polyphony in M3's combination

[m3newbie]

Thanks for the suggestions but hopefully there will be an software update of some sort that will simply have the feature to turn a track on/off instead of mute and unmute while keeping sounds currently being played or sustained on.

For myself speaking, I could probably do away with the whole mute/unmute and go with on/off. Is there a reason when an mute track should stay on?

I haven't tried it yet but I may have to use something like a Roland XP30 as a controller because the Part (track) buttons on the Roland XP30 could turn a timbre on/off.

Last note, I'd like to keep my pads to trigger other stuff. Can't the 1-8 MIX PLAY/MUTE buttons be used to turn a timbre ON/OFF in future updates. Or hopefully an update on the GUI that has access to this feature.

Other suggested alternatives are great but they're limiting other features of the M3 as a halfway solution to this setback.

[jerrythek]

For myself speaking, I could probably do away with the whole mute/unmute and go with on/off. Is there a reason when an mute track should stay on?

The main reason is that while holding down sustained notes, when you unmute the part it will come back on. If you turn the Part off then when you turn it back on you have to retrigger notes before it will start sounding again.

I understand that there are reasons/applications for both methods - I do get that.

Regards,

Jerry

[larf2k]

thank you so much for the ideas, i'm primarily a live player and this was a deal breaker for me. i was waaaaaaaaaay excited about the 16 timbres per combi/song and i was really disappointed that i found myself running into poly problems right out of the box....

the karma idea works for some stuff for me, the sysex would work for almost any situation EXCEPT.....

i hate how the RPPR swallows an octave +how ever many patterns worth of keys at the bottom. Is there a way to hide the triggers in another midi channel and trigger them through the pads or off another board? i just want to preserve all the m3 keys i can

[Stefanus Wayanartha]

Hi, i found and modified a combi named: Piano&String which use KARMA to turn on and off the string by pressing KARMA on/off button. This kind of midi on/off is what i looking for in M3.. turning midi off without cut the sound and of course it give you more polyphony to use

I think this method can modified into 4 state midi on/off using 4 karma modules. but i still try it first...

please try it and give it a comment:
http://www.aurallion.com/wp-content/upl ... g.m31combi

[larf2k]

The sysex message required looks like this :

F0 42 30 75 41 04 00 23
00 03 00 00 00 00 01 F7

The last digit on the first row (23) is used to determine the track whose Status will be changed (23=track 1, 24=track2, 25=track3 etc.) and the second to last digit in the second row is the Status value (0=Off, 1=INT)

I've left my template sysex message in Track 1, so you can easily edit it to give you the function you need and then pull the message into a pattern using the Get From Track page menu option. That is how I created the 8 different patterns/messages myself.

Enjoy,

Daz.

so...... how did you know this?! how can i figure out different sysex messages that are unknown and not listed in the "create exclusive event" menu in the track edit?

is there a reference for this? there are a few things i wish i could do that are not in the track edit/create exclusive event section, although it is very robust. let's say i want to change the key zone of a track with sysex, for example.

thanks in advance, daz, the original post has been very useful.

[Daz]

You're welcome. The document you want is the MIDI System Exclusive spec, and you can snag it from this download page :

http://korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=280

[larf2k]

woa...

woa. lot of information. this is going to take me a while to wrap my head around, but thanks. any pointers to get me started? or is that two big of a subject to get into. i'm semi savvy with these sorts of things...

[Daz]

let's say i want to change the key zone of a track with sysex

If I want to do something like that and it is not already supported by the M3's own native way of composing sysex automation messages, I would just power up the MIDI monitor on my Mac and change the parameter on the M3 and see what sysex appears in the monitor. Korg's sysex stuff is generally symmetrical and the message M3 generates when you change a parameter on the screen is the same message you would send to the M3 to make the change using a sequencer.

I use the Mac based MIDI Monitor from here : www.snoize.com , but if you're using Windows you should take a look at www.midiox.com

Daz.

[jerrythek]

OK, the article's up:

http://www.korg.com/ClassDetail.aspx?ID=111

The E-Newsletter mails later this week. Enjoy - I'd like to hear some feedback on the ideas.

Regards,

Jerry

I haven't forgotten about this, and I just finished the article and examples. Look for the next edition of our Proview Extra E-newsletter that'll have the article. It'll come with a linked .SNG file of the examples, and a bunch of cool tips and tricks.

Soon...

Regards,

Jerry

Another way I am experimenting with this is to make a Song with only 1 active track, and a variety of effects set up. By sending a Program Change along with a different Bus routing message (Sys. Ex.) to that Track I can change a sound and have it run through different effects to get really quick and smooth sound changes.

Add to that some tasteful use of Tone Adjust and i can get some varied and quick sound changes triggered from the pads (trigerring RPPR control messages) which I am finding a very fast way to change sounds with NO interruption.

I'm almost done and ready to share...

regards,

Jerry

[Rob Sherratt]

Hi Jerry,

I found your article very useful and instructive - keep 'em coming. The M3 is extremely powerful in its SysEx and other programming capabilities. I'll make an arranger hybrid out of it one day Is there any possibility that Karma 2.5 can be incorporated within the M3 in a future release even if it's a chargeable upgrade?

I noticed a minor error here:

This will produce a gradual change in the Direct Mix over seven bars, from 00 to 50

It would save confusion to write: "This will produce a gradual change from 00 to 50 in the Direct Mix over the seven measures (bars) from measure 11 to measure 18"

PS The E-Newsletter registration form constrains entry of phone numbers to USA format only. It is impossible to enter an international number which can be up to 12 digits preceded by +. But then, you didn't want non-USA phone numbers anyway did you?

PPS Are there any available back issues of the E-Newsletter relating to M3 hints and tips like these? Would any kind soul forward them to me?

rob dot sherratt at gmail dot com

Best regards,
Rob

[Daz]

Thanks Jerry !

[jerrythek]

Hi Rob:

Thanks for the comments, the questions, the rewrite, and more...



I never comment on "what if for the future" questions, sorry.

All the articles can be found here:

http://www.korg.com/LearningCenter.aspx

Best regards,

Jerry

[rtucker55]

Hi Jerry,

Great article! I found it last evening on the Korg site and downloaded the file. Much to my pleasure there was also an included .pdf file which gave me a chance to enlarge things to where my old eyes could view it.

I had the chance to very briefly play with the .sng file today and was very impressed, I need to get my head around this stuff as it is magic!

Just a few quick questions:
On song 000 RPPR/Pads Select - There does seem to be a short period of time between when the pad is pressed and the program changes. Is this just the nature-of-the-beast due to the time required to pass the sysex? Would this time lag be linear as in the more sysex included in the pattern the longer the propagation delay?

I also noticed that when the RPPR is assigned to C#2 it leaves you short of keys, is there anyway of assigning to a lower key that does not physically exist on my Oasys 76 keyboard? (Using it to trigger the M3-M)

Lastly, there was another song that loaded into 008 that was a drum kit. It didn't really seem to do anything but I thought I would ask in case I was missing something.

Thanks again for the great article and demo file.

Best regards,
Rick

[jerrythek]

Hi Jerry,

Great article! I found it last evening on the Korg site and downloaded the file. Much to my pleasure there was also an included .pdf file which gave me a chance to enlarge things to where my old eyes could view it.

Yup - that was my though - you want to be able to print it out and work with it by the keyboard.

Not the old, tired eyes, part though! Online you could change your browser resolution to make it bigger if needed...

Just a few quick questions:
On song 000 RPPR/Pads Select - There does seem to be a short period of time between when the pad is pressed and the program changes. Is this just the nature-of-the-beast due to the time required to pass the sysex? Would this time lag be linear as in the more sysex included in the pattern the longer the propagation delay?

Yes, I believe so, but the difference is likely to be imperceptible, unless you have a LOT of messages.

I also noticed that when the RPPR is assigned to C#2 it leaves you short of keys, is there anyway of assigning to a lower key that does not physically exist on my Oasys 76 keyboard? (Using it to trigger the M3-M)

Actually, I originally did one other thing for this file that I deleted because I felt I was getting too complex in all the concepts I was throwing at you.

If in Global Mode you change the transposition of your keyboard to +12 then you can push down the fixed assignment of the RPPR mapping so it moves off the active key range. This works well for a 61, OK for a 76/73, and isn't really needed for the 88.

Then you have to adjust the Transposition of each Track in your Song and adjust the notes you set the Pads to trigger. See the concept?

Lastly, there was another song that loaded into 008 that was a drum kit. It didn't really seem to do anything but I thought I would ask in case I was missing something.

Whoops - no meaning, just a "left-over"! no harm - go make a beat or something...



Glad you enjoyed it - lot's of interesting ideas to work with.

Regards,

Jerry

[ktippets]

Jerry - thanks for the excellent article (and accompanying PDF and SNG files!) on using system exclusive messages on the Xpanded M3. I purchased my M3M about 3 months ago, but have been 'watching' it since it came out. It is really cool to be a part of the end-user side of Korg's ongoing support and development of this amazing instrument.

When you consider the Dmod combined with the SysEx capabilities - there is soooooo much that can be controlled on the M3. I personally appreciate the depth of the programmability in Korg instruments as opposed to an instrument that has predetermined, dedicated functions but the user can't tailor it to his/her specific applications.

I have been investigating your demo song RPPR KARMA gating. Thanks for the challenge - this is a good one. I think I recreated it as follows:

I picked a pad with a gated Karma module and pressed enter/record to set it up as a sequence. Then I recorded one measure, playing a chord with Karma on. Next, I deleted all of the note data from that one recorded measure, which only left me with a sysex message (Bulk/Ext) and CC messages. When I copied this one measure over to an RPPR it recreated the same KARMA effect.

Am I on the right track?