Kronos' Arpeggiator

dokido · Post by **dokido** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:41 pm

StephenKay wrote:
dokido wrote:but I agree about that I dont need to create my own arps, but I would like to have a lot of knobs so I can change the arps settings on the fly, gain, velocity etc, that is really fun. like in micro X, but there is more knobs in yamaha motif xf, 8 of them
That exists in Kronos. There are 16 controllers (8 switches and 8 sliders) hooked up to each KARMA Module. You change the control layer and all 16 are hooked up to one Module - and there is a master layer, where the 16 are hooked up to various macros that control all Modules at the same time. For example, in the Master Layer, Slider 3 is almost always hooked up to duration (gate) on all 4 modules, Slider 4 is hooked up to Velocity Accents on several modules, etc. Plenty of real-time control for morphing the music and having "fun".

the same as in m3 I suppose? Yes I like them, however I think the knobs are better to finetune the arps, the slider is trickier to move

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:03 am

I think Kronos' wave sequencer can be viewed as monophonic (?) advanced arpeggiator. It's pretty much the same - you can change pitch, volume and even crossfade of each step. So the only thing I like to add to wish list is to make wave sequencer polyphonic.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:46 pm

Also RPPR function can be easily used like a polyphonic arpeggiator in sequencer mode. RPPR patterns follow tempo change. How it is different from arpeggiator? Let's read arpeggiator definition:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpeggio

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:39 pm

I don't think RPPR follows the chords you play which seems a basic feature of any arpeggiator.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:21 pm

But you can simulate that behaviour and record RPPR in an arp way. The only difference - it will have a fixed cord progression.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:40 pm

Hello. Reading Mr Kay's comment that Korg engineers cannot allocate resourses / time for integrating GE editor into Kronos, I thought that it would be great if we could crowdfund this (and may be other) feature here to stimulate and inspire Korg developers?

Can this be done here via PayPal?

Because it would be a real pity for Kronos owners if Korg releases a newer hyperstation incompatible with Kronos and programmers will have even less time to make updates for Kronos and it will remain devoided of arpeggiator forever..

19naia · Post by **19naia** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:03 am

I can't imagine anything being better than having Karma on Kronos plus the Karma software. Of course for simple programable arps to escape the complexities of Karma, there are cheap step-sequencers/arp makers that cost less than the karma software and come with the added benefit of being an extra hardware midi control surface with pads and buttons and sliders and knobs.
Then also there are software arpeggiators that can mount in the same computer that you would have Karma software in. The best of both worlds for not too much cost.

~ Kronos, a laptop, karma software, a cheap hardware step sequencer and i can't believe people are overlooking the very cheap offerings in Korg Gadget. Any thing else would be over the top(nothing wrong with that in the name of living life) especially if you have your laptop also stocked with any of the popular DAW VST suites.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:54 am

I've found that Genome midi sequencer for iPad works just fine with Kronos. But anyway, it cannot substitute a fully programmable Karma onboard, as any other external software.

So the question to forum moderators is the same - can we use this particular topic or forum for Kronos feature crowdfunding? Do you have access to Korg developers to tell them of this business proposal? And what price will they demand for this feature implemented. I think, considering all the Kronos users who needs programmable arpeggiator and Karma in Kronos, it would be a considerable fundrising company, possibly worth of millions of $$. Rather than wait for someone to hack the Kronos, it is better to engage official developers. Please correct me if i am wrong or miss something.

Burydudexxx · Post by **Burydudexxx** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:54 pm

Unrelated perhaps, but is in a way - The traditional hands on Roland arpeggiator is coming back with the System 8 (alongside minimal step sequencer) - Have pre-ordered the System 8 to enhance my Kronos set-up as I really liked the arp on the original Jupiter 8

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:56 am

Still no reply, as if no one is interested, and.. It is impossible, because from the very start mr Kay had licensed Karma to Korg under conditions that they incorporate only Karma player into their keyboards, leaving Karma "recorder" to his revenue as an external software. That's why Korg will never include a Karma editor into Kronos - this point seems to be a part of Karma's license. (

Why I think it is like that - because as a synth developer in the past, I just cannot believe, that developers forgot, or found it hard to include Karma editor, while having made great job in embedding Karma player, also the fact that this software is divided in distinct two parts - is a speaking fact itself. Also, they cannot do it for almost several generations of their keyboards, starting from Korg Karma - just another fact. Also, the moderators know that it is impossible, that's why they are silent. May be I expose some commercial secret here, if so, sorry and delete this post.

So, my personal subjective conclusion is as follows - don't wait for Karma editor in Kronos, it will never happen, due to Karma license restrictions.

amit · Post by **amit** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:13 am

Have you even used karna editor??
It's easy to jump to conclusions but go to their forums look at it some screenshots.

It's quite a complex beast, what you see in kronos etc is just the control module of that and even that is not complete.

There are just way too many parameters in there that even if they were to implement in keyboard they would have to do much simpler version which will raise the same question that they gave a half assed version and what not.

I am glad that such an editor even exists.
For anyone who wants the functionality and does not add to the cost of kronos for all who don't need it.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:38 am

Yes, I've seen the screenshots, but again, I didn't jump to conclusions based upon one fact, see them listed above, and from the words of Kay himself, he said that it would be relatively easy, as all the needed code is ready and Korg developers just have to add some extra pages and shortcuts. So the information around it is contradictory and vague, so it all seems very strange.
Sure I'm also glad that this software exists, it is still better than nothing.
I hope things are like you describe, then we can fund this and make it of interest to Korg developers.
And again, we do not need all the bells and whistles of full Karma software, 90% of users just need to be able to edit Karma patterns. Which is not a titanic coding work, even Triton with its tiny ROM had it.

amit · Post by **amit** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:15 pm

That would have been true if Karma was just an arpeggiator, which it is not.
Karma is a Dynamic Midi Generator as opposed to an typical arpeggiator (Note data, derived from a chord).

The thing to note here is "Dynamic" which by virtue is a derivative of the underlying algorithms or the Matrix. There is no guarantee that it will exactly play what you want it to play as opposed to a programmable arpeggiator.

My point here is that instead of having or asking Karma engine do the work , It would be better if Korg included a native programmable arpeggiator module like the Triton or any.

i.e. Yes Karma can do arpeggios but is not necessarily always the best tool for them.
Yet, there are things that only Karma can do (Pity, that didn't ship it with more examples / use cases)

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:34 pm

Yes, you are right, returning Triton's or a brand new arpeggiator would be preferrable. But that would lead to necessity of hardware changes, as there're no spare buttons besides Karma's controls. We could use sequencer's buttons though. But then there'll be no arp in seq mode.

Aziz1008 · Post by **Aziz1008** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:56 am

A question to Mr. Kay and all Karma software users:

Can this software program a custom GE, which uses Karma switches on the keyboard as a step pattern input, and the sliders as a step's pitch value?
Then we could use this GE as a mono programmable arpeggiator. Is this possible?

I think it all depends on the software side. Because Kronos Karma just interpretes what to do with sliders and switches.