything disappears.

There are various ways of deleting the Karma settings (e.g. clicking on the parameters or the various matrices etc.) - copying my setting should work:?

- set the drum note to something suitable.... (what is the drum note... I did what I thought you may have been describing... but I may have been wrong)

I just checked mine again and used C4 - I remember now - this is the mid point so will allow each Pattern Transpose step to play a note. I also tested this using a piano rather than a set of loops - that way you have the whole note range to hear what is going on...

I hope this helps?

Hopefully later today I will send a link to the KGE file (Thanks Stephen!)

Thanks for the added comments. I will try the option to turn karma off then back on again. I wonder why this step is needed though??? So you are saying to: turn karma on, then trigger the first note with a key or pad, then turn karma off then back on again, then use the scene buttons to change from scene to scene?

Yes I remembered to tick the yellow link button. There are three different ones though... But yes I turned on the first one.

When you say copy your settings you do mean the settings shown in your screen shots right? I did copy those. But I am curious, after you finish the first set of screen shots you come back with another set and don't really say what they are for..... Well you mention that these are other settings to try, but you didn't really say what effect they would have on the overall product.

When you say you set yours to C4, you mean the screenshot that says "hi tom" or something of that nature? What do you mean by mid way point...."middle c"??? And what difference does that have on the end result? I used A0 because it is the lowest key on my Kronos/m3 set up.

I've been testing this with just a single piano note in an initialized program. I haven't done the loops yet because I wanted to make sure it would work before I went through the trouble of creating the loops.

Thanks again for your help. Trying to bug this out..... Then amend it to meet the needs of those that need it.

[Peas&Carrots]

Hi Apex

Karma and Latch both need to be turned on. What I meant was that if you set Karma going with a single note then don't touch the keyboard or pads or even Karma Software pads again for now whilst you are testing things - if you do it will probably send everything out of sync (i.e. the note doesn't play on scene change) and then you would need to turn Karma Off then On and then press a key to re-trigger Karma

Yes I meant follow the screen shots. I would just ignore the second set of screen shots for now (they don't really need to be in there - just some other ideas)

If you click in the drum notes in the software then the keyboard notes (including C4) will be shown together with the drum description. Pattern Transpose, the way it is set up currently, works in + and - directions so you need a mid point that allows the transpose steps to play as notes.

I must admit that for something that seems soooo simple, I had an absolute nightmare getting it to work. Just one little thing out and the whole lot falls down BUT once you have it and save it to Kronos / M3 then you don't need to worry about it ever again (until you want to do something different of course!)

[Peas&Carrots]

Apex - I think I possibly figured out what the problem might be

If you are testing from the software then the in the Performance window / RT Parms tab the 1st Parameter (which should read Drum: Pattern Transpose [1]) needs to have the Assign set to Slider 1.

Also in the Real-Time Controls (RTC) window the Scene Change Quantise must be set to 1 BAR (you can choose a suitable name for slider 1 here too)

I assumed that the RT parameters would be edited on Kronos so you will need to replicate them in the software...I've updated the notes to include information about this (Now V.2)

[apex]

I've been watching the super bowl stuff and had church today. I'll have a lot of time tomorrow to do some more testing.

[apex]

ok, I loaded your GE into my Kronos and set everything up per your instructions given in the PDF. I am using a simple piano tone to test and see if the pitches increase with each scene change. they are working but not chromatically. They are going 1 pitch per 2 scene changes. (for example: Scene 1 and 2 are note C, Scene 3 and 4 are note C#, Scene 5 and 6 are note D etc...)

Any suggestions as to how to fix this?

[Peas&Carrots]

OK - it's a start - I've had this behaviour before too but mostly using Interpretation = melodic data when undertaking the GE import...

Pattern Transpose has been assigned to slider 1 in the GE RPT parameters yes? Are you using slider 1 to save a different value in each Karma scene? The slider is really sensitive in the current setting (it can eventually be set to have a reduced note range but no need to worry about that for now) I used the value inc. and dec. buttons instead. You can re-trigger the notes using the keyboard for now each time you press the increase and decrease buttons. If the notes don't progress in semitones approximately every 2 values (between 0-127) then something isn't right.

Another thing to perhaps try is after transferring the GE from the Karma Software, switch Kronos off then on again - shouldn't be needed but I remember having problems and a reset worked......

I have things on this evening + work tomorrow so it will be 24 hours at least before I get back to you. I might link a PCG to my dropbox that uses just a piano tone - The PCG will contain the Karma Performance settings? - so the only thing you would need to do is to point Karma at your new GE?

Hang in there!!!