Korg's new Kaossilator Pro.

[bluemind]

I think the new gate arp allows for a different kind of expression, you can't be as precise as you can with the original kaossilator, but it will definately create "kaoss" and interesting rhytmic patterns when manipulating the slider while recording.

Only time will tell which way is better and I think that will also depend on everyones individual preferences.

That said, it would be nice to have the original patterns as an option, that wouldn't certainly hurt anyone .

[xmlguy]

Actually, I already know which kind of patterns I like. The new gate "time" arp mode on the Pro works like the DS-10 Kaosspad gate mode, except I think the $29 DS-10 arp is BETTER than the Pro, since it allows you to overlay the arp on top of the current sequence. The original Kaosillator patterns are more complex, interesting, a most importantly - consistently repeatable - which flipping a fader around definitely is NOT. The DS-10 even has a Swing parameter that applies to the arp. Doesn't look like the Pro can Swing. The EMX uses both the ribbon and a fader for the arp - and their function is reversable - and the arp SENDS MIDI NOTES OUT. I think the EMX arp is better than the Pro too.

Good luck trying to get a consistent pattern out of the Pro. One of my favorite patterns on the Original King Of Kaossilation is #15, to get a syncopated upbeat, and other patterns swing.

[Tom 62]

The lack of the original Kaossilator patterns is extremely annoying for me. Patterns are an essential key feature when using an X/Y pad to create music. I never was inspired by the Electribe's arpeggiators because they can do only a simple note repeat in a fixed rhythmical grid. That's boring.

This is your wishlist in action... You asked for it, you got it!

BTW, who has asked for removing the patterns?

[SMK]

Actually, I already know which kind of patterns I like. The new gate "time" arp mode on the Pro works like the DS-10 Kaosspad gate mode, except I think the $29 DS-10 arp is BETTER than the Pro, since it allows you to overlay the arp on top of the current sequence. The original Kaosillator patterns are more complex, interesting, a most importantly - consistently repeatable - which flipping a fader around definitely is NOT. The DS-10 even has a Swing parameter that applies to the arp. Doesn't look like the Pro can Swing. The EMX uses both the ribbon and a fader for the arp - and their function is reversable - and the arp SENDS MIDI NOTES OUT. I think the EMX arp is better than the Pro too.

Good luck trying to get a consistent pattern out of the Pro. One of my favorite patterns on the Original King Of Kaossilation is #15, to get a syncopated upbeat, and other patterns swing.

Cool, you got your Kaossilator still. You can still use #15 arp.

I think before anyone rips Korg apart for not having the pre-programed arps the big question for Rich is can arp change/slide "movements" be recorded in the loop? Can you loop the action of you sliding the arp slider up and down? The reason why I ask this is because I since the arp speed and arp time are set to different CC#, I can use my pad kontroller's kaoss xy pad to control those functions with out messing around with switch on the back of the KOpro.

If this is the case then the possibilities are endless as far as making your own arp/gate patterns.

[SMK]

Ok wait a minute! The reviewer stated that he was controlling the KOpros synths with a midi controller keyboard!!!

I thought Rich said this was not going to happen (aside for some extensive mapping). I need to watch this again. I think the reviewer is misrepresenting something here.

There's probably some mapping going on at the laptop-end, but they promised to show how to do it when the full review comes out.

If you have a MIDI controller that can send customizeable CC messages from the keys, you can do it directly... otherwise, you'll need software as a go-between.

After looking at the manual I think I need clarification on how this can be done!

X is CC12 and Y is CC13, how do you break down notes to separate CC# for this you are limited to one number in the X/Y CC controls?

[k0va5]

The lack of the original Kaossilator patterns is extremely annoying for me. Patterns are an essential key feature when using an X/Y pad to create music. I never was inspired by the Electribe's arpeggiators because they can do only a simple note repeat in a fixed rhythmical grid. That's boring.

This is your wishlist in action... You asked for it, you got it!

BTW, who has asked for removing the patterns?

^^

this

[Randy|Kaoss]

The lack of the original Kaossilator patterns is extremely annoying for me. Patterns are an essential key feature when using an X/Y pad to create music. I never was inspired by the Electribe's arpeggiators because they can do only a simple note repeat in a fixed rhythmical grid. That's boring.

This is your wishlist in action... You asked for it, you got it!

BTW, who has asked for removing the patterns?

Agree, and a possible deal breaker. The Gate patterns are what gave the Kaossilator such amazing flexibility. You could put together complex syncopated drum loops in seconds and have multi-layered lead and basslines that were all in perfect sync.

Bad call Korg!

[xmlguy]

Cool, you got your Kaossilator still. You can still use #15 arp.

At this point, I'm not sure I'm going to buy the Kaossilator Pro, and for me, that says a lot, as I use the Original King of Kaossilation all the time. The KP3 gives me 4 loops, ability to save them to flash/computer, great drum patterns, resampling, and FX. So the Pro doesn't give me much that I don't have. The DS-10 is a programmable Kaossilator. I make my own programs on it, so 200 programs vs. 100 aren't worth $4/each additional one, particularly if they aren't in categories like Lead/Acoustic/Bass. Another major problem with the Kaossilator (both) is the inability to easily do chord progressions, as changing the chord+ scale with the dial is too slow and difficult to do accurately when playing live. The DS-10 stores the Key/Scale for the Kaosspad in each pattern, making chord changes much faster.

My next purchase will be the DS-10 plus. After that, probably another K01 as backup, and maybe a couple of cheap miniKPs for XY pad spare parts.

I didn't get the microSampler because it was overpriced at $500 for what it was worth to me, and $400 for the Pro isn't looking good. At $320 I'll probably pull the trigger, since that's only about double the price I pay to get the K01.

[RichF]

SMK: feature request noted, and yes, you can record the arpeggiator's output into the Loop Banks.

xmlguy/Tom 69: Nobody ever asks to take features out.

The fact is, the vast majority of the Kaossilato Pro's new features are in right line with customer requests, so we're thrilled that we were able to give so many people what they wanted. USB, saving/loading from a memory card, more drum sounds... These are requests we heard almost every day.

We absolutely do hear a lot of love for the Electribe arpeggiators, and the hardware from the KP3/KOPro chassis is perfect for implementing something similar. Apologies to those of you that really love your Kaossilator's patterns and wanted to see them here, we love our Kaossilators too, and we hope you keep enjoying them. Understand that while the KOPro's Gate Arp is a very different approach, one thing it's not is a step back.

None of this really matters until you play it yourself, but maybe I can provide a little insight that goes beyond what you read in the specs: The new arp feels more like a real part of the instrument, rather than a "stencil" approach. You can PLAY it, instead of just turning a pattern on and off. For example, you know how on the original Kaossilator, you can change the loop length to get stuttering effects? Well, now you can use the Gate Arp, and do it on individual instruments, with visual feedback on the LCD display. You can make rhythmic fills using the new drum samples, and the arp movement can go much faster than any of the original Kaossilator's patterns. Especially if you're making a glitchy-sounding tune, some of the more aggressive bass/lead programs sound absolutely ferocious with that arp cranked up fast. It's also predictable at lower speeds, since the big GATE ARP button flashes green with every beat.

Again, I really want to encourage you to hold back the flames until you get your hands on it. I understand that the missing patterns aren't sitting well... but reactions are always so much more valuable after you really get a chance to dig in and hear what the new goodies can do.

Plus, remember that you can also record the original Kaossilator's arp patterns right into the KOPro via the audio inputs!

[RichF]

After looking at the manual I think I need clarification on how this can be done!

X is CC12 and Y is CC13, how do you break down notes to separate CC# for this you are limited to one number in the X/Y CC controls?

The CC messages can all carry a value of 0-127, which is where the X and Y axis position is read. If you don't specify a range for CC#12 or CC#13, they'll be set at their lowest value (bottom-left corner of the pad).

As an example, I've setting up a template in MIDI-OX (it's free, if you don't have it, it's an indispensable tool) to translate MIDI notes to CC messages.

When it hears any note-on message, the first thing it does is set CC#92 (pad touch) to 127 (on). So, now there's a virtual finger on the pad. The note on messages also triggers a corresponding value on CC#12 (pitch). I set the joystick Y-axis (or modwheel) to control CC#13, which is the Y axis.

So far it's working pretty well... I'll share it with you guys once I get it polished!

[xmlguy]

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise when I get my hands on one.

I have been less than impressed by the demonstrations of the gate arp in the videos. The rapid flipping of that fader up and down is revolting to me. Having to reach to the back to change the arp mode is less than friendly design. Nobody would've ever intentionally designed it that way in their right mind, and it wouldn't be that way if the KP3 didn't have the connection switch there (which only needs to be set once when you hook it up - not flipped around during actual use). Reusing the same KP3 case design causes these strange compromises.

I certainly do appreciate the time and effort you've put into making the videos, Rich, so my criticism is limited to the function of the gate/arp. However, the videos haven't spent much time focused on the gate/arp beyond a few seconds of fader flipouts and one change of the speed/time switch. It kinda got lost in the shuffle of the checklist of features that are essential when doing a overview.

[salamanderanagram]

oh lord, looks like the MIDI implementation is identical to the KP3... setting this thing up to play notes is going to be a pain in the ass.

when i wrote my patch for the KP3 that outputs kaosillator note on/off messages instead of CC values, i was confounded by the seemingly random distribution of which square on the 8x8 grid corresponded to which CC value. 8 squares, 128 possible values you'd think square one would be 0-15, square 2 would be 16-31, and so forth. nope. totally random.

not to mention to play one note on the KOPro will require at least 3 midi messages - pad X, pad Y and pad touch. there are several things undesirable about this - no polyphony, added latency, more difficulty of programming, and finally you have to have a computer in your rig simply to play a synth from a keyboard. something is not right here.

i really do believe this is based on the same hardware and circuitry as the kp3 given all of these really annoying similarities that you would think would have been abandoned in a completely new product design.

frankly i've been holding back my criticism of this device because i want to see one in action. but the more details that trickle forth the more it seems like a rush job.

at $400 you get a synth with 100 (or whatever) presets, only one parameter per synth (WEAK!), that can't be played from a regular synth or ableton's midi sequencer or really anything without an overly complicated patch in between....

a $400 monophonic synth with no velocity that you can't program new sounds for.... think about it.

[bluemind]

I seem to have a different view about what this product is. I see this as a direct extension of the original kaossilator, with more possibilities, but still primarily a spontaneous tool for ideas and jamming.

People seem to want this to be a full on synthesizer with deep patch editing possibilities, but I think the KOPro it's a great device because it's so simple. You can focus on making music and creating new ideas instead of focusing on perfecting your patches and sounds and accomplishing nothing.

Sure, I agree that it would be great if Korg would release a full blown synthesizer with kaoss pad control, but on the other hand, I don't quite see the point. This device sends out midi note data so you can play whatever you want with it. And the pad allows you to do stuff that would be very hard to play with a conventional keyboard.

What you get when you buy this thing is not just a great tool for spontaneus jamming, you also get a nice live looping device and a unique synth controller. Of course there is always something annoying features with every product and something is always missing, but I think people should stop thinking that this device is the answer to all prayers all-in-one synthesizer and give it credit for what it is.

[JJP]

the heart of the kaoss allways was the loop - what else. it's not a keyboard so the midi out is not so important to me.

with the ko-pro I see many good changes. 4 loop banks with mic in. you can do stuff like jamie lidell did in his early years with that feature ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKqE1d1ucRg ) plus you have 4 kaossilators (without the patterns ) and kind of a synth and a drumset and a vocator. (and I have no KP, maybe that's important)

still it's sad, that it has stupid faults (a button on the BACK?).
I ordered one, will test it and let my heart decide (or my friends?)

[Tom 62]

I understand that the missing patterns aren't sitting well... but reactions are always so much more valuable after you really get a chance to dig in and hear what the new goodies can do.

That's right, Rich. But based on my experiences with the ESX's arpeggiator I don't expect too much fun. We'll see. Another topic: Is it possible to use the KO Pro as USB MIDI interface? I would like to use it here and there for connecting my Microkorg with my MacBook.