Kronos feedback.

[Jon Lord]

I had the M3 and did not find that those external soft synth templates saved with the combi/program. It's been a few years so maybe I'm mistaken.

Busch.

They don't. You cannot have a Program or combi call up a specific external control template.

Oh ye my mistake...but you can set every midichannel per slider/knob/pot (atleast in the M3) so you can create an general template for all you keyboards (8sliders, 16knobs, 8pots = awesome) so specific sliders etc controlls specific external keyboards.
And switching the template is just few clicks away anyways

But the rest of the stuff, like pads are saved per program/combi, and stuff like programchanges and such aswell so you dont need to use the controll surface to switch sound

[Reggmail]

Very well said, jimknopf, [Quote] 2. same counts for some kinds of issues, of which some often go unnoticed, even when you test a new device for several days. If it is something of general importance with a smart alternative not requiring too much programming to fix, and causing constant trouble in everyday musical life, it's exactly the advantage of a modern, software-OS based system to fix it, and I would have no understanding as customer for a company which does nothing about it and refutes any customer dialog about such issues.

The "buy a thing as it is and shut up" perspective can no longer count on being accepted, and it can't for very good and solid reasons which have nothing to do with unreal expectations or company bashing.
It's a partnership issue, and good customers will award good partnership with money. I certainly do and am VERY aware how companies behave concerning this.

Reggmail [Reply] I got very tired of companies putting out product that many of us get googoo eyes over, run out and spend lots of money $$$ and buy it, just to find that in a year, you now own an expensive paperweight like Korg did with the Zero 8 / 4 mixers, and many other innovative products that Korg manufactured. (thay have a public track record of doing this) Why, becouse we allow them, for me, the chickens are coming home to roost.


JimH [Quote] I suppose loyalty does translate into dollars in the end, but it's probably tough to identify which of the total dollars are loyalty dollars. So maybe the best we can do is be smarter buyers and watch out for that.
I would like to get a commitment from a company that they would update software to keep compatibility with computers for X number of years. But I just don't think you can really believe it. Company policies and employees can change. At the risk of sliding into a political rant, at the real root of it is probably just capitalism. Companies answer to shareholders and thus do what is most profitable, and capitalism says that is what's right. The only thing I know to do is to be smart and not forget a company's past behavior and then vote with your dollar.

Reggmail [ Reply] I Agree, you make some good points, but I believe if more people stand ground base on company support, hold them accountable for their products it will make a difference, your vote with $$$$$ will make a difference.....Sing me up. Just so you know, Yamaha supported mLan from with updates from 2003 to 2007, 3 years or more I believe would be acceptable for most.

MartinHines [Quote] I disagree. I don't see Yamaha releasing any more functionality updates with their products than Korg does. The Motif, Motif ES, and Motif XS all had a few updates. The big accomplishment of Yamaha is their 3rd party support for new sounds.
Also, traditionally Korg has not invested that much effort in lining up 3rd pary sound support, so I would not expect that to change.
As Sharp suggested, you should only buy the Kronos (or really any product) for what it does today. If not, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Reggmail [Reply] Here are the facts, M-lan was out over five years ago when I hade the Motif ES in 2003. http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/motif.php I believe that Yamaha just recently dropped it after the XS, also they have been supporting the Motif XS, since it came out in 2007 with updates and fixes as well as third party support....( Got To Give The People What They Want ), and as I said, (Giving Credit Where Credit is Due). Why don't Korg support third party developers?
Also, Just so you know, Motif XS (and I'm defiantly not a Yamaha groupie by no means) but as an example, Yamaha released a new update, added tap tempo and others improvements for the Motif XS, that was just release last week 2011 on a 4 year old Workstation.

Hint, Hint...Korg never addressed any questions concerning this concern and it's been on this forum and other forums for weeks.
For Korg not to answer and submit to future support was the answer that I was expecting from Korg. ( Korg's no answer, was an answer to me )
However, ( for me,) it was the writing on the wall, a $3000 and up keyboard for just a year support and a ( ''It Dose What We Say It Does Now'' Warrantee ) is not enough for me, considering Korg's track record. http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165742 along with many others Korg products.
This made me put the breaks on the Kronos Workstation product, and that's just my vote, and you are entitled to yours.
With a computer or two, controller, workstation, modules, along with the lower price of SSD's, good VST's, a DAW' incorperating good plugs will give me the flexibility (and third party ) that I need for future upgrades and not be stuck in this Workstation hype box. and yes, powerful better priced Laptops with voltage regulators are becoming more popular for live stage performance uses as well.
All that I'm trying to say is be cautious, I hope that people don't go out and spend their money then have Korg pull support after a short time.
We need to start setting the bar for these company's to earn our support and give more support on their products before they get our money. That's just my opinion.
Peace & blessings.

[Randelph]

From what i've seen, Korg has been mostly good around updates on the M3, Oayses, giving system and sound updates.

Where they fell short is making a promise to Oayses users that was never kept (and we'll probably never hear the end of that); not having almost any presence on this forum, and not throwing in support for 3d party sound libraries, editors/librarians, etc. [OK, not being fair here- the numerous In the Studio videos by Rich have been very helpful]

I'm confident they'll support the Kronos at least as well as they did the Oayses and M3 (which was pretty considerable over time), and probably even more so, as this board has the potential to be their best selling board ever.

I'm encouraged that they've put the entire user manual onboard the keyboard, which is freakin' smart, and that they had the longer term strategic smarts to pioneer a cutting edge board, the Oayses, and eventually able to turn into a mass market board, the Kronos.

But it's hard to make sense of whats up when a company is silent, and it does make for a sense of abandoned children syndrome! I hate it!

But I appreciate that they've got the best musician friendly board with the best sounds, that counts for a lot. Perhaps as consumers we need to organize further (like labor unions!) and attempt to set up a dialog with Korg.

I have NO idea how Korg is run, and what role Rich, Jerry, Dan, etc. play in determining how interactive Korg is. They are certainly the voice for Korg during roll outs, and to a limited extent afterwards.

1. What I would like is an ongoing presence by them (or someone super knowlgeable from Korg) as a factory expert on the forums (like Bad Mister, Jim Aiken and Athan on Motifator.com). Is that beyond the budget they have allocated for their top of the line workstation, or is it a case of corporate philosophy along the lines that making themselves available on a forum opens them up to more demands than they want to deal with (or whatever the grounds for shutting out the end users and not responding to them)?

If they were clever about it, they could get away with using technically adept forum users with good writing skills for this, having a contest for example where they win something from Korg if they're amoung the 3 expert users who demonstrate their knowledge and willingness to help. With so many guys on this forum, there'd be a massive competition of guys who'd love whatever Korg threw their way and bragging rights to being a Korg Expert Adviser!

And that would also effectively shield them a bit (if indeed that's the corporate concern), because it would be made clear that these are expert end users, not representatives of the factory. And it would create a climate where the really top notch geeks are participating- that's something that I miss from the motifator forum.

And, as an extension of the above idea, there could be various contests sponsored by Korg on making instructional videos for getting the most out of the various synth engines, or learning sequencing, etc.

2. A marketplace (like Motifator.com?). Look at Apple, how much of their success comes from that strategy. I certainly had MUCH MUCH more confidence and a feeling of being plugged into something when I was a Motif XS user. Too bad I didn't like the interface or sounds that much!

3. I'd also like their support for a 3d party librarian / editor. Perhaps with the larger screen on the Kronos this won't be so much of an issue, but there are many many problems with the M3 Editor. And to compound the problem, they (whoever 'they' at Korg is) weren't even cooperative enough to supply a bit of code to Daz for a librarian that was already written. That's despicable and really dumb for a company that otherwise is quite brilliant.

Specifically, the M3 Editor is butt ugly, doesn't re-size (on my laptop i have to get out a magnifying glass to read it), and has almost no librarian functions, which almost tragic on the M3- a real PITA to organize things using the board by itself.

[Reggmail]

Randelph, thank you for you response.

Everything that you said was very on point, and I appreciate your input of very smart ideas.
The problem is with Korg, as you so eloquently stated.

Reggmail [ Reply] In this economy you would think that Korg would look at how successful a sight such as Motifator is when it comes to interaction from people like Phil Bad Mister, Athan Billias, and others, including the sound designers Dave Polich, Peter Krischker who responds, interacts along with helping the end user with some technical issues as well.

Those are some of the key people along with Japan who not only help in the design of the Motifs, but make themselves available and respond to user concerns.

That makes me spend the money on the Yamaha products because of the vast support (insurance) that someone's there who has an ear that knows the equipment and was vital in it's design.

They listen to the end users, take the ideas to Japan, evaluate, then let you know what can and cannot be done in the next update, that's good interaction, PR and customer service.

Kudos to StephenKay who make his self available and seems to be ( to my knowledge) the closes technical contact who interacts with users when it comes to someone who work with Korg.

Randelph - I'm confident they'll support the Kronos at least as well as they did the Oayses and M3 (which was pretty considerable over time), and probably even more so, as this board has the potential to be their best selling board ever.
I'm encouraged that they've put the entire user manual onboard the keyboard, which is freakin' smart, and that they had the longer term strategic smarts to pioneer a cutting edge board, the Oayses, and eventually able to turn into a mass market board, the Kronos.
But it's hard to make sense of whats up when a company is silent, and it does make for a sense of abandoned children syndrome! I hate it!
But I appreciate that they've got the best musician friendly board with the best sounds, that counts for a lot. Perhaps as consumers we need to organize further (like labor unions!) and attempt to set up a dialog with Korg.
I have NO idea how Korg is run, and what role Rich, Jerry, Dan, etc. play in determining how interactive Korg is. They are certainly the voice for Korg during roll outs, and to a limited extent afterwards.

Randelph-
1. What I would like is an ongoing presence by them (or someone super knowlgeable from Korg) as a factory expert on the forums (like Bad Mister, Jim Aiken and Athan on Motifator.com). Is that beyond the budget they have allocated for their top of the line workstation, or is it a case of corporate philosophy along the lines that making themselves available on a forum opens them up to more demands than they want to deal with (or whatever the grounds for shutting out the end users and not responding to them)?
If they were clever about it, they could get away with using technically adept forum users with good writing skills for this, having a contest for example where they win something from Korg if they're amoung the 3 expert users who demonstrate their knowledge and willingness to help. With so many guys on this forum, there'd be a massive competition of guys who'd love whatever Korg threw their way and bragging rights to being a Korg Expert Adviser!
And that would also effectively shield them a bit (if indeed that's the corporate concern), because it would be made clear that these are expert end users, not representatives of the factory. And it would create a climate where the really top notch geeks are participating- that's something that I miss from the motifator forum.
And, as an extension of the above idea, there could be various contests sponsored by Korg on making instructional videos for getting the most out of the various synth engines, or learning sequencing, etc.

2. A marketplace (like Motifator.com?). Look at Apple, how much of their success comes from that strategy. I certainly had MUCH MUCH more confidence and a feeling of being plugged into something when I was a Motif XS user. Too bad I didn't like the interface or sounds that much!

3. I'd also like their support for a 3d party librarian / editor. Perhaps with the larger screen on the Kronos this won't be so much of an issue, but there are many many problems with the M3 Editor. And to compound the problem, they (whoever 'they' at Korg is) weren't even cooperative enough to supply a bit of code to Daz for a librarian that was already written. That's despicable and really dumb for a company that otherwise is quite brilliant.
Specifically, the M3 Editor is butt ugly, doesn't re-size (on my laptop i have to get out a magnifying glass to read it), and has almost no librarian functions, which almost tragic on the M3- a real PITA to organize things using the board by itself.

Reggmail [Reply] I'm my eye's ''putting the manual on the onboard the keyboard'' is another way of saying, this is all you're going to get.

How many times your manual (often times for USA a bad translation from the Japan version) is at times incorrect, do not fully explain the functions, and would need to be updated as new updates is Introduced in the keyboard....if there be any updates?

Korg has always been innovative and leaders in coming up with excellent ideas in musicale products, and the Kronose is yet another.

However, the problem lies in the support, upgrades, third party involvement and lack of interaction with end users of their products after the sale.

I totally agree with you on the ''abandoned children syndrome'' but it's enough car salesmen on the floor to hype you and get your money, then after the first thousand miles, it's a rap...Lol.

When I dish out $3000 in today's economy, I am also paying for people to stand behind their product, not for a locked box that works good for the moment with no accountability or (short and very limited support).

Brother Randelph, from what I see, it's been people united who feel the same way about Korg pass dealings, people who bought and supported many of their products, Korg listens but seldom responds to people like yourself.

More people that I know stop investing in Korg, and if this happens enough, Korg will start doing right by their customers, it's all about hitting them where it hurts, and that's usually in the $$$$ pockets.

Korg has allot to do in order to gain back people like myself who lost trust in there company, they need to revamp their PR tactics, will it happen with the Kronos.....that remains to be seen.
Peace & blessings.

[voice-music]

Hey Everybody.

Have some question bout this workstation....

I am not an expert for workstations...but i work on it :=)

I have a fantom g and i am shure i will buy a Kronos this year.
What a great Instrument.

my questions:
i have will have some Music composed with the fantom g
and i wanna use it later for live performance ( strings, naturte sounds, electronic kits etc)

1:Can i load this songs in the Kronos??
so that i can load it as a sample and play to it in realtime?

2: has the Kronos phantompower for a mic?

3: Does it make any sense (soundquality etc) use the internal Kronos seqencer for COMPLETE Production?
Not "only" the Music...also the vocals?

mayby anyone can help me and have some answers.


....and sry for my baaaad english....am German :=)

[Jon Lord]

my questions:
i have will have some Music composed with the fantom g
and i wanna use it later for live performance ( strings, naturte sounds, electronic kits etc)

1:Can i load this songs in the Kronos??
so that i can load it as a sample and play to it in realtime?

You could export the song as a standard midi file from the G and import it to the sequencer in the Kronos and just setup what instruments/effects are assigned to the tracks.

About samples: yes you could load *.wav files and play them from the sequencer in realtime (which are streamed from the internal harddrive).

2: has the Kronos phantompower for a mic?

Nope, just regular 2x "line" inputs but no XLR with phantom power.

3: Does it make any sense (soundquality etc) use the internal Kronos seqencer for COMPLETE Production?
Not "only" the Music...also the vocals?

Quality wise there is nothing wrong with doing this all internally, its just a matter of preference if you like to lay your tracks down on a keyboard OR directly into a computer DAW

[voice-music]

You could export the song as a standard midi file from the G and import it to the sequencer in the Kronos and just setup what instruments/effects are assigned to the tracks.

yeah....but i have to sell my fantom before i get the Kronos....Money

About samples: yes you could load *.wav files and play them from the sequencer in realtime (which are streamed from the internal harddrive).

thats great.
so for example...i have a 4 minutes realtime sample which is streamed by the internal harddrive and i could play piano live at the same time ?
what abbout 2! different samples . Does that work?
that would ber awsome.

Not "only" the Music...also the vocals?

Quality wise there is nothing wrong with doing this all internally, its just a matter of preference if you like to lay your tracks down on a keyboard OR directly into a computer DAW[/quote]

Code: Select all

yap....but without phantom power my shure beta 87 doesnt work :=)
Well...i play instruments and sounds with the fantom g ( and in a few months with Kronos^^) and make a digital recording to the Tascam 2488 neo...after that i record the vocals to the Neo with some tc helicon create effects.
Nothing special...but it works ....i know its (digital) old shool :=)

[Jon Lord]

yeah....but i have to sell my fantom before i get the Kronos....Money Smile

But you could save them as midi files to a usb-drive from your G now and just import them to kronos when you have it.

so for example...i have a 4 minutes realtime sample which is streamed by the internal harddrive and i could play piano live at the same time ?
what abbout 2! different samples . Does that work?
that would ber awsome.

The Sequencer supports 8stereo or 16mono tracks (i guess amount of minutes is decided of how much Harddrive space you have left... i think, perhaps somebody from Korg can fill me in), about playing at the same time = no idea, i dont use internal-sequencers myself so you need to ask that from somebody else

[voice-music]

But you could save them as midi files to a usb-drive from your G now and just import them to kronos when you have it.

Ok....and i can also have music files in wav on a usb stick and can load them in the Kronos as a long realtime sample too?

The Sequencer supports 8stereo or 16mono tracks (i guess amount of minutes is decided of how much Harddrive space you have left... i think, perhaps somebody from Korg can fill me in), about playing at the same time = no idea, i dont use internal-sequencers myself so you need to ask that from somebody else

OK :=)
Mayby someone reads this and can answer. Would be great.

Thanxs Jon for helping.:=)

[jimknopf]

It makes no sense at all to use a workstation for whole projects up to mastering IMHO, unless for silly demo purposes proving that it can be done principally. Software DAWs are MUCH more powerful for editijg and finalising projects, and you always end up wasting lots and lots of time trying to do that on a workstation.

From my view the smart way is rather to make the workstation a strong elemet in the process: you can record all your ideas (midi and audio) to the workstation to develop a song idea, and often even get a pretty good first impression how it might sound and how it could be arranged basically.

Then you do the rest of the arranging and all the editing , finetuning, and mastering in a software DAW on your PC, after exporting your midi and audio material from the workstation there. And you can still use your workstation as a VSTi sound source there, while having other VSTi options added, just as you wish or need.

Missing phantom power is no big deal: you can get it from any decent mic preamp, if you want to record directly into the Kronos line input.

[voice-music]

From my view the smart way is rather to make the workstation a strong elemet in the process: you can record all your ideas (midi and audio) to the workstation to develop a song idea and get a pretty good first impression how it might sound and how it could be arranged.

Then you do the arranging and all the editing , finetuning, and mastering in a software DAW on your PC, after exporting your midi and audio material from the workstation.

well...i "only" wanna make some demos.....and i have the focus on good music more then perfect sound.
BUT i thought about a sequencer/editing software.

But i dont wanna spend the next 8 Months for study computer recording.
Thats not for me.

Am a songwriter....no good producer.

Thats why i like the Idea of workstations and i think Kronos could be the first Workstation whhich works for me perfectl.

But Jim...what about this software.
You said that i could make complete Midi/audio Production (with vocals) in the kronos and after that i load the stuff in my pc for editing and final master?
THAT sounds interessting & possible for me.

What do i need for it?
Cubase light version ?

Missing phantom power is no big deal: you can get it from any decent mic preamp, if you want to record directly into the Kronos line input.

ok...i thought the same one minute ago....you r right.
Thats no problem.
Thanx

[voice-music]

i forgot....

the old workstations normally dont have much internal audiosample time.
For example the Fantom only 360 seconds inj stereo hehe

What about the Kronos?
Should be some hours right?
1GB or more/less?

[Jon Lord]

But i dont wanna spend the next 8 Months for study computer recording.
Thats not for me.

To me this makes no sense, Me myself i really like the intuitivity when recording to an computer, and i would rip off my hair if i would have started using the built in sequencers in keyboards. What can be easier than just pick up a simple DAW and start recording your midi and audio tracks and get a complete overview of all tracks etc rather than fiddling around on a tiny screen (well huge but the interface for sequencing is not very intuitive)

Sure it works for quick sketches etc but making and editing whole songs.. jeebuz....

Maybe it's just me?

[voice-music]

To me this makes no sense, Me myself i really like the intuitivity when recording to an computer, and i would rip off my hair if i would have started using the built in sequencers in keyboards. What can be easier than just pick up a simple DAW and start recording your midi and audio tracks and get a complete overview of all tracks etc rather than fiddling around on a tiny screen (well huge but the interface for sequencing is not very intuitive)

Sure it works for quick sketches etc but making and editing whole songs.. jeebuz....

Maybe it's just me?

well to record full songs in a workstation works for me.
But i also ask Jim for the editing(mastering software.
I am interessted in it....coz i wanna have a more profesional recording.
and sound quallity (specially with vocal mastering.

[jimknopf]

I'm completely with Jon Lord on this:
it's much easier and faster to record and edit seriously (more than basic recording, which can be fine directly at the workstation) with a software DAW than on any workstation.

I wouldn't even care to record voice into the Kronos as long as a PC with sequencer software is in reach.

It is not wise to recommend any single software sequencer program: I'm sure this would require a whole new thread with many people jumping in with their preferences. And the specs and strengths and weaknesses are as different as taste for the different interfaces is among users.

Just check some of the well known current ones (some in various versions) on PC:
Cubase
Sonar
Studio One
Reaper

or Logic on a Mac

(I bet someone will also remind us of Ableton Live, ProTools 9 etc etc.)