Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

[NormC]

Yeah, I am starting to consider that option, especially if I choose the Kronos, there isn't just one 88 key Kronos. There is the Kronso, the Kronos 2, and 2 others I think...well 1 other that I'd consider because one of them is a lighter weighted keybed and that is not what I want at all.

Hello, My wife is from Ipswich. There are only two current 88 key models. The Kronos 2 88 (fully weighted keyboard) and the Kronos LS 88 (unweighted synth style keyboard). Both are identical except for keybed and color. Both are much more powerful workstations than the Montage.

[GregC]

Few more points.

I have always thought the Montage to be very expensive in terms of value.

I think this perception, right or wrong, may have resulted in less volume sales
for year 1 and year 2.

In comparison, Kronos sales in year 1 and year 2, were very strong , my estimate is a few thousand sold each year.

Furthermore, Yamaha launched the successfully priced MODX as an alternative.

There are business reasons for Yamaha to introduce such an alternative so quickly . One of which Montage sales were simply not that strong.

As a careful gear person, MODX is a no brainer purchase vs Montage.

I don't know if this occurred to the O/P.

If you 'go by the numbers' and accept some of my statements, the #'s present a more compelling story, a bigger picture, vs various opinions and anecdotal comments.

[vertig0spin]

1 other that I'd consider because one of them is a lighter weighted keybed and that is not what I want at all.
.

WOW That is a Weird comment !
its only the older synths that are heavy, the new ones are all alot lighter now.

I meant to say "that I'd 'Not' consider because it has a lighter weighted keybed and that is not what I want at all". One of the Kronos keybed's is not the weighted action and the keyboard I want to buy must have a weighted action to feel as much like a real acoustic piano as possible.

i treated my self to the modx88 key ,its HUGE !, with ZERO transportation problems.
i cant understand the concept of buying 2 identical keyboards, just because its too Heavy
to transport from A to B , so therefore buy another one for a different venue ?
thats illogical to me.

Well, if I had the money I would buy every different type of new Synth/Workstation out there. And I'd buy extra ones for leaving in the studio and ones for the road, because it's so easy must to backup to USB and restore everything onto a second keyboard.
But since I don't have that kind of money, and I will be doing well to just get one keyboard, buying 2 doesn't make sense to me.

[vertig0spin]

Hello, My wife is from Ipswich. There are only two current 88 key models. The Kronos 2 88 (fully weighted keyboard) and the Kronos LS 88 (unweighted synth style keyboard). Both are identical except for keybed and color. Both are much more powerful workstations than the Montage.

Beautiful town!
What about the Kronos (the original), Kronos X and Kronos Platinum?
https://www.korg.com/caen/products/synthesizers/

Probably at least one or more are discontinued maybe.!?

[vertig0spin]

Few more points.
Furthermore, Yamaha launched the successfully priced MODX as an alternative.

There are business reasons for Yamaha to introduce such an alternative so quickly . One of which Montage sales were simply not that strong.

As a careful gear person, MODX is a no brainer purchase vs Montage.

I have no idea about the Montage, MODX, Kronos, etc. sales, but my guess was that the MODX was for a wider audience of players, where as the Montage was more for professional keyboard players.

I saw parallels to Korgs Krome vs Kronos. For some time I was researching the Krome 88 vs the MODX8, but neither appealed to me enough, except for the price tag. The MODX8's keybed is GHS and so the lower notes don't trigger piano samples at the correct velocity, where as the highest notes trigger them perfectly. So it wasn't like playing a piano at all. I adjusted the global velocity, setting it to soft, and then the lower notes were much better, but the higher notes were way too much in volume and velocity.

For someone like me who has one of the main requirements as having a keyboard that feels and sounds as much like a real acoustic grand as possible, the MODX8 was simply unplayable! Now the MODX 6 or 7 would be a good choice for a keyboard if someone didn't care to have the weighted keybed action.

[LewTheKeyboardGuy]

I had the chance of both the montage 8 and kronos 2 88 at my nearest dealer here in the UK. I found working with the kronos in terms of physical interaction much better than the montage. The Montage does not have a cohesive feel or method of data input or program / combi access and is difficult to work with. it drove me mad that within 3 minutes of trying to use the montage I went straight back to the kronos.

I found the build quality of the montage reminiscent of Yamaha's EX5 and EX7 synths from the late 90's and to be honest, disappointing. I would never entertain the montage as a rig.

If I had the chance of another workstation to go with my two kronos rigs, It'd be either the kurzweil PC3A or Forte. Roland have lost their game with workstation keyboards ever since they were taken to court by Fantom Works over the use of the name "Fantom" which roland were forced to discontinue the G series, then come out with an awful excuse for a rig calling it the FA-08 etc. plastic as heck, poor weighted action, disappointing to say the least. To me, if I wanted Roland sound source, I'd have to either get an XV5080 or Integra 7.

I would really consider the kronos over the montage in terms of editing, full sequencing for audio and midi, etc, it's a heck of a machine and worth every penny to me. The libraries offered on the Korg Shop are classy and worth the money, Even more exciting is WavesArt, wow, to me that is class!

I hope this helps.

lew

[vertig0spin]

I had the chance of both the montage 8 and kronos 2 88 at my nearest dealer here in the UK. I found working with the kronos in terms of physical interaction much better than the montage. The Montage does not have a cohesive feel or method of data input or program / combi access and is difficult to work with. it drove me mad that within 3 minutes of trying to use the montage I went straight back to the kronos.

I found the build quality of the montage reminiscent of Yamaha's EX5 and EX7 synths from the late 90's and to be honest, disappointing. I would never entertain the montage as a rig.

I hope this helps.
lew

Thanks! Every little bit helps to paint a bigger overall picture...

[NormC]

Hello, My wife is from Ipswich. There are only two current 88 key models. The Kronos 2 88 (fully weighted keyboard) and the Kronos LS 88 (unweighted synth style keyboard). Both are identical except for keybed and color. Both are much more powerful workstations than the Montage.

Beautiful town!
What about the Kronos (the original), Kronos X and Kronos Platinum?
https://www.korg.com/caen/products/synthesizers/

Probably at least one or more are discontinued maybe.!?

Yes, original Kronos was replaced by the X which was replaced by the Kronos 2. The Platinum and Gold were just special editions with color changes not functionality changes. There are only two current 88 key models as I mentioned above.

[GregC]

Fe

I have no idea about the Montage, MODX, Kronos, etc. sales, but my guess was that the MODX was for a wider audience of players, where as the Montage was more for professional keyboard players.

The MODX8's keybed is GHS and so the lower notes don't trigger piano samples at the correct velocity, where as the highest notes trigger them perfectly. So it wasn't like playing a piano at all.
I adjusted the global velocity, setting it to soft, and then the lower notes were much better, but the higher notes were way too much in volume and velocity.

For someone like me who has one of the main requirements as having a keyboard that feels and sounds as much like a real acoustic grand as possible, the MODX8 was simply unplayable! n.

Well then.

"one of the main requirements as having a keyboard that feels and sounds as much like a real acoustic grand as possible, "

Looks like you should visit a store that has the K2 88 and Montage 88
so you can make a valid AP comparison.

[vertig0spin]

Well then.
"one of the main requirements as having a keyboard that feels and sounds as much like a real acoustic grand as possible, "
Looks like you should visit a store that has the K2 88 and Montage 88
so you can make a valid AP comparison.

No, I decided to base my whole decision on which keyboard has the flashiest blue light on it's main knob!

Yeah, you're right, it's definitely looking like I need to take a trip to Montreal before I make any kind of final decision. Of course I will definitely have to call the store first to make sure they have them both in the show room!


I found out something today on a Montage Forum from someone who has both the Kronos and the Montage. There was a discussion regarding Polyphony, which is extremely important for me since I want to be able to have multiple instruments sequenced, while at the same time I also play numerous multiple layer sounds, splits, vocoder, etc.

What they said was that they wished their Kronos had more Polyphony, which I thought was odd, because I had read about all the 9 engines on the Kronos and all the Polyphony that each engine had. Knowing that the Montage only has 2 engines, but the polyphony can be added together, I had assumed that the Kronos could do the same. This person said it was just the opposite and that you can't add polyphony from all the engines the Kronos, and that when playing numerous voices('parts') from the two engines on the Montage, there is more polyphony than the Kronos.
They weren't talking about the polyphony of just playing one instrument from one engine, but rather, multiple instruments from possibly several engines.
Is this true about the Kronos' polyphony?

[19naia]

Kronos' polyphony?

Kronos polyphony can be an issue. Not all synth engines have the same polyphony and they do not seem to combine to lend to total onboard polyphony.
STR-1 engine sound will have 40 polyphony and when layered with an HD-1 sound, HD-1 will have 140 polyphony and STR-1 will still have 40 polyphony.
And it seems that you cannot have above 200 polyphony total no matter how many sounds you stack.
The real issue with Montage may be that both synth engines have the same high polyphony of 128. Kronos has a high polyphony of 200.
So Kronos has higher polyphony to offer, but the 9 synth engines chop the availability up in complex ways.
Complex ways like having the lowest polyphony engine of 40 polyphony being layered with a 200 polyphony engine.
HD-1 and CX3 engines have 140 & 200 polyphony.
Polysix has 180 polyphony and the rest are much less than 140.

Montage has Max 128 polyphony listed per each engine.
It is a different story if Montage allows one engine to use all 128 and still allow the other engine to use its entire 128 at the same time in a combi/multi.
Is total onboard polyphony a combined 128+128=256? Montage?

Based on Kronos Polyphony issues, it does not seem like kronos allows more than 200 polyphony at one time even where multiple engines are stacked together. If CX3 with its 200 polyphony is stacked with HD-1 and its 140 polyphony, kronos seems more like it has them share 200 polyphony rather than add 200 to 140 for total onboard polyphony increase.

Also, regardless of what the montage owner says of Montage polyphony performance, i would not make too much sense of what the same owner says about their kronos polyphony until the owner talked about what Kronos polyphony management is being done.
Sounds like Montage polyphony management is easier or hands free.

But when Kronos has a synth engine with 200 polyphony, another with 180 polyphony and another with 140 polyphony, there is more to consider comparing Montage polyphony where Montage has two synth engines only and each maxes out at 128.

If Montage allows both engines to each haver their own independent 128 polyphony, then great and that seems to beat kronos for total polyphony at one time in a combi/multi.

Kronos version of FM-X montage, is MOD-7 and Kronos MOD-7 for FM synthesis, is only 52 polyphony. Montage FM synthesis is via FMX engine ans that has 128 polyphony.
Kronos version of montage AWM, is HD-1. And HD-1 in kronos has 140 rather than 128 that AWM offers in Montage.

I tried layereing two STR-1 sounds on kronos and it did not go well for polyphony.
STR-1 has 40 polyphony and stacking two of them in combi seemed to bring them down to 20 polyphony each, and even less per note played because polyphony counts per each OSC or sample slot used. Some synth engines bring sounds already layered 2 or 4 deep, before going to combi.
Each added layer in the engine in program, cuts polyphony into fractions at the key stroke/midi note.
And every step of layering fractions it more from there.
Hard to follow how the fractioning goes in combi when layering various engines with their varied polyphony counts.
Polyphony management tricks in Kronos is a must know or it will be hard to get problem free stacks that go more 4 layers deep.

[nowtime]

For controlling VST’s , Kronos is handicapped for me since it doesn’t have proper octave buttons. FYI.

[NETWORK1]

Something else to consider :
Kronos runs a 32bit system
so if your operating from a 64bit daw-setup, then the only way to use the kronos sounds
would be via sampling.



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[kronoSphere]

Even in those times when every one has a DAW, the sequencer in a workstation (what a word !?!!) is a must (even with its proper lacks) because IMHO the sequencer is the open road for imagination, for really understandinghow can melt combi and progtams, and it is the best tools for building effects, changing the combis to make them more appropriate to a particular musical project etc etc... ...
Correct me if I am wrong : The Montage does not have an internal sequencer.

[NETWORK1]

Correct me if I am wrong : The Montage does not have an internal sequencer.

it has a 16 trax sequencer, you could easily create a pop song on it
if you include the sampled-vocals too.

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11682