Korg Forums

Biggles wrote:Do Korg Pa buyers have short memories?

The 4X was released and it took years before the OS reached the the Next version.

Pa700 and 1000 were both released in 2017 and have not had any updates at all only bug fixes. That to me gives a very big question mark on Korg’s business strategy.

Nautilus is released and Kronos dropped so there is no direct competitor with Roland and Yamaha and does that flag a question mark on Korg business strategy?

I bought a Kross 2 in 2018 and it took 18 months before a significant update was released.

Yet the 5X is released and the clammer of buyers rushing to buy is overwhelming only to find a product that does not meet their expectations.

Buying a Mark 1 version of any product means you are a Beta tester, that is the reality of buying what is a niche market product.

My faith in Korg is severely dented

Why must they add more features according to your post?
When you buy a car you expect a free new and better engine after 2-3 years? I don't understand this at all.
We buy it for what it is when we buy it and of course we expect and want the bugs to be fixed but we have no right to demand adding more than what was advertised when we bought it.
And now pa5x has reached that state.
It has everything it was advertised with right now.Still with bugs but everything is in there.
The bugs will get away sooner or later.
Although i totally agree that a professional musician that is working live as his/her main job should never get rid of the old keyboard before the new one is ready and if he/she can't afford to have 3 keyboards (2 in perfect working order is a must for me for anyone that wants to be called professional) , they should not buy the new one until everything suggests it will meet their requirements...

musiccankill wrote:

Biggles wrote:Do Korg Pa buyers have short memories?

The 4X was released and it took years before the OS reached the the Next version.

Pa700 and 1000 were both released in 2017 and have not had any updates at all only bug fixes. That to me gives a very big question mark on Korg’s business strategy.

Nautilus is released and Kronos dropped so there is no direct competitor with Roland and Yamaha and does that flag a question mark on Korg business strategy?

I bought a Kross 2 in 2018 and it took 18 months before a significant update was released.

Yet the 5X is released and the clammer of buyers rushing to buy is overwhelming only to find a product that does not meet their expectations.

Buying a Mark 1 version of any product means you are a Beta tester, that is the reality of buying what is a niche market product.

My faith in Korg is severely dented

Why must they add more features according to your post?
When you buy a car you expect a free new and better engine after 2-3 years? I don't understand this at all.
We buy it for what it is when we buy it and of course we expect and want the bugs to be fixed but we have no right to demand adding more than what was advertised when we bought it.
And now pa5x has reached that state.
It has everything it was advertised with right now.Still with bugs but everything is in there.
The bugs will get away sooner or later.
Although i totally agree that a professional musician that is working live as his/her main job should never get rid of the old keyboard before the new one is ready and if he/she can't afford to have 3 keyboards (2 in perfect working order is a must for me for anyone that wants to be called professional) , they should not buy the new one until everything suggests it will meet their requirements...

+1. Makes sense to me.

Those who pretend that Pa5X have reached the state of having everything it was and still being advertised are seriously kidding them selves plus they not doing Korg any favour as well by supporting with a buggy not finished keyboard at a top price nearly a year after it was released!

There are some fundamentals wrong because of this new OS concept some new functions or added features will have premature bugs I accept that as well however I expect old familiar ones to be perfect or even better because its an upgrade and working from the start since its nothing new there to experiment about.

To have a simple transpose or scale function with bugs even after first update its to put it nicely f.. up. There is nothing professional about it! Don't get me started on other functions. We are targeting availability in late 2023. PLEASE NOTE: all details and dates are subject to change without notice! Says it all really.

It brings me back memories when the first NEXT OS was released on Pa4X and some "professional" was determined that pad synch was not a bug and did not exist! (Until of course thanks God was fixed by Korg on a later update)

kleant wrote:Those who pretend that Pa5X have reached the state of having everything it was and still being advertised are seriously kidding them selves plus they not doing Korg any favour as well by supporting with a buggy not finished keyboard at a top price nearly a year after it was released!

There are some fundamentals wrong because of this new OS concept some new functions or added features will have premature bugs I accept that as well however I expect old familiar ones to be perfect or even better because its an upgrade and working from the start since its nothing new there to experiment about.

To have a simple transpose or scale function with bugs even after first update its to put it nicely f.. up. There is nothing professional about it! Don't get me started on other functions. We are targeting availability in late 2023. PLEASE NOTE: all details and dates are subject to change without notice! Says it all really.

It brings me back memories when the first NEXT OS was released on Pa4X and some "professional" was determined that pad synch was not a bug and did not exist! (Until of course thanks God was fixed by Korg on a later update)

Here is the problem!
You (the buyer) BELIEVED it would have EVERYTHING that was in the pa4x , korg never said that and there are no such details anywhere (product page, manual , etc)..It is not korg (or any company) who should be blamed for that. It is the buyer that didn't take the time to read the specs and the manual to take an educated decision.
Even though that is the case, they did say ,after people requested them , that they are going to add them , although again they don't have to.

Seriosly Wow! First you say everything is working which is not true and then after something not working you say its working as advertised, which still is not true and not the case and its wrong! Basically is wrong on any way I see it.

We are targeting availability in late 2023.
If Korg hopefully will get a grip then propably Pa5X will reflect as advertised until then PLEASE NOTE: all details and dates are subject to change without notice!

Anyway on a positive note if you enjoy it as it is good luck with it.

karmathanever wrote:

Sam CA wrote:Those who rely on electronic instruments, should not get rid of their working keyboards until it's safe to do so.

The biggest issue with all of this (IMHO) is the absence of communication & customer care.
Korg's FAQs were a joke - EVERY answer had the disclaimer ".....subject to change without notice..." - really fills you with confidence eh!!!!! So we really have no idea when or if anything will be fixed and stabilised... just waiting for the next update...

+1

musiccankill wrote:Here is the problem!
You (the buyer) BELIEVED it would have EVERYTHING that was in the pa4x , korg never said that and there are no such details anywhere (product page, manual , etc)..It is not korg (or any company) who should be blamed for that. It is the buyer that didn't take the time to read the specs and the manual to take an educated decision.
Even though that is the case, they did say ,after people requested them , that they are going to add them , although again they don't have to.

There goes that error-buzzer again... Korg ADVERTISED prior to the release which functions should become available onto the Pa5X. So you as buyer couldn't get ANY information it isn't available in its first version prior you buy one. So Korg mislead the (potential) buyer.

And when you as buyer COMPARE specifications of both Pa4X and Pa5X you'll make the conclusion the Pa5X is more exclusive than the Pa4X ever has been.

And last but not least! The manual came online for download several weeks AFTER people could buy the Pa5X. Lack of customer support. Even the bug fix version 1.1.0 couldn't fix ALL the bugs present in 1.0 nor did it implement functions which were promised at its presentation.

This sum-up isn't imho reliable to customers... Please read this:

sienenhirter wrote:Korg offers a Pa5x - it doesn't match the properties as offered, that's dubious. It is irrelevant whether customers have already bought the device or want to buy it soon. It is not obligatory for the customer to check the properties offered and sometimes it is not even possible. However, it is obligatory for Korg to deliver exclusively for the properties offered - everything else is dubious. because customers can rely on it with confidence.

The last 23 years I overtrusted KORG and before buying a new model I always sell the old one. With the new PA5X this is the LAST TIME!!! Next time I will wait at least 2 years before buying any newer model!!! It's a nightmare waiting for KORG to fix simple things so long!!! PA5X is a great instrument but if there were any PA4Xs or Pa1000s in the market today I would prefer to buy one instead until PA5X's firmware is functional.

Regards,
Dimitris

musiccankill wrote:[Here is the problem!
You (the buyer) BELIEVED it would have EVERYTHING that was in the pa4x , korg never said that and there are no such details anywhere (product page, manual , etc)..It is not korg (or any company) who should be blamed for that. It is the buyer that didn't take the time to read the specs and the manual to take an educated decision.
Even though that is the case, they did say ,after people requested them , that they are going to add them , although again they don't have to.

I disagree with this. You totally missed the context here. If the Pa5x just dropped from the sky as a totally new model that had nothing to do with the Pa1x-Pa4x, then yes. They've been doing that with their workstations forever! Almost every model has a totally different name and drastically different from the previous models. I've owned many of them in the past and that's been the case. When a new model comes out, people are prepared for anything. I mean Anything!!!

That's NEVER been the case with the arranger series. Just look at the product naming convention. Triton, Oasys, Kronos vs, Pa1x, ... Pa5x!!! There's a history behind all this. I've owned the Pa800, Pa3x and Pa4x. They were practically the same but improved version of each other. Any reasonable person would assume that would be the case with the Pa5x and beyond....unless the company communicates that. After all most of their customers come from older models, and Korg had established a business model with them for the longest time.

I could understand if they used a different naming scheme, or at least communicated certain info with people who paid top $ for their product. None of that happened.

Wooow, What the FUNK is going on here,

KORG is responsible for EVERYTHING about this new 5X.
All the FUNKED UP videos with some strange ALIENS from outer Space leaked videos.

They did not do things in a god way.

Just to remember, We all know that All this started with PA-80

So my questions, IF Korg is like it was WHARE IS PAOLO, He still worx for KORG!

Why do they not ASK us things,

And did they finished PA3X yet? Pa 900? Pa 1000 and 700? NO
Still buggy .
7 Year, I you think you are same as for 7 years back, NO, we do better things we learn, create and build better.
Did Korg just was away from this planet? NO
And MAKING CASH, Yes they did, And still do.

Dont you think they read things in Social Media, YES THEY DO.

If i was them, FIX IT, make something, you have all you need,

If they don,t change all this, They will never be the same again.

FROM DAY ONE, i was telling here, This time they FUNKED IT UP!
I hope they can fix it.
And YES 1.0 some things ware working better, 1.1 is still a BETA

musiccankill wrote: ...You (the buyer) BELIEVED it would have EVERYTHING that was in the pa4x , korg never said that and there are no such details anywhere (product page, manual , etc)..

That is quibbling - ask for Pa5x from korg.com you get an advertising brochure: Pa5X is the new flagship in the KORG Professional Arranger lineup, redefining an arranger keyboard.

Previously I had an arranger from Korg and looked for manual etc and it was possible to download:

Pa5x-Performance-Guide_v10_E1 35.260 kb
Pa5x-Performance-Guide_v10_E2 42.076 kb
Pa5x-Performance-Guide_v10_E3 29.015 kb

Pa5x_User_Guide-v10_E1 51.489 kb
Pa5x_User_Guide-v10_E1 59.279 kb

Which of them is to use for seeking details you think "Korg NEVER said that there are NO SUCH details anywhere"? If also quibbling I think you meant "that korg NEVER said that there are SUCH details "?

Redefining an arranger keyboard of Korg I think what means redefining?
For me - in german advertising brochure - redefining an arranger keyboard of US-brochure is translated with
"Das Pa5X ist das neue Flaggschiff der KORG Professional Arranger-Serie mit unzähligen Neuerungen."
"Unzählige Neuerungen" is to re-translate with "countless innovations" and that is to expect from the announced new and damn expensive flagship from Korg, without having to search for individual hidden terms in numerous different performance and user manuals.
Because even then I don't think I can find a Kaoss function or a style creator Bot - to name just two that I could use in the predecessor.

Or should we think that countless innovations be contrast are features that can be omitted without replacement, also securing Korg with the phrase" subject to change without notice ... "?

It is expected more then only basic features works perfectly - that also do € 750 arrangers.
It is ok that this flagship is equipped with a powerful SoC (system-on-chip) and has a very good sound.
But as long as it does not work satisfactorily or the programming of features has not yet been completed, for a reputable business it is a test device.

musiccankill wrote: ... It is not korg (or any company) who should be blamed for that. It is the buyer that didn't take the time to read the specs and the manual to take an educated decision.

No, only Korg is solely responsible for the disaster of a hasty presentation. A premature buyer also can trust and expect bugs and inadequacies to be eliminated satisfactorily within a short time. The reversal - that the customer is responsible for the inadequacies of the supplier - is a provocative meanness.

As long as Korg no finish specification with the possibility of being able to check detailed information from the PA5X, it is to be regarded as a unfinished product with not even completed product development - and it is a difficult break in trust to release such a product for sale remaining unfinished within reasonable time.

Well, JUST TRY to play 2 Styles in the same time, Than ad 4 Userpads or Any pad , and now chose one piano sound, play it, 160 voices is not enough it,s cutting the piano release.

so what was the point then?. why not use 256 voice, like MEDELI AKX does? 2023 now

Asena wrote:Well, JUST TRY to play 2 Styles in the same time, Than ad 4 Userpads or Any pad , and now chose one piano sound, play it, 160 voices is not enough it,s cutting the piano release.

so what was the point then?. why not use 256 voice, like MEDELI AKX does? 2023 now

Yes I have to agree here regarding polyphony, this is something i have raised already on this forum and with Korg...

I am also well aware of note robbing and drop-outs all over the place on this keyboard, I hope Korg sort this out, but unfortunately we have no way of knowing if they intend to address this issue....

I was very surprised we did not see 256 notes of polyphony when they announced PA5X, 160 notes of polyphony is not sufficient...

Generally when manufacturers increase polyphony they double from previous outgoing model's, this really should not be difficult with modern processing power...

Sam CA wrote:

musiccankill wrote:[Here is the problem!
You (the buyer) BELIEVED it would have EVERYTHING that was in the pa4x , korg never said that and there are no such details anywhere (product page, manual , etc)..It is not korg (or any company) who should be blamed for that. It is the buyer that didn't take the time to read the specs and the manual to take an educated decision.
Even though that is the case, they did say ,after people requested them , that they are going to add them , although again they don't have to.

I disagree with this. You totally missed the context here. If the Pa5x just dropped from the sky as a totally new model that had nothing to do with the Pa1x-Pa4x, then yes. They've been doing that with their workstations forever! Almost every model has a totally different name and drastically different from the previous models. I've owned many of them in the past and that's been the case. When a new model comes out, people are prepared for anything. I mean Anything!!!

That's NEVER been the case with the arranger series. Just look at the product naming convention. Triton, Oasys, Kronos vs, Pa1x, ... Pa5x!!! There's a history behind all this. I've owned the Pa800, Pa3x and Pa4x. They were practically the same but improved version of each other. Any reasonable person would assume that would be the case with the Pa5x and beyond....unless the company communicates that. After all most of their customers come from older models, and Korg had established a business model with them for the longest time.

I could understand if they used a different naming scheme, or at least communicated certain info with people who paid top $ for their product. None of that happened.

Totally agree Sam, if they weren’t going to give us the functions the prior model pa?x ‘s had, they shouldn’t have called it a PA5x. Why wouldn’t one believe it’s the continuation of a line of keyboards and would have the same old functions plus some new ones. Has been the case over many years and models.

Had they given it a totally different name like Yamaha did with their last top of the line keyboard, the Genos ( prior series was called Tyros ) potential buyers might have looked a bit more closely before jumping in and buying.

The fact that it is called a PA5X, makes me think that they will most likely include functions that the prior models had in future updates. They’re most likely not game to give definite dates for these updates, just in case it takes longer than anticipated, and owners will be annoyed more than ever if they don’t meet deadlines. And we have every right to be.

Who would ever trust Korg again if they don’t get this keyboard up and functioning correctly.

Guys i m not defending KORG or any company , i have nothing to win.
It was just OUR decision to buy it , they did not push us, they did not provide anything more or anything less than advertised (except for the ram which they fixed in the first update which is a trust issue for me too but not enough to break the deal as they always do fix their products in the end and always surpass the expectations ,especially in the higher end models like the pa5x).
Yes the manual wasn't available at first and it is still incomplete (at least it was before 1.1 os so maybe it is complete now , haven't checked) but still they did not say it will have more that what it has function wise (less ram is not function , it is memory. Functions are the controls that are not there like previous models etc) and the buyer could either wait for the manual or input from other users if not sure or go to a dealer and test it out if he/she is close to one.
Assuming a new model will have everything the previous models had and more is not a fault from any company , including korg .It is the fault of the buyer both from personal and legal points of view.
If they hadn't fixed the ram issue and they don't fix the most serious bugs after the announced timeframe then a buyer could go after them legally and most likely win the case as it really has bugs (not missing but advertised features).
Now about availability , you can just look what is going on on the planet. It is far from the only company that has production issues. Entire car industries have shut down temporarily cause of chip shortage and that happens to every production plant no matter the product they create as long as it needs electronics and metals (both are available at extremely limited quantities worldwide).
For example i had to design and build a machine for a company and i got quoted 76 weeks delivery time for the needed processor which of course killed the project...
This will be my last "trying to help by explaining what is going on from a not angry point of view" reply and i ll reply only to people that I can really help.

Hope everything works out well for you and your keyboards.