Tats leaving Korg? This is Unofficial

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:27 pm

Designers and engineers are driven by corporate goals in a lot of cases, the current Kory crop of analog is for a specific market to compare it to the likes of old Kory synths that serious professionals use is absurd. Volga's and minilogues srventheir purpose, exceptionally well, but to hold Tat's accountable for the trend is ridiculous. He made products to a specific market and hit it out of the park. I would suggest that all this crap be focused more to Korg corporate and if they see a significant market for a, serious synth, exceptionally innovative, then I am sure they will work in one. Sadly the big market doesn't seem to be that type of product and they are able to be a bit lazy with the Kronos still kicking synth workstation ass. I wish they could afford to go out on a limb and build such a synth but economic or investor pressure probably isn't allowing for that. I am in sadly awed at the seemingly personal attacks that happen in this forum at times.

John01W · Post by **John01W** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:32 pm

Bertotti wrote: the current Kory crop of analog is for a specific market to compare it to the likes of old Kory synths that serious professionals use is absurd.

Horse s**t....complete....I may agree with the pocket synths....but the Minilogue, KARP, and MS-20 sorry disagree....

In regards to the Minilogue, it's quite clear that to some the bias against it's form factor and it's affordable price makes some folks here unable to give it it's due. If you've seen Markus Fuller's teardown on this synth you'd see that its VERY well constructed and a quality product.....super quality switches, metal shaft high quality pots...nice aluminum panel, real wood back....Sure it has a quirky joystick(which is functional and the things you can route it to are very cool)....but no less quirky than those pressure buttons on an Odyssey.

The analog classics you mention besides polyphony(which I agree and I think Korg would do right by offer a module version that can be poly-chained to the key version) the ML is more fully featured synthesis wise and technology wise....Each voice has it's own processor and self-calibrates maintaining it's VCOs....Folks today who never dealt with one of those old classics who would have tuning issues and maintenance that are just easy for the Minilogue, they'd be screaming bloody murder when it went out of tune with real VCOs....When not tuning and calibrating itself(which contributed to the reason they were able to keep the costs down) the ML can at anytime to a quick button press and tune it up easily.

More than that, it is more fully featured than many of the classics you mentioned...each VCO has more waveforms that are waveshapable/pwm, more egs and better more fully featured lfo, crossmod, ring and sync...2 filter types. You can assign an lfo to the freely assignable 2nd eg at 3 different waveforms to the waveshape/pitch/filter.....the menu options are many for the synth parameters...you have an arp AND a sequencer...Some of those old synths(great synths no question) didn't even have midi. There's a lot of processing power under the hood of the ML.

The sequencer has 4 tracks for motion control that can record any switch/knob function you like.....it's like having 4 programmable extra hands/modulation sources to control whatever you want....the possibilities are pretty limitless.... all this for 500$ and the build quality(metal shaft pots and quality switches, metal top, back wood panel) is excellent. It's a killer synth man, and what Korg/Tats did IS brilliant on this synth to get it to 500 bucks. There's more that it can do, the voice modes...just amazing for 500 bucks but great for any synth.

To act like that is the same as a Volca is just flawed....it just is. Some of you folks consider the years from the M1 til' OASYS the golden years at korg.....for analog folks, it's been referred to as the digital dark age.....the analog revival going on now outside of the super-rompler Workstation crowd(didn't most folks here claim the workstation was dead?) is very real....Real enough to get Tom Oberheim producing again and Collaborating with Dave Smith on the OB6(my dream synth at the moment) and David Friend supervising the Odyssey reissue with Korg....it's not just to make bleep boxes, but those retro analog sounds many of us grew up with and a younger generation to appreciate(which is very cool).

Where do I sit in regards to the rompler years vs. the classic analog...I'm a fan of both and I think there's room for both. I cut my teeth on the Korg workstations of the late 80's through more current Korgs. I love both.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:47 pm

John01W wrote:
Bertotti wrote: the current Kory crop of analog is for a specific market to compare it to the likes of old Kory synths that serious professionals use is absurd.
Horse s**t....complete....I may agree with the pocket synths....but the Minilogue, KARP, and MS-20 sorry disagree....

In regards to the Minilogue, it's quite clear that to some the bias against it's form factor and it's affordable price makes some folks here unable to give it it's due. If you've seen Markus Fuller's teardown on this synth you'd see that its VERY well constructed and a quality product.....super quality switches, metal shaft high quality pots...nice aluminum panel, real wood back....Sure it has a quirky joystick(which is functional and the things you can route it to are very cool)....but no less quirky than those pressure buttons on an Odyssey.

The analog classics you mention besides polyphony(which I agree and I think Korg would do right by offer a module version that can be poly-chained to the key version) the ML is more fully featured synthesis wise and technology wise....Each voice has it's own processor and self-calibrates maintaining it's VCOs....Folks today who never dealt with one of those old classics who would have tuning issues and maintenance that are just easy for the Minilogue, they'd be screaming bloody murder when it went out of tune with real VCOs....When not tuning and calibrating itself(which contributed to the reason they were able to keep the costs down) the ML can at anytime to a quick button press and tune it up easily.

More than that, it is more fully featured than many of the classics you mentioned...each VCO has more waveforms that are waveshapable/pwm, more egs and better more fully featured lfo, crossmod, ring and sync...2 filter types. You can assign an lfo to the freely assignable 2nd eg at 3 different waveforms to the waveshape/pitch/filter.....the menu options are many for the synth parameters...you have an arp AND a sequencer...Some of those old synths(great synths no question) didn't even have midi. There's a lot of processing power under the hood of the ML.

The sequencer has 4 tracks for motion control that can record any switch/knob function you like.....it's like having 4 programmable extra hands/modulation sources to control whatever you want....the possibilities are pretty limitless.... all this for 500$ and the build quality(metal shaft pots and quality switches, metal top, back wood panel) is excellent. It's a killer synth man, and what Korg/Tats did IS brilliant on this synth to get it to 500 bucks. There's more that it can do, the voice modes...just amazing for 500 bucks but great for any synth.

To act like that is the same as a Volca is just flawed....it just is.

Ok I think you misunderstand me but thats ok if you are going to quote me make sure it is in context, I think maybe you are confusing my post with someone else. I have a KARP and would love a Minilogue. I am not however comparing the Minilogue to the old synths. It was made for a different market todays market is not the same as ten or more years ago, and hit the nail on the head. Good for Korg. I agree with everything you said about the Minilogue and having said time and time again I would never buy mini keys I haven't but these slim keys are fine by me other wise I wouldn't have a KARP, I do wish it would poly chain to more KARPS! I am however sick of auto correct correcting Korg to read Kory.

Edit to add, the OB6 is my current dream synth as well. i think it sounds incredible!

John01W · Post by **John01W** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:57 pm

Awesome, thanks for your thoughtful reply! I added some more to my post before your reply...in general I think my post wasn't really directed solely on you(sorry if I misinterpreted you) but the feeling in general on some of these posts in regards to the GOOD stuff in the analog realm that Korg has brought to the table as of late(I don't disagree with about the pocket synth stuff)!

aron · Post by **aron** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:06 am

> Actually - I do have a sizeable number if ideas, quite developed

Do what I did. When I really think something is worth developing and I know I will probably not develop it - I write the major companies and tell them about my idea. Who knows, maybe it will be implemented?

I'm still amazed something as obvious as a motion sequencer - like the JP8000 had - but made "non confusing Roland" is not a standard feature in most analogs. Think about how much easier programming an analog sound would be?

Yamaha though about it on the SY22 and well... maybe the Montage is like it, but really - it could be a simple feature on most analogs and it could make programming sounds so much easier than working with envelopes.

John01W · Post by **John01W** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:28 am

Bertotti wrote:
Edit to add, the OB6 is my current dream synth as well. i think it sounds incredible!

I LUST after it(OB6)...it's got THAT sound, I want it SOOOOOO BAD lmao! Sorry I know this is off topic folks! What Tom and Dave did on the OB6 is magic, we're living in a good time to play synths

BTW, nice synth you got there too(KARP)

BTW, watching these posts about no Korg innovation in the digital realm....man I'm just not feeling that....The KingKORG gets no love here, but Korg made great strides in digital filters...they sound AWESOME with all those filter emulations in a single synth....I bet Kronos users would love to get in on that action in an update.

Another thing, Kronos' ability to stream multisamples directly from the drive...I mean that's incredible....just a few years ago it would take a dedicated PC to do that and Kronos does it with all those vast amounts of effects...that's something the OASYS couldn't dream of....I mean we're talking GIGS of samples...what other keyboard can do that? Any?

I think folks are spoiled, really....Korg is kickin' ass and taking no prisoners. If Korg wants to sell some cool toys to folks who love them, more power to them! I want Korg to be successful as long as they're kicking out awesome products like the Minilogue, KARP, MS20, Kronos and keeping development for them going(the ones that can)....great. Korg is doing awesome on the software front too....I love the iWavestation(Korg, for the love of God, please put a global midi channel on there...I bought a plugkey just for the iWavestation and it's useless in my setup because you left out a selectable midi channel)

I kinda feel for Korg in a sense...they give the world an awesome analog poly synth with real vcos with tons of features and awesome build quality and sound for 500 and what do they get here....a kick in the sack lol...

They make a keyboard that destroys the OASYS and makes it the price of their normal flagships what do they get for it....another kick in the arse lol.

Other synth companies just pretty much gave up on the WS because of the Kronos...they don't know what to do lol.

billysynth1 · Post by **billysynth1** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:48 am

I know what these companies need to do and that's to bring out a:
Hybrid-Work Station.

Analogue mini moog knobs and arp sliders on one side and the work station touch screen and buttons on the other side, these two technologies should be able to communicate with each other similar to Yamaha's SY 77/99 RCM technology.

billy

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:07 pm

Bertotti wrote:Designers and engineers are driven by corporate goals in a lot of cases, the current Kory crop of analog is for a specific market to compare it to the likes of old Kory synths that serious professionals use is absurd. Volga's and minilogues srventheir purpose, exceptionally well, but to hold Tat's accountable for the trend is ridiculous. He made products to a specific market and hit it out of the park. I would suggest that all this crap be focused more to Korg corporate and if they see a significant market for a, serious synth, exceptionally innovative, then I am sure they will work in one. Sadly the big market doesn't seem to be that type of product and they are able to be a bit lazy with the Kronos still kicking synth workstation ass. I wish they could afford to go out on a limb and build such a synth but economic or investor pressure probably isn't allowing for that. I am in sadly awed at the seemingly personal attacks that happen in this forum at times.

The nonsense is haling this guy a genius and using phrases like "hit it out of the park". He was responsible for keys that are too small to play, and little boxes based on past instruments so poorly specified that they are useless beyond little setups to create bips and bops.

I think there's a reality check needed here!

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:28 pm

Kevin I think it is rather arrogant to think everything is to be made to pro specs and marketed for pro users or prosumers. Maybe my perspective is different but I see these little devices some of you seem to despise so as gateway drugs. Made to the entry and low budget markets. I think from my point of view he did hit it out of the market, now if these were aimed at pros like you then I would have to take your view on things and say it was a sad sad attempt but like I said I do not think that is the case. I will stand by my comment of Hit it out of the park keeping in mind the market I figured they were made for. So I say again it isn'tTat's but the market that mad these decisions and they filled in the need just fine. I hope they make a fortune off them and invest a bit into the next Kronos, but with trends the way they are I am not holding my breath and certainly not attacking Tat's for it.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:52 pm

FWIW I'm 100% with Bertotti here even though I would personally enjoy a top quality analog or hybrid synth from Korg with normal size keys and whatnot. The amount of disrespect that oozes from Kevin's description of Tats is staggering, and that from a guy who PMs me warning me not get personal when our discussions get a little heated.

Start your own thread to make this point over and over again, Kevin, and see how many people you can convince. Tats was writing a friendly and personal farewell message here which he was under no obligation to do. I'm sure he wouldn't mind a little disagreement but it's still pretty bad taste the way you're describing his efforts.

Also, it's amazing how little understanding you have for the fact that not everyone enjoys making and listening to music the way you do.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:09 pm

SanderXpander wrote:Also, it's amazing how little understanding you have for the fact that not everyone enjoys making and listening to music the way you do.

No s**t. But try to reason with a stubborn Eire and that's what you get, heh. They ALWAYS have to be right. Even when they aren't.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:35 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:Also, it's amazing how little understanding you have for the fact that not everyone enjoys making and listening to music the way you do.
No s**t. But try to reason with a stubborn Eire and that's what you get, heh. They ALWAYS have to be right. Even when they aren't.

hahaha My Grandmother was a Struthers! I seen it all the time in my dad, I was adopted so am not sure how that relates to my blood but I was told I am half German so I can say to much! hahaha

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:13 pm

this is a very cool forum.

if someone sees a post that is ' inflammatory' they could also ignore it.

Its impossible to get 4 people to agree on a pizza to order. So its even more unlikely to get a bunch of musicians to agree on a few keyboards. Someone is sure to say its ' crep '.

There are other sites that are better at going on and on about disagreement and opinion.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:03 pm

Bertotti wrote:Kevin I think it is rather arrogant to think everything is to be made to pro specs and marketed for pro users or prosumers. Maybe my perspective is different but I see these little devices some of you seem to despise so as gateway drugs. Made to the entry and low budget markets. I think from my point of view he did hit it out of the market, now if these were aimed at pros like you then I would have to take your view on things and say it was a sad sad attempt but like I said I do not think that is the case. I will stand by my comment of Hit it out of the park keeping in mind the market I figured they were made for. So I say again it isn'tTat's but the market that mad these decisions and they filled in the need just fine. I hope they make a fortune off them and invest a bit into the next Kronos, but with trends the way they are I am not holding my breath and certainly not attacking Tat's for it.

the issue isn't whether something is "pro spec" - or not. Any piece of equipment can be used by a "pro"

The issue isn't even the devices Korg have recently devoted themselves to - many of them are fine.

The issue is - they abandoned their legacy for this stuff. They shut down quality innovation for it. It's just like what happened in Yamaha synths in the late 90's.

Look at Korg's web site now. It's like a Casio web site. Just hpw many years have you been banging on about wanting a new workstation? It's quite a few. Why has it not happened? Because it's clear that "The Suits" moved into Korg around the time of the Kronos, and shut down a multitude of lines of deep experience and innovation in Korg.

I am not attacking Tats because of some emotive dislike of the guy. I genuinely see him as too blind to Korg's legacy to give a damn about it one way or the other. And now he's off - without a care in the world - as if he did us all some sort of big favour.

I've got to tell you - the obliviousness to this is staggering. It's as if 30 years of Korg innovation just didn't matter. Yamaha ditches their deep, rich legacy on an almost NASA-Apollo shutdown scale.

Korg have instigate the same dismantlement over the past 10 years with this guy at the helm, he jumps ship, and you are all licking his boots.

Where is Korg going ?? Answer that - and I'll shut up.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:54 pm

Kevin Nolan wrote:
Bertotti wrote:Kevin I think it is rather arrogant to think everything is to be made to pro specs

T Because it's clear that "The Suits" moved into Korg around the time of the Kronos, and shut down a multitude of lines of deep experience and innovation in Korg.

I am not attacking Tats because of some emotive dislike of the guy. I genuinely see him as too blind to Korg's legacy to give a damn about it one way or the other. And now he's off - without a care in the world - as if he did us all some sort of big favour.

I've got to tell you - the obliviousness to this is staggering. It's as if 30 years of Korg innovation just didn't matter. Yamaha ditches their deep, rich legacy on an almost NASA-Apollo shutdown scale.

Korg have instigate the same dismantlement over the past 10 years with this guy at the helm, he jumps ship, and you are all licking his boots.

Where is Korg going ?? Answer that - and I'll shut up.
Korg has a new ( 2 yr new ) President. He is different from his Father, who retired.

Thats big part of the changes going on