Omnisphere anyone? Compared to Oasys?

[danatkorg]

Has anyone at Korg (or anywhere else) ever done a full on acoustic demo of the MOD-7?

As Daz points out, there are various mp3 demos on www.korg.com. You can also try out the sounds yourself, using the demo version of MOD-7 built into OS versions 1.3 and later.

is there a list of features and capabilties that are written down in one place? There is no manual posted on Korguser.net under the Oasys.

Also as Daz points out, the manuals are available on korguser.net. They're also available directly on the OASYS, in the built-in Help system.

The main features of each EXi are outlined in the Overview sections, at the tops of their respective chapters.

The MOD-7 chapter includes "Synthesis with the MOD-7: a guided tour," with easy, step-by-step, hands-on instructions for creating and modifying sounds using all of the major features. The 9 pages are broken down into easily-digested chunks:

* Individual oscillators and subtractive synthesis
Layering six saw oscillators
Hands-on control with Tone Adjust

* VPM (aka FM)
Basic VPM
Feedback
Phase
Detuning
Envelopes and VPM
Modulating Ratio

* Filtered VPM
Filtering the VPM output
Filtering VPM modulators

* PCM as a VPM modulator
Single Multisample as VPM modulator
Velocity-switched Multisamples

* Waveshaping
Creating different waveforms
Using Offset
Creating evolving timbres
Waveshaping and VPM
Waveshaping and PCM
Waveshaping and filtered PCM
Waveshaping, PCM, and VPM

* Ring Modulation
Subtle motion
Attack transient
Extreme sweep

You can use these tutorials with either the demo or purchased versions of the MOD-7.

There are many other useful details and tips throughout the 50-page MOD-7 chapter, along with occasional humor. The descriptions of the individual wavetables include extensive notes and suggested applications; there's a page or so dedicated to a basic description of ring modulation (pp 363-364, under "5–4e: Ring Modulator"); many parameters include detailed usage notes; and there are a number of "Tip" sections scattered throughout.

I'm quite pleased with the MOD-7 doc in general; it may be my favorite of all the synth manuals I've written.

Same for the MS-20. I realize there is a manual for the MS-20 but I haven't cracked the cover yet.

There's a lot of good info in the MS-20EX manual, and I had fun writing it. I'd recommend giving it a whirl.

Is it possible to use the ring modulation in the MOD-7 with other sample based sounds HD-1 or samples that are imported?

The MOD-7 includes the HD-1's low-aliasing PCM oscillator, which can play any mono ROM, EXs, or RAM multisamples. You can layer these multisamples with synthesized elements, use them as VPM modulators, process them through multiple stages of ring modulation and/or waveshaping, or any combination of the above. You can do the same with live audio input, as well.

Best regards,

Dan

[danatkorg]

Great tips, Daz!

- Dan

[kenackr]

One more question for anyone,

In one of Kevin's posts above he mentioned a "liquid effect" that was available in the Yamaha EX5. That is something I've been trying to create without success on the O.

Does anyone have a clue on how to do that or at at least get started on it with the Oasys?

Thanks for any help,

Ken

[danatkorg]

In one of Kevin's posts above he mentioned a "liquid effect" that was available in the Yamaha EX5. That is something I've been trying to create without success on the O.

Does anyone have a clue on how to do that or at at least get started on it with the Oasys?

I'm guessing that Kevin is referring to the EX5's "Water" FDSP algorithm. Here's the overview from the EX5 manual (p. 128):



Bonus points to the person who knows which OASYS EXi is a good match for this.

- Dan

[Daz]

STR-1 would be my guess. That's a "note dependent delay" and "resonating string" for sure

I have got to try this later, sounds like a fun idea. Thanks for tracking down that info.

[kenackr]

Ok,

I'll bite, how about AL-1?

Ken

[danatkorg]

Daz gets the prize.

Some of the other "FDSP" functions are also similar to STR-1 capabilities. Try modulating the two pickup positions for per-voice chorus effects, for instance. It's no surprise that one of the other FDSP functions is simply a guitar pickup (with a "Hum Backer" option ).

[Daz]

The challenge now is work out how to do it

In that diagram a source signal goes through a BPF modulated with an S&H LFO which then feeds into something that is essentially a comb filter that follows pitch (like the String in STR-1). That BPF output is also routed to the output via an LPF/HPF and mixed with the string output. Something like that

So you could create a Program that uses two EXi instances. They can both be STR-1, or one STR-1 and one MOD-7. (I couldn't work out how to do it with only one STR-1 fully.) I'll describe my first guess at achieving this using two STR-1 instances and using the PCM oscillator in STR-1 as my source signal.

First I'd set both STR-1 PCM oscillators to use the same multisample.

In the first STR-1 go to the Mixer page and set the String level to 0 and the PCM Osc level to max. The PCM osc is now going straight into the filter. Set the Filter to BPF and modulate that using an LFO set to be one of the S&H shapes.

In the second STR-1 set the PCM osc to be the only active input into the Excitation Mixer (set all other inputs levels to 0) and set the Excitation filter to BPF. Set the AMS for the Excitation Filter to be an LFO using an S&H shape.

Topologically that kinda matches that algo.

.... er, how do you get the dry PCM output with that arrangment

Replace the first STR-1 with a MOD-7 ! Wire it's PCM osc output to a BPF filter modulated with an S&H LFO, and ALSO wire the PCM osc output straight to one of the MOD-7 output ports. MOD-7's routing capabilities will let you do that kind of parallel routing ... very cool.

Ideally the BPF and it's associated S&H LFO should be setup in the same way in both EXi instances to emulate the fact that in the real FDSP algo the output of the first BPF is the same signal routed to both the comb filter and directly to the output via an HPF/LPF.

In fact with MOD-7 you can get even closer by routing the output of the BPF into the second filter that is available in there, to emulate the filter that processes the signal coming out of the BPF.

Just my first thoughts, brainstorming if you like. Look forward to trying this later and of course hearing anyone else thoughts about how you would go about doing that.

Daz.

[Daz]

(I couldn't work out how to do it with only one STR-1 fully.)

Just to qualify that some ...

In STR-1 you can use the Excitation Filter as the BPF in this algo and that goes into the String, but you can't then route the output of the BPF straight to the Filter or AMP in parallel to give you the mix of the raw BPF output and the output of the BPF passed through the String. Or can you ?

Daz.

[danatkorg]

I think you can do this all with a single STR-1. Here's a version of the Water algorithm, with the blocks re-arranged for easier viewing (I think the person who did the Yamaha docs was trying to fit the graphic into the small column size):



And, here's how it would map onto the STR-1, if I'm understanding correctly:



I've left out the EG associated with the highpass filter; it's not clear to me from the docs whether that controls cutoff, or output level. We could do either with the STR-1.

- Dan

[Daz]

Ooh interesting, thanks Dan

Looking at your second pic, what you end up with here is two effects happening in parallel :

1) The output of the PCM oscillator goes through a BPF (Filter1) whose cutoff frequency is modulated with an S&H LFO (smoothed via an AMS Mixer set to Smoothing)

2) The output of the PCM oscillator goes through the excitation filter (set to BPF and modulated using the same AMS Mixer mentioned above) and then is used to excite the string and then using the balance mixer parameter routed to Filter 2, set to HPF.

In their diagram there is a third path which is the original signal (our PCM osc) being mixed with 1 & 2. I found I could do that using the MultiFilter and crossfading between BPF on part 1 and Dry on part 2.

What I missed out on is the thing that you use here, which is using the Balance parameter to route the outputs to the different filters.

Daz.

[Daz]

Ooh interesting, thanks Dan

Looking at your second pic, what you end up with here is two effects happening in parallel :

1) The output of the PCM oscillator goes through a BPF (Filter1) whose cutoff frequency is modulated with an S&H LFO (smoothed via an AMS Mixer set to Smoothing)

2) The output of the PCM oscillator goes through the excitation filter (set to BPF and modulated using the same AMS Mixer mentioned above) and then is used to excite the string and then using the balance mixer parameter routed to Filter 2, set to HPF.

In their diagram there is a third path which is the original signal (our PCM osc) being mixed with 1 & 2. I found I could do that using the MultiFilter and crossfading between BPF on part 1 and Dry on part 2.

What I missed out on is the thing that you use here, which is using the Balance parameter to route the outputs to the different filters.

Daz.

I've created a template Program following Dan's advice and added that third path using the MultiFilter BPF<->Dry crossfade that I described above.

http://www.korgforums.com/misc/water.zip

Look for the first Program in User-F called Liquidity DR. Should give you something to play with.

[Daz]

Things to look at in that Program :

1) LFO4 is the S&H LFO and is fed into AMS Mixer 1. AMS Mixer 1 is used to modulate the Excitation Filter and also Filter 1 (both BPFs)

2) On the Mixer page note that the String's balance is 99 so it routed to Filter2 (an HPF) and the PCM oscillators balance is 0 so it is routed to Filter 1 (BPF)

3) Filter1 is set to MultiFilter. The two modes are BPF and 'Manual 2' with only Dry activated. Use the Crossfade to mix in the unfiltered PCM oscillator output.

[Daz]

1) The output of the PCM oscillator goes through a BPF (Filter1) whose cutoff frequency is modulated with an S&H LFO (smoothed via an AMS Mixer set to Smoothing)

Is that really supposed to be part of the FDSP algo ? Or did I make that bit up

Am I misunderstanding this and seeing those 2 parallel signal paths (through the BPF then out AND through the BPF and into String) where there should only be one (through the BPF and into the String and then out).

That would be a shame because the sound of the PCM going through the modulated BPF mixed with the string is something I really like the sound of

Daz.

[Daz]

Looking at Dan's schematic again, my Program really isn't what he's suggesting. I made up my own thing there, by misunderstanding the original schematic.

To make my Program truer to the algo you would need to bypass Filter A and zero out any dispersion or non-linearity I added to the string which were more artistic license

The only BPF then is the one in the Excitation mixer, which doesn't have resonance and I thought that was essential part of getting the watery effect. My wrong implementation does have a nice sort of watery effect.

I've never heard the original FDSP algo in action so I am not sure what this should sound like exactly, and I am definitely unclear on how to get the string to sound watery and not stringy Modulating the Excitation Filter with the smoothed S&H LFO didn't give me something that screamed watery.

What am I missing Dan ?

Daz.

p.s. thanks for your the time on this, I am getting a lot out of this.