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danatkorg wrote:

AnthonyB wrote:Well, Dan, the list/comparison chart (yours) seem to heavily "favour" the Oasys,

Yes, I agree. That's an accurate factual representation, I believe; the OASYS has seen a number of significant changes.

True,
But its true and valid as well to point out FWIW that all those M3 enhancements came in less than 7 months, and for free for the M3 end user not expecting them, where the list Dan pictures here took 4 years to come, and the major (nevertheless fantastic) upgrades took the end user of the OASYS, more than 200$ each, needless to say.

Synergy wrote:

StephenKay wrote:Oh, I would say that there's still a lengthy M3 wishlist that is unimplemented, and always will be - with every product. You forget that there were some OASYS wishlists earlier on that said things like "I wish we had FM synthesis", or "I wish we had more synth engines" or "I wish we had better brass sounds..." Some things will always be addressed, some will not..

I'll take your word for it in that there's still a lengthy M3 wishlist that is yet to be implemented but would the owners of M3 lament over a wishlist like we have on the Oasys? It's hard to imagine that M3 owners will refinance their mortgage and take a massive exodus to Oasys camp just to fulfill their cravings over FM Synthesis or better brass sounds. Not that it matters but my OS is stucked at 1.3.0.

What its clear about all this is that the M3 owners had some kind of benefit (which is right IMHO) from the OASYS wishlist over the years, thats true, and over the Fantom G Effect (128 MIDI / 24 Audio Tracks, extensive Editing tools, etc.) which affected Korg for sure, there was a lot of buzz about the Sequencer from the OASYS user base, and it was reflected in the M3 eXpanded Sequencer features we have seen released.

Davidb wrote:But its true and valid as well to point out FWIW that all those M3 enhancements came in less than 7 months

A small point: the M3 was announced over two years ago, in January 2007. It shipped that summer.

fdspeck wrote:
Now that we know that even members of Korg Japan watch this forum, I trust that you at least discuss the reactions expressed in this thread in whatever decision committee you have. Ponder the proposal with the pre-paid updates. If that’s not feasible for you there may be other options.

+1
Its seems there are interest from the OASYS users in this.

kenackr wrote:fdspec, I disagree completely with your comment that the list of updates HAS no validity or that Dan has recited it too often. I think the whiners don't know or don't remember what has been provided as updates.

Ken, I think you’ve got my argument wrong. Of course the list is valid. It’s an impressive list and at least I haven’t forgotten. I could recite most of it’s content by heart (by the way, that’s why I don’t follow the line „I paid so much and now you owe us something“ as you may have noticed). But I think it doesn’t help in the argument because – to use also an allegory – a chain always break at it’s weakest link. It doesn’t help to put additional strong links into the chain, it still breaks at it’s weakest link. You have to do something about the weak link.

kenackr wrote:Everyone should get off the "it has to do everything perfect" wagon and get realistic. There will never be an all inclusive instrument that does everything perfectly. What the Oasys does do, it does very very well and delivers the best sound on the market. End of story.

It’s not about bringing the Oasys into perfection. In that case we would talk about other features than the ones discussed in this post. It’s about doing something about the spots where it is quite imperfect. And yes, the Oasys comes nearer to perfection in many respects compared to the other mediocre instruments that flush the market. I think that’s why it is so hard for some people to accept the weak spots of the Oasys. The Oasys is their only chance to get an instrument which at least goes into the direction of the instrument they dream of. That’s why this discussion is held and why some people are so persistent.

kenackr wrote:Either be happy that you have the currently best synth on the market or sell it and move on to nag and whine to someone else. Continued whining on this forum or any other will never produce any positive results for you.

Get over it! Enough! Finito.

If you are happy with it, that’s ok for you. In that case it may be better to not read the posts of this thread anymore because they only could annoy you. But don’t complain if people try to achieve something, even now as the end of the Oasys was announced. After it was clear that all the polite begging, complaining and demanding had no effect I thought it was time for a different approach. That’s why I made my first post. Apparently there is a gap between what part of the Oasys users want and what Korg is being able to deliver. But it is my experience that there is no problem which can’t be solved somehow. The suitable solution is sometimes hard to find, but it exists. I don’t know if the pre-paid update is feasible for Korg but it is one possible solution.

I experience at the moment that the „economic situation argument“ comes easily about the lips of everyone. Everybody should understand it and nobody can prove it. I even find myself using it. In favour of Korg I assume that this argument is valid but I think there is something that must go in connection with it. If it is valid you can’t go with your old rules anymore. You must be prepared to do new and unusual things which you never thought you would do in the past. That’s why I think Korg should rethink how they interact with their customers and be open to creative problem solving suggestions.

I have another suggestion to make. If it is not feasible for Korg to allocate their developers on the Oasys anymore even if they get paid you should think about using somebody from the outside. I bet there are enough people here in the forum which are able to work on a sequencer update and do it for free. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t talk about releasing parts of the source code into the public domain. It is clear that Korg can’t allow that. I am talking about choosing one external developer. Make an NDA with him or whatever you need to protect your intellectual property. Than let him do the work and you can calm your customers for free (well nearly, you only have do give some support). I am no professional programmer. I can write software which does what I want it to do but I’m not as skilled and efficient as a professional programmer. Thus I’m maybe not the best person to do the job but if nobody else more skilled volunteers I would do it and I would do it for free.

In the case of EXf’s if you have done it cleverly you have created some interface to support a modular approach. Releasing the specs of this interface can’t do any harm. Let others finish what you are apparently not able to accomplish anymore.

-Frank-

fdspeck wrote:to use also an allegory – a chain always break at it’s weakest link. It doesn’t help to put additional strong links into the chain, it still breaks at it’s weakest link. You have to do something about the weak link.

Very well said, and exactly my point.

I think everybody incl. Korg Inc. (Japan/USA) should rather take this whole discussion as a huge compliment and be very flattered, because if the rest of the Oasys had not been of such high quality as it is, the sequenser issue would have been less important in the end. It is a matter of "proportions" here, and the sequenser part is the obvious weak link.

I got the Fantom G 2-3 months before I bought the Oasys and before I even knew about the sequenser issue in regards to the Oasys, so that was just a coincidence for my part, but which I am very happy for now. Most people know by now how amazing the Fantom G sequenser is so I don't have to go trough that. It's just that the Oasys with it's 4 USB's, Touch screen etc. has a full potential to get a sequenser that is fairly in proportion to the rest of it. One shouldn't have to buy a Fantom G separatly just to complement that. If possible, it's better to pay $200-300 then for a seq. upgrade if that was an option.

-Tiger

Guitarist / Classical pianist
Oslo, Norway
--------------------------------

Korg Oasys 88 - # 002113 + Karo Philh. Strings
Roland Fantom G6 + ARX-01
Yamaha Clavinova CVP-309PE

danatkorg wrote:

Davidb wrote:But its true and valid as well to point out FWIW that all those M3 enhancements came in less than 7 months

A small point: the M3 was announced over two years ago, in January 2007. It shipped that summer.

Well, I meant those improvements came over 7 months since last M3 O.S update.

Because if not, I would mean that Korg would have been working on the Sequencer since the very release of this keyboard, and would imply they lauched the product without the Sequencer and features they wanted for it, and were working on those features a year and a half since. And it dont think that was the case.

StephenKay wrote:Oh, I would say that there's still a lengthy M3 wishlist that is unimplemented, and always will be - with every product. You forget that there were some OASYS wishlists earlier on that said things like "I wish we had FM synthesis", or "I wish we had more synth engines" or "I wish we had better brass sounds..." Some things will always be addressed, some will not..

Granted Stephen, of course.

The main argument here is that if we would count, there has been by far more request like "I wish Korg could upgrade the internal Sequencer " all those 4 years (more even after the M3 eXpanded) than, maybe, others like "I wish we could have granular synthesis" or FM synthesis, or "I wish we had better brass sounds". Anyway I think the argument is taken.
(FWIW I had and paid all OASYS expansions myself, and I´m glad I did, they all worth its price).

As I was telling Dan, the M3 had a good Sequencer update in just 7 months or maybe 1 year and a half, it doesnt matter how much time did took Korg to do it, coming to this point. But they fulfilled it.
The OASYS users were requesting some kind of Sequencer update (editing tools, resolution, etc.) from almost day one all those 4 years, and Korg didnt updated it in all that period.

It lead us users to think Korg had not plans for it and they didnt want to do it at all, for some reason. They wanted to do it for the M3 instead, and not for the OASYS, even with all those request behind. It lets the OASYS user upset.

Tiger789 wrote:

fdspeck wrote:to use also an allegory – a chain always break at it’s weakest link. It doesn’t help to put additional strong links into the chain, it still breaks at it’s weakest link. You have to do something about the weak link.

Very well said, and exactly my point.

I think everybody incl. Korg Inc. (Japan/USA) should rather take this whole discussion as a huge compliment and be very flattered, because if the rest of the Oasys had not been of such high quality as it is, the sequenser issue would have been less important in the end. It is a matter of "proportions" here, and the sequenser part is the obvious weak link.

Most people know by now how amazing the Fantom G sequenser is so I don't have to go trough that. It's just that the Oasys with it's 4 USB's, Touch screen etc. has a full potential to get a sequenser that is fairly in proportion to the rest of it... If possible, it's better to pay $200-300 then for a seq. upgrade if that was an option.

I see it the same way you do, Tiger.

Heck, with what the OASYS already has onboard, name it; that great touchscreen, the fantastic control surface, the 4Track direct HDR system and the 16 Audio tracks provided, the great Fx routing, etc, etc, it was a pitty not to focus a little more in the sequencer area, only with some attention in the M3 eXpanded direction, and it could have been possibly the best sequencer ever implemented in a workstation.

fdspeck wrote: It’s not about bringing the Oasys into perfection. In that case we would talk about other features than the ones discussed in this post. It’s about doing something about the spots where it is quite imperfect. And yes, the Oasys comes nearer to perfection in many respects compared to the other mediocre instruments that flush the market. I think that’s why it is so hard for some people to accept the weak spots of the Oasys. The Oasys is their only chance to get an instrument which at least goes into the direction of the instrument they dream of. That’s why this discussion is held and why some people are so persistent.

I fully agree with your statement, Frank.

Apparently there is a gap between what part of the Oasys users want and what Korg is being able to deliver. But it is my experience that there is no problem which can’t be solved somehow. The suitable solution is sometimes hard to find, but it exists. I don’t know if the pre-paid update is feasible for Korg but it is one possible solution.

We see that people are willing to pay for this, myself included, if were feasible.

I have another suggestion to make. If it is not feasible for Korg to allocate their developers on the Oasys anymore even if they get paid you should think about using somebody from the outside. ... Than let him do the work and you can calm your customers for free (well nearly, you only have do give some support).

Interesting point, also.
IMHO what we need to do first is see if theres any posibility form Korg for resume the OASYS development in the future, economic storm aside, as well as ask them for a pre-paid update possibility.

Davidb wrote:
Interesting point, also.
IMHO what we need to do first is see if theres any posibility form Korg for resume the OASYS development in the future, economic storm aside, as well as ask them for a pre-paid update possibility.

That´s the way this disussion should lead to: not discussing the past (we have a superb workstation), but searching alternatives for the future!

As Dan said Korg Japan reads this forum, the American team obviously does. So don´t let us discuss around in circels about what has happened, but find ways what can happen.

Because of their policy Korg surely will not tell us as customers, if we can contribute to further decisions, but as they are watching the forum, they are interested in what we have to say I suppose. And if we can speak as "one voice" this might be reasonable for them. So until now 2 visions have been brought up - prepaid updates and third party engineering. Any other thoughts how we as customers can contribute to carry on the Oasys project?

SoulBe

SoulBe wrote:

Davidb wrote:
Interesting point, also.
IMHO what we need to do first is see if theres any posibility form Korg for resume the OASYS development in the future, economic storm aside, as well as ask them for a pre-paid update possibility.

That´s the way this disussion should lead to: not discussing the past (we have a superb workstation), but searching alternatives for the future!

As Dan said Korg Japan reads this forum, the American team obviously does. So don´t let us discuss around in circels about what has happened, but find ways what can happen.

Because of their policy Korg surely will not tell us as customers, if we can contribute to further decisions, but as they are watching the forum, they are interested in what we have to say I suppose. And if we can speak as "one voice" this might be reasonable for them. So until now 2 visions have been brought up - prepaid updates and third party engineering. Any other thoughts how we as customers can contribute to carry on the Oasys project?

SoulBe

Invest in korg stock as 1 Oasys community.

Bigs wrote:Reading this thread I can only conclude that the Oasys is a great product and that it's users are generally very happy with it. It just got axed a bit earlier then intended due to global economic situation. That's a shame, but as many in this and other threads said, the Oasys will rule their studio/live rig/whatever for a long period to come. No single product can match the Oasys in sound quality and versatility. So I guess the Oasys is good enough, no, great as it is already

This post really hit the nail on the head for me!

Regardless of the sequencer, the Oasys is one of the best synths ever made and nothing will change that. It gets used in some fashion in almost every song I make and it will be years before I completely plumb the depths of its massive programming potential.

The Oasys has a proud spot in my studio and will for the forseeable future:



Thanks to Jerry and Dan and all at Korg who have made this "dream come true" possible for me.

I have no bad feelings at all toward Korg...I got way more than I expected and bargained for with this machine!

The reason for the uproar is not about whether Oasys is the greatest one on the Milkyway or not, but it's usability as a workstation. It's got synth, sampling, multi audio track recorder, CD burner but nothing really to hold them together. You would still need additional monitor to do sequencing. People would've gone to pc solutions if they wanted far out synth engines.
Because of the M3 Superload, it will only cannibalize the resale value of Oasys. I won't be suprise to see used Oasys 88 going around for $4000 very soon. Kurzweil K2600x lasted longer and held its value high than Oasys.

Synergy wrote:The reason for the uproar is not about whether Oasys is the greatest one on the Milkyway or not, but it's usability as a workstation. It's got synth, sampling, multi audio track recorder, CD burner but nothing really to hold them together. You would still need additional monitor to do sequencing. People would've gone to pc solutions if they wanted far out synth engines.
Because of the M3 Superload, it will only cannibalize the resale value of Oasys. I won't be suprise to see used Oasys 88 going around for $4000 very soon. Kurzweil K2600x lasted longer and held its value high than Oasys.

Hi Synergy,

for me is the OASYS still the best sounding machine on the planet!
Thank you Korg for this wonderful instrument...

Best regards,

Kurt