Yamaha Reface

[Oldretro]

As a long time Yamaha fan, who jumped ship to the Kronos last year (and loving it)....

Crap, crap, crap, and at a ridiculous price in a crippled interface - I detest mini-keys.

£350 per synth in a crippled interface (unless you are a hobbit)? My 9 engines in my Kronos cost me £266 each and came in a lovely integrated package.

I mean come on, offering a DX9 with mini keys in 2015, when I have a TG77, SY99, FS1r, patchable FM in my Nord G2 Engine and MOD-7... Are they insulting me?

Do I really want an obscure Yamaha organ, when I am a Hammond (Clonewheel) man with either NI-B4II or Kronos CX-3 for choices?

Do I want a crippled CP piano, when I have Pianoteq and its CP model (really authentic)?

Do I want to pay £350 for a CS synth in a crippled interface when I have a CS80V in my Arturia collection?

Yamaha have really lost the plot when it comes to SERIOUS synthesis.

Do any of these toys compete with my EX5, TG77, SY99, FS1r, AN1x, PLG150-AN and PLG150-VL (inside a Motif Rack ES)? Not a chance!

I just cannot summon the G.A.S. for these.

There is already talk about what the next trademarked name, Montage, will mean, but I aint hold my breath...

After this I think I don't even care any more. Where are the days when Yamaha released legendary instruments like the (polyphonic) CS and DX series?. Or maybe I'm just getting old and out of touch?

[Sharp]

I've seen better, integrated Music Stand, and keyboard stand.

[NuSkoolTone]

I have to agree with the criticisms above. It LITERALLY breaks my heart to see Yamaha release such GARBAGE. Did all their talent in engineering quit? Honestly, what the hell is this stuff?

Most of us here (at least on the forum) are in some capacity "Professionals". Our market is gear that actually makes SENSE in that setting. For those of us that (well, used to) like Yamaha, we've been waiting effectively 8+ years for something "new". Slapping black paint and flash ram on the previous product doesn't count! Most of us viewed that (The XF) as a "Band-Aid" to Yamaha's next generation workstation which year after year has YET to materialize.

Really, what is Yamaha waiting for to start making SERIOUS gear again? For iPads to finally get good enough to be a workstation replacement with a controller? Because it already IS a replacement for most stuff the "Bedroom Producers" need. Which INCLUDES these sad, sad little excuses for instruments with tiny allotments of Yamaha technology.

We've been waiting for what is effectively an EX10 for over a decade which would answer the Kronos. Basically, an FS1R, An Expanded Motif Sample set, The return of FDSP, Nice modeling Engine of an AN1x Flavor, with sampling, Arp, and a Sequencer!

Seriously, just take my money so I can retire my XS7!

[Davd C. Polich]

I have to agree with the criticisms above. It LITERALLY breaks my heart to see Yamaha release such GARBAGE. Did all their talent in engineering quit? Honestly, what the hell is this stuff?

Most of us here (at least on the forum) are in some capacity "Professionals". Our market is gear that actually makes SENSE in that setting. For those of us that (well, used to) like Yamaha, we've been waiting effectively 8+ years for something "new". Slapping black paint and flash ram on the previous product doesn't count! Most of us viewed that (The XF) as a "Band-Aid" to Yamaha's next generation workstation which year after year has YET to materialize.

Really, what is Yamaha waiting for to start making SERIOUS gear again? For iPads to finally get good enough to be a workstation replacement with a controller? Because it already IS a replacement for most stuff the "Bedroom Producers" need. Which INCLUDES these sad, sad little excuses for instruments with tiny allotments of Yamaha technology.

We've been waiting for what is effectively an EX10 for over a decade which would answer the Kronos. Basically, an FS1R, An Expanded Motif Sample set, The return of FDSP, Nice modeling Engine of an AN1x Flavor, with sampling, Arp, and a Sequencer!

Seriously, just take my money so I can retire my XS7!

You think Yamaha is going to cancel the release of these products because YOU complained? You were never going to buy them anyway.

Sorry, I think almost all of the posts on this thread, and this thread itself, is a bunch of whining just to be whining. None of you are manufacturers. You think Yamaha puts out anything without doing market research? They do not. No company stays in business without doing market research and bringing out new products that address that research.

I think some of you were the same people that bitched and moaned about Korg's re-release of the ARP Odyssey. Something about "mini-keys", I recall. But here's the thing - YOU are not the target market for this product. No matter how much you hate, you can't change that fact.

How about just not saying anything negative about a company and their products? If you want to make a statement, just don't buy any Reface synths.

[Derek Cook]

I have to agree with the criticisms above. It LITERALLY breaks my heart to see Yamaha release such GARBAGE. Did all their talent in engineering quit? Honestly, what the hell is this stuff?

Most of us here (at least on the forum) are in some capacity "Professionals". Our market is gear that actually makes SENSE in that setting. For those of us that (well, used to) like Yamaha, we've been waiting effectively 8+ years for something "new". Slapping black paint and flash ram on the previous product doesn't count! Most of us viewed that (The XF) as a "Band-Aid" to Yamaha's next generation workstation which year after year has YET to materialize.

Really, what is Yamaha waiting for to start making SERIOUS gear again? For iPads to finally get good enough to be a workstation replacement with a controller? Because it already IS a replacement for most stuff the "Bedroom Producers" need. Which INCLUDES these sad, sad little excuses for instruments with tiny allotments of Yamaha technology.

We've been waiting for what is effectively an EX10 for over a decade which would answer the Kronos. Basically, an FS1R, An Expanded Motif Sample set, The return of FDSP, Nice modeling Engine of an AN1x Flavor, with sampling, Arp, and a Sequencer!

Seriously, just take my money so I can retire my XS7!

You think Yamaha is going to cancel the release of these products because YOU complained? You were never going to buy them anyway.

Sorry, I think almost all of the posts on this thread, and this thread itself, is a bunch of whining just to be whining. None of you are manufacturers. You think Yamaha puts out anything without doing market research? They do not. No company stays in business without doing market research and bringing out new products that address that research.

I think some of you were the same people that bitched and moaned about Korg's re-release of the ARP Odyssey. Something about "mini-keys", I recall. But here's the thing - YOU are not the target market for this product. No matter how much you hate, you can't change that fact.

How about just not saying anything negative about a company and their products? If you want to make a statement, just don't buy any Reface synths.

I'm quite happy to give Yamaha positive kudos for a whole swathe of fantastic products, it's just they are all more than ten years old now.

I also don't disagree with what you say in that they must be sure that there is a market out there for Reface, and it's not aimed at me, and I will be excising my option not to buy them!

That doesn't stop me being frustrated that a once very innovative company when it came to making cutting edge synths is light years behind what Korg are doing with Kronos (itself not perfect, but very darn good!).

If Yamaha did make a decent synth again, I WOULD buy it like a shot. When I first heard the rumours of a new synth from Yamaha, I got all excited; the G.A.S. started bubbling, and I started dreaming of a replacement for my EX5 which I use on my bottom tier (not before getting an EX5R to keep the sounds). Well, it's not going to be Reface

I simply cannot see the point of mini-keys either. Sure they might suit some people, but I like a keyboard designed for the width of a human hand and fingers. It's this thing called ergonomics.

Each to his own of course. If there are positive comments on Reface, let's have them!

[DodgingRain]

I can deal with the minikeys. What I can't deal with is keyboards that are that limited at that price point. The mininova and microkorgs stomp on these feature-wise for the price points.

At a street price of $250 US they would be a worth a look, any more than that and they are no-go's.

Also they seem to be pushing that midi web junk. Absolutely ridiculous. I don't want to use a web browser for anything music related besides listening to tracks.

I'm not sure how they screwed this up so bad. They could have put an AN-150 card in the CS and called it the AN, the DX could have had the DX-150 card with that nice interface and they might have been worth looking at for those prices. Even just reusing those cards they would have had more power and features.

Beyond that this is just crippled rehash of decade old tech in a small container with some updated presets (maybe).

And trying to invoke the name of the CS synths with this is frankly insulting, even to the CS1x much less the CS80.

Their target market must be people that don't know anything about synths and are too dumb to do some price comparisons with other similar products.

[Davd C. Polich]

One day the president of Yamaha had a meeting with marketing.

Marketing people: "We'd like to bring some junk products to market that nobody will want."

Yamaha's president: "Sounds good to me. Let's do it!"

Did this really happen? No, of course not. Because companies don't stay in business long by making vanity products that don't sell.

Here's the thing - products under $1000 sell a LOT more than products over $2500. And if you have ever worked music retail, you'd know that you make more money on products under a grand than you do on big-ticket items.

Look, I was a bit skeptical when I first learned about Reface. But then I had the opportunity to sit down with these and play and hear them.
Made a believer out of me...because, they just sound awesome. The
CP, for example, has some of the sounds from Yamaha's flagship stage piano, the CP1. For about one-eighth of the price.

[EvilDragon]

Still, having no onboard patch management SUCKS DONKEY BALLS.

MicroKorg has it. Ultranova has it. Yamaha... *tumbleweed*

[Bertotti]

If they sound that good, and I do not doubt you, they probably do, then I hope they will make a rack version. That I would be interested in, maybe.

[SeedyLee]

Did this really happen? No, of course not. Because companies don't stay in business long by making vanity products that don't sell.

Here's the thing - products under $1000 sell a LOT more than products over $2500. And if you have ever worked music retail, you'd know that you make more money on products under a grand than you do on big-ticket items.

And apps priced at $9.95 sell a lot more than products priced at $400-$500. There's nothing about these devices that couldn't have been made into an iPad app with the same sound quality, with which the user can control with a MIDI controller of their choice.

With the Reface series, if you want all the different sound engines, it's going to cost between $1500 and $2000 and take up more room than a Kronos 61!

[Sharp]

There's nothing about these devices that couldn't have been made into an iPad app with the same sound quality, with which the user can control with a MIDI controller of their choice.

While I didn't say it in my post above, that was my first thought when I saw these. Then I thought to myself, no, they would actually suck as Apps because compared to the choices available on App Store, they simply don't offer anywhere near enough to compete.
So, I posted an image of a toy instead because that's all I see here. Toys.

If I were asked to give an opinion on the direction Yamaha were taking in the music industry I'd simply throw my hands in the air and say "I really don't know".

Regards
Sharp.

[Joe Gerardi]

How about Korg's own "mini-key" products, and Novation's, and Roland's? Those products sell well. That's the target market, gents.

They suck, too.

I've had the fortune of seeing these and playing and hearing them. They sound frickin' awesome. Not "tiny". Hook up a full-size 88 key controller if you want to feel like you're playing a "man's" synthesizer.

And then YOU take the CP and play Chopin on it. Play Bach. Play anything besides one finger crap.

I can guarantee you, if you get the chance to actually play and hear one of these, you'll at least have to admit, they sound great.

Who cares what they sound like? If they're unplayable, no matter how good they sound they're useless.

A keyboard that can run on batteries or AC, fits in a laptop bag, has Midi and USB, built-in speakers, and high-quality sound, for around $500.

Is nothing more than a toy geared towards 20 year-olds who cannot play squat. These types of keyboards have been around for years:

Frankly, I hope every manufacturer's products sell well. It's good for the synth industry.

So would be all of these in a CS6x case with full-size keys.

..Joe

[chilly7]

Well, they finally announced it/them, but for some reason I feel a bit underwhelmed

I *would* be tempted if Yamaha release a full size 5 octave keyboard with all 4 synths embedded.

UK price around £340 each, available September.

Do not adjust your set... Video kicks in @ 00:28, but I would just skip to 03:42
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Yes, i am dropping my AUs and my Mac Pro and moving for this junk. ha-ha-ha lol.

[chilly7]

I've seen better, integrated Music Stand, and keyboard stand.

[shefu]

I honestly feel like Yamaha simply doesn't care anymore beyond Arrangers...