If Korg .....

[Sharp]

Hi Kevin.

This is ridiculous and your being equally ridiculous here standing on your soap box convinced that your all righteous here and we are all wrong for expressing our opinions.

The mere fact that your allowed to stand up on your soap box and directly insult me is because I let you do that because this is how we (Daz and myself) run the forum and we respect that everyone should have a voice, the freedom and the opportunity to say want they want as well as get all the benefits from the community we provide freely. It's a complex package, but we have the perfect balance right now and it took us years to get to where we are.

There is no venom here in peoples posts and for you to suggest it is ridiculous. All Trolls are dealt with on this forum who have an agenda that is damaging to this community and KORG.

The forum is run and moderated with passion and respect for KORG at all times.

Look you have said your bit and I've said mine. Ultimately though what happens here is my decision and I'm very happy with how well the forum runs, and the content posted. KORG equally respects our efforts and the quality of the forum we provide. If they didn't, they know they could contact us instantly and as friends express any concerns they have.

I don't believe for one second that the picture you paint reflects what's going on here at all.

Regards
Sharp.

[Charlie]

Kevin, I've voted "No" because I'm happy with Oasys 1 (see my comment above). If you read other "No" explanations here you'll find some more explaining that they wouldn't buy an Oasys 2 because they are quite happy with their current Oasys. I believe if someone is not happy with it he would sell it ASAP ... and not post here much longer.

But I think I understand your unhappiness with comments criticizing Oasys 1. People tend to take what they have for granted and overlook it, whereas the shortcomings are highlighted. That's true for products, relationships, nations etc. However, I think Korg is smart enough to know that. A good R+D-Team would take a step back and relate all critics and and improvements asked for to their company goals, values, target market and their position in it, given ressources etc. It wont be guided by the moods of singular people posting opinions here - be they positive or negative. Yes, they read, value and judge them - but I doubt major product-decisions are based on forum-posts.

BTW it's a fact that the major part of all real innovations was not based on customer wishes and surveys. Radical new ideas usually come from creative people/teams and NOT from current customers. Synthesizers are a good example for this fact: this industry is full with creative new innovations no customer ever asked before.

[Mike Conway]

I've voted "No" because I'm happy with Oasys 1

That's roughly how I feel, except for the "once bitten, twice shy" part. I never felt that way and I think that's the hardware dinosaur in me. Of course, I would be shocked if an O Mark 2 was actually released.


Regarding the debate, above:

From my perspective, I bought the machine when it was very basic. It didn't have the MOD-7 (a dream come true), Polysix, MS-20 or String modeller. I'm a little ruffled about no EXfs, but got most of what I wanted. I can see how someone buying an OASYS the year production ended would be plenty miffed!

I call the O the "Paradox Workstation." Every weak area is complimented with a huge strength. (Again, only comparing to dedicated hardware and not computers with keys.) Yeah, the sampler is standard in a lot of ways, yet it can sample 80 minutes at a time, can open Song audio tracks, load more samples faster than any other Big 3 product, etc.

Same with the "dreaded" sequencer. It lacks some basic shortcuts (Cue list, Velocity, Gate percentage adjust - kind of a pain, but Tone Adjust can cover some of those things), but it excels in other areas, like recording 20 tracks in one pass, has the ultimate bus system for routing dry/wet/processed multi-signal paths, and can mix the final song to your USB stick for easy access to computer projects. I'm doing some work with Sonar 7 and it's got so many bells and whistles (even Variphrase), but for me it's kind of a chore, by comparison. Someday, I may get used to it, which means I'll go blind that much faster.

A lot of us have had enough time with it to say, "It is what it is."

[mdh]

This poll is inflammatory and the minimum 2 answers complete with totally biased reasoning indicates to me this was not a serious, well considered poll question but a troll. I refuse to participate and hope Sharp or Daz locks it.

[Sharp]

If anyone is interested in doing something other than pointing the finger and people, then take a look at this thread. I've a problem that needs verification before I bring it to KORG UK's attention.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=49420

Regards
Sharp.

[MartinHines]

I'm firmly of the conviction that, as harsh as it sounds, the level of griping over OASYS in the past year or so is unfounded.

While there has been some excessive griping about the discontinuation of the OASYS, there are some basic criticisms that are well deserved:

1) Lack of EXfs -- there were listed in all of the marketing materials regarding the OASYS. A company cretes their own problems when they formally promise something, then don't deliver.

I am well aware of the financial situation/bad economy that helped bring about an early retirement of the OASYS, but Korg's promise is still being left out there.

2) Open Platform -- I understood early on what Korg really meant by this verbiage, but this was too heavily touted in marketing material without clearly explaining its restrictions. For better or worse, the majority of the marketplace thought this would be (a) an ability to run other software on the OASYS or (b) an open platform that would allow other companies to create OASYS instruments.

Even people who realized this only meant Korg developed products were most likely disappointed with the slow release of new EXis and EXs, given Korg touted the software aspect of the OASYS.


I think the OASYS was great, but there is definitely a certain level of criticism Korg has earned.

[jerrythek]

I really don't want to get bogged down into this dialog, but I want to suport what Sharp has posted about our relationship.

We don't own, or manage these forums. We seriously respect and value the fact that Sharp and Daz have created this world for our customers, and for us to hear from and have dialog with them. That is why at times when the concept of hosting/running our own forums have come up, we as a company have looked at the sweat equity, true independence and long-standing value of this community and chosen not to "compete" with such a wonderful place.

We have to accept all the posts and opinions when we want to hear from and understand our customers. That may not be easy, but it's part of running a company in the 21st century.

Now, do I personally agree with the methods, wording, and feelings of every post or poster? Of course not, but as long as the dialog is civil, and presented without ulterior motives (trolls and the sort) then it has to be allowed.

I think Sharp and Daz have their heads on straight in managing these things, and guide the forums in a truly professional manner.

I'll stop here - and I choose not to weight in directly on the other points/opinions made here. It's all good, as they say.

Regards,

Jerry

[UCanDream]

It's curious that Dan hasn't had any input here.

I was astonished at the back and forth jabs that resulted here. Not that I am suddenly some self appointed mediator here but I thought that our opinions were all pretty valid here...and based on something that only we can make any use of: our personal experience. I paid for my Oasys before the prices came down. And I love the thing. It is a trouble free synth (for me) and much of my studio is Korg gear.

One question: In the face of way less than expected sales, what was Korg supposed to do as far as further development of the Oasys? Should they have dropped it prematurely as they did? Or should they have taken it in the shorts and stayed with the faithful customer base that trusted in Korg's rather strong suggestion of future development?? Not that my opinion counts twards much all by itself-- but I don't just think, I KNOW I got rammed hard and jacked out of a lot of money! I (and we, i.e., a lot of you guys) spent over $10,000 to get what we got. I busted my @$$ to put that money on the table. I took a financial beating to make it happen...and YES, on the (misguided) knowledge that Korg would support and continue developing my Oasys. If I took a financial beating to remain a faithful AND REPEAT customer of Korg's then why shouldn't they do the same to KEEP me as a faithful and repeat customer??? I bought ALL of my Korg gear new, not second hand. So Korg has reaped the rich reward of all of my purchases of their gear: 01/W Pro, Wavestation, TG500, an M3 73, my Triton EX88, the Radias, my beloved Oaysy, and more. All of my Korg gear is way cool stuff. BUT, my most expensive and promising piece was where Korg screwed me. And I wont forget them for it. Oasys II? Oh, heck no, I wont even look at it. Not EVEN if I have the dough! Korg screwed me (and you guys) and they can ram the Oasys II where the sun don't shine...even if it rips something.

I worked in sales for a short time a long time ago. One thing that I took with me from that experience is that you do NOT screw your customers!! They WONT forget about it PLUS they will tell others that you suck! I don't think I will do business with Korg again. It's too bad, too, because I love their gear but the principled part of my thinking has me looking elsewhere for my studio needs.

Finally, Korg, if you are reading this, you should have screwed me on the TG500 or something else- ANYthing less than the Oasys- 10 grand worth of my back breaking work! I would have forgiven you for anything less than my most expensive purchase from you.


Best regards to all,
David, aka UCanDream

[TSUNAMI]

TG500 is Yamaha ....

It's curious that Dan hasn't had any input here.

I was astonished at the back and forth jabs that resulted here. Not that I am suddenly some self appointed mediator here but I thought that our opinions were all pretty valid here...and based on something that only we can make any use of: our personal experience. I paid for my Oasys before the prices came down. And I love the thing. It is a trouble free synth (for me) and much of my studio is Korg gear.

One question: In the face of way less than expected sales, what was Korg supposed to do as far as further development of the Oasys? Should they have dropped it prematurely as they did? Or should they have taken it in the shorts and stayed with the faithful customer base that trusted in Korg's rather strong suggestion of future development?? Not that my opinion counts twards much all by itself-- but I don't just think, I KNOW I got rammed hard and jacked out of a lot of money! I (and we, i.e., a lot of you guys) spent over $10,000 to get what we got. I busted my @$$ to put that money on the table. I took a financial beating to make it happen...and YES, on the (misguided) knowledge that Korg would support and continue developing my Oasys. If I took a financial beating to remain a faithful AND REPEAT customer of Korg's then why shouldn't they do the same to KEEP me as a faithful and repeat customer??? I bought ALL of my Korg gear new, not second hand. So Korg has reaped the rich reward of all of my purchases of their gear: 01/W Pro, Wavestation, TG500, an M3 73, my Triton EX88, the Radias, my beloved Oaysy, and more. All of my Korg gear is way cool stuff. BUT, my most expensive and promising piece was where Korg screwed me. And I wont forget them for it. Oasys II? Oh, heck no, I wont even look at it. Not EVEN if I have the dough! Korg screwed me (and you guys) and they can ram the Oasys II where the sun don't shine...even if it rips something.

I worked in sales for a short time a long time ago. One thing that I took with me from that experience is that you do NOT screw your customers!! They WONT forget about it PLUS they will tell others that you suck! I don't think I will do business with Korg again. It's too bad, too, because I love their gear but the principled part of my thinking has me looking elsewhere for my studio needs.

Finally, Korg, if you are reading this, you should have screwed me on the TG500 or something else- ANYthing less than the Oasys- 10 grand worth of my back breaking work! I would have forgiven you for anything less than my most expensive purchase from you.


Best regards to all,
David, aka UCanDream

[/quote]

[Kevin Nolan]

I find this a very important thread. Sharp - I'm certainly not pointing a finger in an ad hoc way or to anyone in particular, and I'm sure if you look over some of my posts you'll find I've done my fair share of griping. But I do feel the points I've raised here are important and valid.

I'm sure you know I have huge respect for you, Daz and indeed everyone on this forum - but if that's gotten lost in this thread - then I state it here - you and Daz have been massively important to the Korg community and I for one am eternally grateful. Forum posts / emails can be lethal because, as they say, over 90% of human communication is non verbal. But I hope the validity in my long thought through points is not lost in this - in no way am I trying to pontificate here - the issue has nothing to do with 'me' - but too often there is too subjective over-criticism of electronic keyboards in particular, and I see it happening increasingly to OASYS; and have no doubt whatsoever it leads to changes in direction by manufacturers that have been too often negative and retrograde. There's more than anecdotal evidence for that over the years concerning many great keyboards that were end-of-lifed sooner than they should have been. There's nothing new in what I'm saying.

So please do not take offense - I stand by my broad point that I worry about over-criticism of OASYS - but I have and always will have huge respect for you, Daz, this forum and all its members.

Cheers,
Kevin.

[UCanDream]

"It's curious that Dan hasn't had any input here."

Well, since Jerry piped in please iggy the first (quoted) line of my last post. I just thought it was curious that anyone representing Korg was myseriously silent during this entire exchange. I also want to stress that my position about my own future purchases (or shall I say, "lack thereof") with Korg is in no way an attempt on my part to sway others in their thoughts or loyalty towards Korg. Jerry mentioned civility and the importance of dialog presentation w/o ulterior motives and my post adhered to that, I believe. Though, his repl posted before mine did.

One more thing is that it is my thought that Korg may be wise to consider the impact more carefully in the future of not fulfilling the strong suggestions (or as some have put it, "promises") that were placed in Keyboard Mag ads and elsewhere pertaining to future developments of the Oasys. If it would have put Korg out of business to stay the course with the Oasys then I understand dropping production and support. But if it would have 'just hurt' Korg...kind of like it 'just hurt' us poor ole guys to purchase our Oasys' then you big wigs (whoever you are) at Korg OWED it to us (and you know it) to stick with the program.


Cheers,
David, aka, UCanDream

[UCanDream]

To TSUNAMI:

Oopsie, I knew I was going to mistakenly end up with a Yamaha in there somewhere. I stand corrected in that one mistake. I apologize. I even walked into my studio before submitting my post to get a 'Korg body count.' Sorry about that.

My points still stand as stated...and very strongly so! (However, thank you for pointing out my error. LOL, I feel a little bit idiotic now.)





David

[TSUNAMI]

hey man no probs i'm just a geek who spots stuff like that !!!

To TSUNAMI:

Oopsie, I knew I was going to mistakenly end up with a Yamaha in there somewhere. I stand corrected in that one mistake. I apologize. I even walked into my studio before submitting my post to get a 'Korg body count.' Sorry about that.

My points still stand as stated...and very strongly so! (However, thank you for pointing out my error. LOL, I feel a little bit idiotic now.)





David

[TSUNAMI]

I too find it interesting that Dan hasn't commented as i did start this thread after Dan made a statement in another thread on Korg forums ....

"It's curious that Dan hasn't had any input here."

Well, since Jerry piped in please iggy the first (quoted) line of my last post. I just thought it was curious that anyone representing Korg was myseriously silent during this entire exchange. I also want to stress that my position about my own future purchases (or shall I say, "lack thereof") with Korg is in no way an attempt on my part to sway others in their thoughts or loyalty towards Korg. Jerry mentioned civility and the importance of dialog presentation w/o ulterior motives and my post adhered to that, I believe. Though, his repl posted before mine did.

One more thing is that it is my thought that Korg may be wise to consider the impact more carefully in the future of not fulfilling the strong suggestions (or as some have put it, "promises") that were placed in Keyboard Mag ads and elsewhere pertaining to future developments of the Oasys. If it would have put Korg out of business to stay the course with the Oasys then I understand dropping production and support. But if it would have 'just hurt' Korg...kind of like it 'just hurt' us poor ole guys to purchase our Oasys' then you big wigs (whoever you are) at Korg OWED it to us (and you know it) to stick with the program.


Cheers,
David, aka, UCanDream

[Daz]

So many points to reply to here I don't where to begin ... I'll just freeform here and right more as I go ...

* I have a lot of sympathy for what Martin and David have written. That's pretty much how I feel too.

* Regarding the amount and strength of 'negative' postings - what surprises me more is the lack of what might be called 'positive' postings to balance those up. The Oasys is just amazing and I see some folks clearly get that, but it sometimes seems the joy of owning of this great instrument doesn't seem to come across as much as it's foibles. There are so many things to explore and harness for creativity, but those topics have always been less in volume. With an instrument of this complexity I have always felt a team effort was required to get the most of it.

* Would I buy another Oasys variant ? I voted 'no'. Not because the product wouldn't be awesome, but because the Oasys experience has shifted two things for me. Firstly I wouldn't invest this kind of money in a single item of this type again. It doesn't work for me, thinking retrospectively. Secondly, my Korg "customer satisfaction" has taken a couple of hits. I am still a great fan of the brilliant Korg products I own, but I am not so much of a fan of the Korg brand anymore. Sorry to be frank, but hey everyone else gets to say what they want.

* Thanks to all for your show of appreciation for our efforts.

Daz.