I finally put my hands on the kronos

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:19 pm

"evil"... ME?

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:55 pm

ozy wrote:I am a PC user

Now I understand...

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:32 pm

That can't be Ozy's baby picture, I mean hey where are the 1.5 octave baby mitts!

Well that and since you're a few years older then me the picture should be quite sepia like by now, if not a tin type!

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:31 pm

Bertotti wrote:the picture should be quite sepia like by now, if not a tin type!

sepia? you kidding.

Of course that's not me.

THIS is what pictures looked like when I was a kid. Here's me at 3, with my family:

Sepia was invented 30000 years later

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:12 pm

Looks like an Egytian "Jungle Book".......

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:54 pm

ScoobyDoo555 wrote:"Jungle Book"

exactamundo.

And you don't know how right you are (smart WR quote apart).

If it was me and dad, that's the book he'd be reading me. sweet (sweet-sour) memories...

ScoobyDoo555 · Post by **ScoobyDoo555** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:29 am

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:40 pm

I must be lost. I thought that was a pictogram of cave midi.

SpIdErWeB · Post by **SpIdErWeB** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:22 am

EvilDragon wrote:Yes, in MIXES. But SINGLE SAMPLES? No. Would you dare to try my double blind test?

Sorry, I haven't read the 14+ pages, so I'm maybe off topic on this comment... but differences between 16 and 24 bits can definitely be heard on mixes, but in some case, it could also be heard on single sample.

However, it depends of a lot of things... Some 16 bits well-sampled/recorded samples can sound better than some crappy 24 bits samples. Having more depth just give you more db room in the case you haven't use a compressor/limiter during the record and you large dynamic... For instance a drummer that plays a lot with dynamic (Jazz/Blues).

So if you kept between 6 and 12 db margin to avoid digital clipping during the recording, you might lose 2 bits. That's why, using 24 Bits for 144 db dynamic range is very appreciable (mainly for audio recording and mixing).

Now, for Sample Playback, if the samples are well recorded and sound-designed in 16 bits, it could be more than enough... mainly since the final product (CD at the best case) will end in 16 bits anyway. It's sad, mainly when you work on a project on 24/96 and you hear it later on 16/44.1, or even compressed in AAC in iTunes, or worst in YouTube (ewk!!).

I wish we could sell music in iTunes in 24/96, or at least in 24/44.1... In this case, Sample Players might find interest to have higher quality samples...

Until then, sounds developers such Korg, Yamaha, Eastwest, IK Multimedia, Best Services, Zero-G, Vir2, to only name few... know how to do good sounds, even in 16-bits "only"...

Phil

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:22 am

I completely agree that it's possible to hear the difference between 16- and 24-bit audio recordings. The analogy from there, however, is to the *output* of the KRONOS, not to the individual samples.

When we're talking about synths, the sum of all the oscillators ultimately has to be represented at the outputs. Basically, you're just adding numbers together. You can verify the figures below just by continually adding "FFFF" on a Hex calculator (the maximum value for a 16-bit number), and looking at the binary equivalent:

To play two full-scale 16-bit samples without clipping, you need 17 bits of resolution.
To play three or four, you need 18 bits.
five to seven: 19 bits
eight to fifteen: 20 bits
sixteen to thirty-one: 21 bits
32 to 63: 22 bits
64 to 127: 23 bits
128 to 255: 24 bits
...and that leads us to the KRONOS, with 140 voices of HD-1, 180 voices of PolysixEX, 200 voices of CX-3, and 400 mono channels of SGX-1. (Since they're stereo, you only have to sum 200 of them per left/right channel.)

In other words, a 24 bit master output can barely be assured to represent the full polyphony of the HD-1 when using 16-bit samples at full scale. If you had any more bits in the source samples, you'd have to turn them down so that they'd fall off the bottom at the outputs.

Now, in the real world not all of the samples will be at full gain all of the time, so you're likely to have more headroom than the worst case. Panning would also affect volume at the left or right outputs. On the other hand, there are plenty of places that you can add gain beyond that in the sample, including both effects and things with the voice chain itself such as resonant filters, drive and low boost, and EQ. I imagine that there are other factors that I'm not accounting for, in both directions.

So, could you hear the effect of using 24-bit samples instead of 16-bit? I think it would depend on context. If there are only a few voices playing, and they're very loud, and you're not doing much processing to them, then yes, you might. On the other hand, if there are many voices playing, and you're using normal effects and synthesis features, the final 24-bit resolution at output should mean that 16-bit source samples are a pretty good match.

Mike Conway · Post by **Mike Conway** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:45 am

robbinhood wrote:Kronos will be my centerpiece! i dont understan the hate.. the Oasys was fantastic, this is the oasys plus more...

Exactamundo! Speaking of "powerful," this is the kind of stuff that floats my boat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA_xrr7LALI

(Damn, I posted that 4 years ago!)

SpIdErWeB · Post by **SpIdErWeB** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:12 am

Yep Dan,

Great reply. And that's the reason why I think Korg did good choice by having 24 bits audio recording and final output, and keeping 16 bits for Samples. It surely takes less RAM and Disk space and that's still way enough...

Phil

Dave Ferris · Post by **Dave Ferris** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:18 am

Sina172 wrote:
I agree with this. I just ordered a 9' Bluthner for my new house. My God! What a sound! I'm not putting it in the Studio, though. It's going in the living room at the new house.

My next pianos are gonna be the Fazioli F308 and F278. And they are BOTH going to my studio.

I'm gonna put a 6' Fazioli in my master bedroom as well!

Trust me. Pics ARE coming, guys. For the past 2 months I have been planning the new studio space and it's a LOT of work. Not to mention relocating to the new house as well. There's a LOT going on right now.

Sina

Wow Sina, did you win the lottery ?

Is that a brand new Bluth Model 1 ?

I just picked out a 1918 Model 6 (6' 3" ) for a friend off the LA CL. It needs some action work but it has a gorgeous tone. Different then a Steinway.

Faziolis too ? Wow, all I can say is get me on whatever gig it is you're doing....

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:15 am

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:40 am

Sina172 wrote:
Dave Ferris wrote:
Sina172 wrote:
I agree with this. I just ordered a 9' Bluthner for my new house. My God! What a sound! I'm not putting it in the Studio, though. It's going in the living room at the new house.

My next pianos are gonna be the Fazioli F308 and F278. And they are BOTH going to my studio.

I'm gonna put a 6' Fazioli in my master bedroom as well!

Trust me. Pics ARE coming, guys. For the past 2 months I have been planning the new studio space and it's a LOT of work. Not to mention relocating to the new house as well. There's a LOT going on right now.

Sina
Wow Sina, did you win the lottery ?

Is that a brand new Bluth Model 1 ?

I just picked out a 1918 Model 6 (6' 3" ) for a friend off the LA CL. It needs some action work but it has a gorgeous tone. Different then a Steinway.

Faziolis too ? Wow, all I can say is get me on whatever gig it is you're doing....
Yeah the Bluthner is Brand New! It was GORGEOUS!

It won't be here for 6 months though, because I had to special order it and they are made to order, unless you buy the store model. I wanted mine to come delivered to my house in the wooden crate. So I have to wait

The Faziolis won't be here for 10 MONTHS! GAH! Luckily the guy who took my order was nice enough to give me his floor model until mine came in.

The ONLY Steinways I will EVER own are the Hamburg Steinways. New York Steinways SUCK. And they are NOT the same company in any way, shape or form!

I did play on a Hamburg Steinway yesterday and almost bought it, too. Then I played on the Fazioli afterwards, and realize how INFERIOR the Steinway was by a HUGE margin in comparison.

I ordered a Shigeru Kawai EX for my family room as well. It's such a HUGE gorgeous room, with high ceilings and I wanted an unprecedented Japanese Grand in my arsenal. The Shigeru did it for me. I was at NAMM 2008 and I was amazed to see a Shigeru EX Piano, because the biggest they went was 7' 6." The Shigeru was basically a smaller version of the EX model. Now they have a Shigeru EX which is by far one of THE BEST pianos I have EVER laid my hands on! Fast forward to now in 2011, I got the Shigeru EX.

And then I HAVE to have a Yamaha grand. So I ordered two of those as well. A 9ft. CFX for the studio and a 6' for the breakfast area in the kitchen.

The Yamahas and the Kawai's are relatively quick to come in so they'll be here in about 6 weeks.

When all is said and done, you guys will not only get pictures and the full scoop of the studio and the property, but I will reveal to you what I did and how I got there. And you WILL be VERY surprised. Maybe even shocked, because your gonna hear things you have probably NEVER heard before!

Sina

I would like just one picture, now, of any of this.