Let me reveal what my concept of a TRUE King Korg synth would be: the best of Korg's past synths, merely updated to use the bits of technology that make the most sense.
Take the Karma, Z1/MOSS, TritonExtreme/Studio, Radias, R3, Oasys, AND the PA arrangers, and choose the best features for a performance synth. Mine would have the following, with why I would pick it
It would not be named King anything. My choice would be Korg Performance VA Synth Tech, 50 year anniversary ed., or PVAST50ae. Or any other name that isn't pretentious or full of over-promising hubris would probably be fine too.
KARMA. What better tech can you get for live performance of so many sounds that require sophisticated articulated arpeggios and patterns? It would need to be the latest KARMA of course, KARMA must be user updateable in flash, separate from the OS.
A basic arpeggiator, separate from KARMA. KARMA doesn't replace a basic arp, or visa versa. Both are good and needed, and they're really different even though they're related to arps and patterns.
A full set of arranger control buttons. If a $200 home keyboard can have them, then a pro synth should have them if some pros can use them for a live performance, even if other pros never use them because they play in a full band, or whatever. The whole idea of having separate arranger products from workstations and synths is stupid.
Having a tilt up module like the Radias was a great idea. One module for several different keybeds, or no keybeds, with a tilt stand for the rack that will work with any keyboard midi controller. Keybeds will be available in minikey and full size, in the full range from 25, 49, 61, 76, & 88, all available with aftertouch.
Multiple synth engines like Z1/MOSS, including sample-based synthesis. Includes all of the physical models of MOSS and the articulated acoustic models of the PA arrangers. Synth engines can be added and removed as apps, and the spec/API published for developers to make their own without license fees.
Uses the programmable, assignable knobs with feedback and LCD descriptions, as on the R3/OASYS. Has programmable lighted multicolor pads, like MASCHINE2 or APC40. Has at least one knob section for all of the basic synth editing elements, OSC, filter, EG, LFO, but not with hardwired values/silk screening. LCD's are used for all values that could be lists that need to change over time, particularly OSC wave types.
In addition to the multiple 1/4" outputs of the workstations, also have at least a pair of XLR balanced outs with ground-lift, output level pad, and safe from phantom power, so that a separate DI box is never needed. The 1/4" outputs need to have phantom power protection too. I should be able to hook up any cable the soundman hands me an know that I'm not going to blow up my outputs, and the mixer will get something that they can use without trouble. This should have been standard design since the invention of phantom power and the need to hook up keyboards to mixers. Having a separate stereo pair of outputs for local monitoring should be standard too for any performance keyboard. Separate DI's and splitters should be obsolete for keyboards - because the features are built-in.
Well, that's all for now. I have more items on my wish list, like an iPad dock, but that covers the important things.
KingKorg is legit!!!!
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Access Virus TI2 Whiteout Keyboard (111/150), Access Virus TI2 Polar DarkStar Special Edition, Gibson Custom Lite 2013, Roland MV-8800 
Except that nothing I listed requires a next generation. It's all stuff released in the last 15 years, just updated. Korg has discarded and ignored many of its best feature, never once asking anyone on this forum whether we want to see those features disappear, all for no damn good reason with supposed new and improved models that drop features as if they never existed. The Radias-R has most of this capability and Korg was selling them for $599 street. They were giving away EXB-MOSS cards for promotions. They had $200 rebates on the R3 at one point. There's nothing in what I listed that's expensive to produce. The Z1 was developed 15 years ago, so it couldn't be considered some extra powerful DSP by today's standards.MarPabl wrote:^^
That kind of synth seems like the next generation for Oasys/Kronos... I don't think we'll have it for $1,200.00
The Waldorf Blofeld Keyboard has comparable specs as the KingKorg, except that it was released 5 years ago and sells for $999 street, and it has 2 filters instead of one, and better FX. If Korg wanted to compete in the $1,300 synth range, maybe they shouldn't be delivering something that doesn't compare favorably to what Waldorf and Access released 5+ years ago with the Blofeld and Virus Snow.
Expcept, that from the demos I get the impression that the KK does sound significantly better than both in my ears (in the sense of a more analog soounding VA). And of course that (and rather the sound quality and choice than the number of filters) is the main point for me of using a synth.xmlguy wrote:The Waldorf Blofeld Keyboard has comparable specs as the KingKorg, except that it was released 5 years ago and sells for $999 street, and it has 2 filters instead of one, and better FX. If Korg wanted to compete in the $1,300 synth range, maybe they shouldn't be delivering something that doesn't compare favorably to what Waldorf and Access released 5+ years ago with the Blofeld and Virus Snow.MarPabl wrote:^^
That kind of synth seems like the next generation for Oasys/Kronos... I don't think we'll have it for $1,200.00
The Blofeld with it's interesting specs has quite a flat and lifeless sound IMHO (I wouldn't know what to use it for), and the flexible but neutral midrange Access sound can do a lot of things - except providing great VA leads and basses.
But of course a 1200€ synth like the kk should not show too big weaknesses in it's layout compared to other synths on the market. If Korg won't update known weaknesses (no program saving of EQ and Valve/Drive settings etc.) very fast, and won't deliver basic VA functions (real osc sync etc.), this synth will have no chance to be sold well, comparing the specs of others in that middle price range.
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EvilDragon
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It is an extremely flexible architecture, just makes me want to tweak more and see what sound it comes up with next. Definitely not lifeless sounding synth to me, with all the modulation (-> expression) possibilities it offers. Best bang for the buck synth in the last decade, and everybody should have one.jimknopf wrote:The Blofeld with it's interesting specs has quite a flat and lifeless sound IMHO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lt3q5yduY8
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xp50player
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Funny that Blofeld was brought up. As I was salivating over the KingKorg when it came out- I came across a Blofeld on Kijiji for $250 and grabbed it. Now my KingKorg lust has subsized (and ironcially, I am paring my Blofeld with my Korg SV-1- which is what the KingKorg interface takes homage too).
I guess I did a good thing (although still have a little love left for KK- will see how it sounds- might end up turfing my Blofeld and other secondary equipment to afford the KK if it is amazing).
I guess I did a good thing (although still have a little love left for KK- will see how it sounds- might end up turfing my Blofeld and other secondary equipment to afford the KK if it is amazing).
Korg SV-1, Prophet 12, DeepMind 12, 2xJU-06, Akai EWI USB
+1 again.jimknopf wrote:
Expcept, that from the demos I get the impression that the KK does sound significantly better than both in my ears (in the sense of a more analog soounding VA). And of course that (and rather the sound quality and choice than the number of filters) is the main point for me of using a synth.
The Blofeld with it's interesting specs has quite a flat and lifeless sound IMHO (I wouldn't know what to use it for), and the flexible but neutral midrange Access sound can do a lot of things - except providing great VA leads and basses.
But of course a 1200€ synth like the kk should not show too big weaknesses in it's layout compared to other synths on the market. If Korg won't update known weaknesses (no program saving of EQ and Valve/Drive settings etc.) very fast, and won't deliver basic VA functions (real osc sync etc.), this synth will have no chance to be sold well, comparing the specs of others in that middle price range.
Had a Virus TI2. Didn't click with me soundwise so sold it.
Still have a Blofeld - for sale. Nothing I program sounds to my liking. So hollow. And the terrible FX section doesn't help either.
Mind you, I don't claim to be a master programmer who can make any synth sing beautiful; but the sound is is a highly subjective matter: I loved it on my R3 so I'm probably game if Korg sorts out the patch saving matter. Else I might go for a used Radias while I still can.
Sounds like a win-win for Korg
Meanwhile... what if Nord drops a new VA?
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lloydsmith
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Timo
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Still waiting on the programming manual to form a yay/nay opinion, in particular:
• How extensive each oscillator is. Whether all three oscillators are fully featured (i.e. have all waveforms/models available for all oscillators at any one time, rather than having just one fully featured oscillator and a cut-down second and/or third like the Radias does).
• Whether oscillators can interact with one another (sync, ring, FM, etc.)
• How extensive the mod matrix is, in terms of how many different types of sources and destinations are available. A good synth would have almost everything being able to modulate anything else. Ideally you would also want to be able to modulate each of the 3 oscillators independently.
• Whether external audio input can be routed through the filters and effects. From the Basic Guide it initially appears you can.
• Whether you can overwrite factory patches to extend the user patch count from 100 to 300.
• Concerns that the simplified front panel interface will severely limit and hamper various features of each section - one example, LFOs: is it possible to select triggered phases, switch between poly/mono instances, one-shot mode, or the like... It's clear you can't do this from the front panel, but are these options available from the main LCD?
The valve settings not being saved are fine by me, as I feel the valve processing is something that's external, an overall global control, rather than internal and tied up. You can simply switch it on and dial it in as necessary. The EQ settings not being saved per patch are a bit strange though.
Otherwise, my prelimary thoughts....
The good:
• The filters look and sound amazing from what I could hear.
• Three rich oscillators independently modulated and summed as one (or stacked as two [timbres]) would stand to sound phat as phuq regardless of any minor shortcomings.
• Furthermore the interpolation to banish digital zippering is a huge boon.
• Fingers crossed, you should be able to pipe external audio into those juicy filters and effects.
• Aesthetically it looks pretty good.
The inbetween:
• I still find it odd that the effect controls are on the left, and the synth programming stuff on the right. I can only foresee being physically squeezed upwards to play the keys at the very top, and transposing the keyboard down a few octaves to compensate in order to limit the left-arm-over-right-hand obscurity when programming/demo'ing sounds at the same time.
• Two independent effects per timbre would've been nice, but it appears both timbres have to share the same effects, albeit with varying wetnesses.
• 2 LFOs are measly. 3 would've been nice - one for each main oscillator - for independent modulation. 5 LFO waveshapes also seem a little measly.
• Additionally 6 in/out mod matrix for a 3-oscillator synth, again, also seems measly, although as mentioned ultimately depends on what sources/destinations are available.
• Limited to one filter type per timbre.
The bad:
• Lack of aftertouch is unforgivable for a keyboard that cannot be switched out. A ribbon should also have been par for the course. Two huge omissions for a performance synth where modulation should be its strongest point.
I wouldn't call it my ideal synth. For that, I would dearly love to go a bit crazy and be able to draw my own waveforms for oscillators, LFOs and performance EG/mod seqs, and have control over substantially more modulation sources/destinations for pretty much near infinite possibilities - a fusion of Zebra waveform editing meets Massive performance sequencing meets Z3ta waveshaping meets KingKorg filters, with MOSS physical modelling thrown in, and not forgetting XY joystick, XY or XZ ribbon, velocity AND aftertouch performance hardware controllers. And like XMLguy, no silkscreened UI that has simple but restrictive, pre-defined features, but an LCD with interactive controls that are capable of being adaptive depending on the aspect you're editing. But the chance anyone would make that are about 0.00001%, unless you disappear inside the box.
• How extensive each oscillator is. Whether all three oscillators are fully featured (i.e. have all waveforms/models available for all oscillators at any one time, rather than having just one fully featured oscillator and a cut-down second and/or third like the Radias does).
• Whether oscillators can interact with one another (sync, ring, FM, etc.)
• How extensive the mod matrix is, in terms of how many different types of sources and destinations are available. A good synth would have almost everything being able to modulate anything else. Ideally you would also want to be able to modulate each of the 3 oscillators independently.
• Whether external audio input can be routed through the filters and effects. From the Basic Guide it initially appears you can.
• Whether you can overwrite factory patches to extend the user patch count from 100 to 300.
• Concerns that the simplified front panel interface will severely limit and hamper various features of each section - one example, LFOs: is it possible to select triggered phases, switch between poly/mono instances, one-shot mode, or the like... It's clear you can't do this from the front panel, but are these options available from the main LCD?
The valve settings not being saved are fine by me, as I feel the valve processing is something that's external, an overall global control, rather than internal and tied up. You can simply switch it on and dial it in as necessary. The EQ settings not being saved per patch are a bit strange though.
Otherwise, my prelimary thoughts....
The good:
• The filters look and sound amazing from what I could hear.
• Three rich oscillators independently modulated and summed as one (or stacked as two [timbres]) would stand to sound phat as phuq regardless of any minor shortcomings.
• Furthermore the interpolation to banish digital zippering is a huge boon.
• Fingers crossed, you should be able to pipe external audio into those juicy filters and effects.
• Aesthetically it looks pretty good.
The inbetween:
• I still find it odd that the effect controls are on the left, and the synth programming stuff on the right. I can only foresee being physically squeezed upwards to play the keys at the very top, and transposing the keyboard down a few octaves to compensate in order to limit the left-arm-over-right-hand obscurity when programming/demo'ing sounds at the same time.
• Two independent effects per timbre would've been nice, but it appears both timbres have to share the same effects, albeit with varying wetnesses.
• 2 LFOs are measly. 3 would've been nice - one for each main oscillator - for independent modulation. 5 LFO waveshapes also seem a little measly.
• Additionally 6 in/out mod matrix for a 3-oscillator synth, again, also seems measly, although as mentioned ultimately depends on what sources/destinations are available.
• Limited to one filter type per timbre.
The bad:
• Lack of aftertouch is unforgivable for a keyboard that cannot be switched out. A ribbon should also have been par for the course. Two huge omissions for a performance synth where modulation should be its strongest point.
I wouldn't call it my ideal synth. For that, I would dearly love to go a bit crazy and be able to draw my own waveforms for oscillators, LFOs and performance EG/mod seqs, and have control over substantially more modulation sources/destinations for pretty much near infinite possibilities - a fusion of Zebra waveform editing meets Massive performance sequencing meets Z3ta waveshaping meets KingKorg filters, with MOSS physical modelling thrown in, and not forgetting XY joystick, XY or XZ ribbon, velocity AND aftertouch performance hardware controllers. And like XMLguy, no silkscreened UI that has simple but restrictive, pre-defined features, but an LCD with interactive controls that are capable of being adaptive depending on the aspect you're editing. But the chance anyone would make that are about 0.00001%, unless you disappear inside the box.
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Kevin Nolan
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$1299 - that's expensive. I might have considered purchasing one, but not at that price and especially since it does't have aftertouch.tpantano wrote:<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Mnu5uR9VRcU" frameborder="0"></iframe>
Absolutely phenomenal!
A pity - otherwise a nice sounding synth.
Kevin.
Hmm...I dunno. Haven't there been quite similar instruments released like that before (Alesis Ion, Novation Supernova). They had about the same (and at some points even better) specs. I don't see any modulation routings for instance. Or is that all "under the hood"? BTW, I wished they included the Polysix ensemble effect. Well, let's see when the PDF manual comes online, and see if it's really worth spending 1299 Euro on.
Edit: the user manual now is online at Korg.com, and I see that there are 6 modulation routings (virtual patch).
Edit: the user manual now is online at Korg.com, and I see that there are 6 modulation routings (virtual patch).
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EvilDragon
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I think it looks like a neat keyboard. I definitely want to play one for sure, but im still on the fence about buying one. From the sound examples i like what i hear, and like always i take early criticisms and comparisons with a grain of saltEvilDragon wrote:You get 6 "virtual patches" (like mod matrix slots).Oldretro wrote:I don't see any modulation routings for instance. Or is that all "under the hood"?
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