Creating a new multi-layer Steinway Piano for Pa2x/Pa800

[umanid]

Hi Rob, Sharp & Nedim,

I would like to begin with the submission of my appreciation to you guyz for putting in such an effort, coordination and time to work on such a project. Its people like you who make this world a much better place, especially in this era. I thank you guyz on behalf of all the forum members and wish you the best of luck.

Rob, I do understand what it takes to work on such a project and bringing down the file size to atleast 50 MB, but can u figure out is there any way at all to reduce this file size further? You see, with this 50 MB set, as one of you said earlier, that would be all what we'll have on a Pa800 with not much more I have always wanted a Steinway piano on my Pa800 & now I can hopefully see it materialize, thanks to you. I just love the Steinway and could die for it.

Waiting anxiously and patiently for this sound

Warm wishes & best of luck guyz,

Umair

[Rob Sherratt]

I just paid $100 for a licensed copy of Awave Studio which Nedim recommended. It can apparently generate full multisamples in Korg format so I will try that. I hope this is not another blind alley!!

Best regards,
Rob

[Sharp]

Hi Rob.

Thanks for helping. Your sample loaded, thank you. The editor I have been using is WavePad, downloadable for free here:

http://www.nch.com.au/wavepad/index.html

Very nice program. I see it even supports the “Level” function that they call Automatic Gain. Sadly though it doesn't have many options for saving files. KORG keyboards are very fussy when it comes to files.

I tried to put these on your file download site for you to see but guess what, .aif files are an unsupported format

Anything you need to upload just put it in a Zip file and you will be good to go. It's not practical to upload any uncompressed format anyway as it will just eat disk space for no reason and use up a lot of bandwidth.

Which sample editor software do you use?

Ho no.... lol.... Well I don't use Awave Studio

Look, I know you just bought this and thankfully I can say that it will work and it will do what you need it to do. All in all a fantastic and very powerful program that will solve all your problems except one

It still leaves you with a lot of very tedious work that can be fully automated.

Regards.
Sharp.

[Lee]

Sharp,
I am thinking of buying a sample editing program...I have Chicken Systems Translator, and I'm looking at Awave...
Which one do you use/recommend?

Thanks,
Lee

[Sharp]

Sharp,
I am thinking of buying a sample editing program...I have Chicken Systems Translator, and I'm looking at Awave...
Which one do you use/recommend?

Thanks,
Lee

Hi Lee.
I've put together a video demo showing what I use and why.

http://www.irishacts.com/tutorials/extr ... verter.htm

Regards.
Sharp.

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Sharp,

Very nice demo, thanks a lot. Extreme Sample Converter seems to be a bargain at 80 Euros. Maybe I should have been a bit more patient

Anyway I'm once again making progress, with combination of WavePad and Awave Studio, just have to redo everything with automatic AGC like you said.

Best regards,
Rob

[Lee]

Sharp,
Very nicely done..thanks very much...
So, for import to PA we would select Aiff as the output?

If we start with very good sample quality...we should also get very good new sounds (sample quality)??

If a sample is at the correct sample rate...why does the program have to re-sample the sound? Would it not be beter to not convert the samples, but use them in their native format?

Thanks,
Lee

[Sharp]

So, for import to PA we would select Aiff as the output?

If your Chicken$y$ software actually works, you can use that to convert Extreme Sample Converter data to KORG format.

If we start with very good sample quality...we should also get very good new sounds (sample quality)??

There really no loss of quality along the way, so if you get good at looping samples then you should get some amazing results.

If a sample is at the correct sample rate...why does the program have to re-sample the sound?

I'm not sure what you mean. I didn't talk of resampling.

Would it not be beter to not convert the samples, but use them in their native format?

Rate converting introduces a loss in quality, changing from one uncompressed format to another does not. The information is the same and it's digital. All your doing is technically formatting the data in information form.

Regards.
Sharp.

[Lee]

Sharp,
Thanks for the answers...hey your up late???

I now have to find out how to know what sample rates the Kurzweil samples I have are at...any idea how to know?
Translator PRO does not tell me the sample rate of what I am converting.
Based on your answers...I do not want to loose quality by changing sample rates.

After your demo...I am more than likely getting the Extreme Sample Converter (you should get a commission

Lee

[mrkorg]

Awave studio has to be one of the best software available. For all who have purchased it or are intending on buying it, you won't regret it. Just make sure you familiarize yourself with the software by downlonloading the 30 day trial version.

[Rob Sherratt]

Stage one of building the new Steinway piano is now complete, and I have a working set of 29 FF samples running on my Pa2x, and a new piano sound called "SteinwayFF RX".

The progress is due mainly to advice from Sharp and Nedim, plus Awave Studio which quickly constructed the complete multisample in Korg Triton format, and the Pa2x imported it no problem. So I had little editing to do on the Pa2x itself. I am still using WavePad to process the raw samples one at a time, because it has some better audio processsing algorithms than Awave Studio. Every Steinway sample needs slightly different processing to get it right, I cannot apply a single set of automated parameters to the whole lot like on Sharp's very slick video!!

I cannot for the life of me get the ADSR envelope shapers to work on the Pa2x/Pa800. The problem is that there is a single ADSR envelope which you are supposed to apply to a complete multisample. Well, how the hell can that work when a C0 note has a length of 15 seconds, and a C8 note has a length of less than a second? It's no use at all.

So I have had to go back to source samples, unlooped, and without levelling, and I am shaping the tails using Wavepad so the volume tapers off to silence giving me a sensible sample size.

I recorded an MP3 while practicing and listening to the new Steinway FF samples. If anyone else wants to listen to it, then send me an email and I'll send you the .ZIP file containing the MP3 recording. You can review the sounds and feedback on this thrread if you like.

The remaining work is as follows:

Fine tune some of the samples that were out of tune.
Construct a 29 sample Steinway MF multisample
Construct a 29 sample Steinway PP multisample
Import those two multisamples to the Pa2x
Construct velocity layer mapping
Play around with EFX

There is still a bug on the Pa2x OS2.01 where it will not import .AIF sample files correctly. I sent one of the files to a friend in Korg in the hope it might get resolved in future. Anyway, for now I have a workaround by using Awave Studio to construct the multisamples in Korg format.

Best regards,
Rob

[macboy]

Hi Rob !

I would like to express my gratitude to you and your work. I think you are one of the best making this for yourself and after that sharing it with the rest. I know that you are also doing this as a learn curve: you know if you can beat this one, you can do it all

The sampling possibilities offer a new world to any one starting to experimenting with this. I really like your efforts and explaining.

Also my thanks for Sharp and others offering side help. Especially Sharp for the very clear Quicktime video !! I think your tutorial is great and would work for a lot more problems of users: which program did you use to record your audio and to capture the screen ? I think this is the best solution for the wikipedia ! It works brilliant. Thanks.

Great work you all !!!!!!!!

I am just missing the expertise opinion of Nikola on this one And what does Assyrianpianist think of this ? I think they haven't seen this thread both of them.

[nikola81]

Hi Rob !

I would like to express my gratitude to you and your work. I think you are one of the best making this for yourself and after that sharing it with the rest. I know that you are also doing this as a learn curve: you know if you can beat this one, you can do it all

The sampling possibilities offer a new world to any one starting to experimenting with this. I really like your efforts and explaining.

Also my thanks for Sharp and others offering side help. Especially Sharp for the very clear Quicktime video !! I think your tutorial is great and would work for a lot more problems of users: which program did you use to record your audio and to capture the screen ? I think this is the best solution for the wikipedia ! It works brilliant. Thanks.

Great work you all !!!!!!!!

I am just missing the expertise opinion of Nikola on this one And what does Assyrianpianist think of this ? I think they haven't seen this thread both of them.

I'm here, i just don't have anything to add, i consider myself to be a beginner with these things too. I do have ideas but for now i lack time to play more with them. I'm glad that there is place like this where i can see some of those ideas to come to life and help others to bring their ideas to life.

[Sharp]

which program did you use to record your audio and to capture the screen ?

http://www.instant-demo.com
It's expensive but it does exactly everything they say it does flawlessly.

Pretty simple to use too.

Regards.
Sharp.

[mrkorg]

Rob,

So you have your PA2X back, how is it?