Radiation tainted Kronos?

[GregC]

I can make a point of not buying atlantic seafood (i.e., BP/Gulf of Mexico) but unless I go to the expense of buying a Geiger counter I'll have no way of altering me to an encounter with radioactive goods.

Just read an article today about how most restaurants around the country are now serving BP/Gulf of Mexico seafood, and not promoting it as as such, or calling it something else. Surprised?

So in terms of nuclear power, as long as there are going to be accidents and human error, it's probably the least viable form of energy in terms of recoverability from an accident.

Not worried. We need energy. Again, I direct you to my question: what would be worse? 20 + oil rigs in the sea off of Japan totally destroyed and spewing oil into the ocean, or the current nuclear situation (which, so far as I read it) is not so bad?

(According to the US Dept of Energy, the last reactor built was the "River Bend" plant in Louisiana. Its construction began in March of 1977. The last nuclear plant to begin commercial operation is the "Watts Bar" plant in Tennessee, which came online in 1996.)

Stephen, do you know why there are not more Nuclear plants in the US
and no plants constructed since 1977 ?

FYI, it isn't because of the goofy self serving media terrifying (some) Americans.

[Hedegaard]

I know it's probably a stupid question but is it possible the new units coming into the US will have radiation? Please don't laugh at my stupidity either because I'm being serious...OK....Go ahead and laugh a little bit....moon

US Navy today declared that radiation level on the vessels used for Tsunami rescue in the Fukushima prefecture is so low that it can be washed out using water and soap.

Wash your Kronos and you'll be fine.

The step-by-step procedure is at page 8320 of the reference guide,

but in a nutshell it is: soap, rinse, repeat

You better not use the same water for shampooing your hamster though.

I would like Dan to confirm that it is on page 8320 of the reference guide.
Dan, did you also draw diagrams, showing people how to wear radiation suits and gloves and a NASA helmet whilst cleaning the Kronos?

[Citizen Klaus]

To me, it's not a matter of one being a worse catastrophe than the other. The consequences of either are dire, just with different characteristics. But if I had to choose, I'd choose the oil spill:

• they occur mainly away from people's homes, and don't generally cause the environment around them to become so toxic that they're no longer inhabitable

One last round of comments:

It's worth keeping in mind that not all radiation is equal, nor are all radioactive materials. To date, no uranium or plutonium has escaped containment at Fukushima. According to the IAEA, the emissions of most concern are iodine-131 and cesium-137. The first has a half-life of eight days, the second, ~30 years. In addition, much less cesium-137 is being emitted compared to iodine-131.

Fukushima will be habitable again; it's not going to become an exclusion zone.

• oil spillage generally doesn't blow around the world in a toxic cloud

Neither of the emissions have reached other countries at a level sufficient to cause public health concerns.

• the half-life of oil isn't some umpteen billion years

See top.

• radiation is a known cause of cancer, which used to be called "consumption". I'd rather not be so consumed if I can help avoid it.

It's fairly well-known just how much radiation a person can be subjected to before the risk of cancer starts to rise above normal. So far, the only persons who have even come close to that threshold are the emergency workers at Fukushima, and even they are being rotated out regularly to keep them below the threshold.

Even in the gap between the Western and Japanese evacuation zones, the measured radiation isn't sufficiently above background to cause a genuine cancer concern. It's elevated, but not that elevated. And it's decreasing every day.

I think that everyone should have a very healthy fear of radiation and radioactive materials. But yes, if I had to choose, I'd prefer to see an oil spill.

Here, I guess, is where we'll have to agree to disagree. Radiation isn't a monolithic thing; some radioactive materials are more dangerous than others. Bananas are benign, plutonium is very bad, and most are somewhere in between. Iodine and cesium, especially in the levels currently measured, are bad, but not panic-worthy.

And the environmental hazards of oil spills are well documented -- just look at the recent Deepwater Horizon fiasco in the Gulf of Mexico. By contrast, the IAEA's Marine Environmental Laboratory has reported that marine emissions from Fukushima are below legal limits.

(To be fair, oils are not monolithic, either; some are more hazardous to the environment than others. But the delta between the degree of damage caused by the different types of oil is much smaller than the delta between different types of radioactive materials.)

[peter_schwartz]

Hi Citizen K.,

Good to get your reply.

Personally I don't believe that the elevated radiation levels not worth worrying about. Notice how authorities around the world are all on the same page in terms of saying "don't worry about it". From Japan to Boston, where radioactive iodine was found in trace amounts in a water supply. You could look at it two ways, I guess... one would be as you're saying, that there's not much to worry about. The other is that we're being hosed.

About a week and a half ago there was a woman from the NRC being interviewed on some very brightly-lit morning US TV show along with a squeeky-clean male scientist type smiling and grinning about how easy it is to protect one's self from radiation by wearing Tyvek suits "just like painters wear" (something they emphasized, as if trying to make the situation understandable to a 3 year old) and how taking a shower will remove 95% of radioactive residue from the surface of your body. My thinking is "Yeah, great. What about the other 5%? So, OK, take two showers?"

And prior to taking that shower, you were supposed to put your contaminated clothes and jewelry in a plastic bag, leave it outside, and call the authorities to pick it up from your house. Who this authority was went unidentified.

Conclusion: it's propaganda. White-washing.

And who knows, maybe that's as much conspiracy theory as Stephen's "liberal media agenda", but that's how I see it. In short, we'll know when the catastrophe is over when it's over. In the meantime, we'll get a lot of bogus or incomplete information masquerading as news and entertainment (everyone loves a tragedy, don't they?) and the long-term effects, just like the Gulf oil spill, won't really be known until they're known.

[danatkorg]

If it was only governments who were saying that there was no cause for concern outside the immediate area of the plants, that would be one thing. But most of the scientific comments I've read say similar things, including those from scientists who have been involved in exposing other risks from radiation. For example, see:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/29/scien ... ted=1&_r=1

- Dan

[Akos Janca]

I think one thought is missing from these kind of threads: the effect of absorbed radiaton is accumulating in us through the whole life. Our body never forgets it. The more you get - and not just at once - the higher the risk of illness. So, it's highly recommended to avoid all types of radiation (strong or weak) in general.

With the above I certainly don't want to say it's dangerous to buy a Kronos or anything from Japan.

PS. Anybody knows why those alarms went off exactly? What was the predefined limit and what was the actual radiation level above it?

[Kevin Nolan]

At least you'll look cool on a dark stage (and will be able to change presets without the use of a lamp)!!

Kevin.

PS - the whole discussion of effect on the Kronos is utter nonsence (and without trying to lecture - suggest dropping this and having a bit more respect to the hundreds of thousands of displaced Japanese people living within a stones throw of the disaster area - worrying about radiation laiden keyboards reads as a bit trite and misplaced).

[jimknopf]

I don't see any dangers for German Kronos buyers: nothing coming from Japan with any significant level of radiation will pass the German toll. And this is certainly the very last thing I think about anyway, facing the situation in Japan.

Concerning complicated matters like radiation, it is always wise to stay out of emotional black and white patterns - either way. And I am glad that a much worse scenario so far(!) could be avoided, though everyone should be very aware it was rather a matter of coincidence and luck than of skill and control (all nuclear experts in Germany tell us that the level of human control you have at this point of a nuclear accident is much lower than we would hope and wish).

If Tepco, meanhwile critisized for their chaotic information politics even by the Japanese government (who are responsible for their own share of misleading information), now admit the existence of plutoniom in the power plant ground (where it should certainly not be!), and also finally have to admit a temporal core meltdown (something German nuclear scientists regarded as fact based on strong indications since days, even from this distance, before Tepco admitted anything of that kind!), both informations should warn anyone to think that Japan is back to normality concerning the radiation dangers.

So my concern is certainly no fear of radiation from an imported Kronos. My concern is about the health of people, especiall in Japan around Fukushima. I guess it is no good idea of some of them (though I understand their feelings) to return to their houses close to the reactor now.

[orpheus2006]

Fukushima will be habitable again; it's not going to become an exclusion zone.

True, but you have to wait quite a while, most likely some 100-thousands years. Today Tepco admitted that they have detected plutonium outside the reactor.

If radioactive material is spread over larger areas (which is not unlikely if the situation continues to be unstable) then there is some probability that electronic equipment from Japan is contaminated.

So far, the only persons who have even come close to that threshold are the emergency workers at Fukushima, and even they are being rotated out regularly to keep them below the threshold.

Some of these workers definitely will suffer damage or even death. Tepco and also the IAEA (as a promotor of peaceful use of nuclear energy) have some interest to be quite mysterious about it.

[ozy]

the effect of absorbed radiaton is accumulating in us through the whole life. Our body never forgets it

go figure! My body will forget. I'd be surprised with the contrary.

At my age, I forget a lot of things. Way too many of them.

Where are my eyeglasses? Hey, did anybody see my cell phone? Hi honey, I am at the drugsotre: what was I supposed to buy?

Alzheimer will save me from radiation.

[orpheus2006]

Alzheimer will save me from radiation.

Wrong! It's vice versa.

[peter_schwartz]

T7, thanks for the correction about what consumption is/was. Still, whatever it is? I don't want it.

Dan, thanks for that link. From that article... “People are very worried, which is not surprising,” he said. “We want people to be able to make some kind of realistic assessment.” My take? I don't think there can be such a thing as a realistic assessment of this situation. Too many geopolitics involved. But hey, I'm the kinda guy who, when sitting in the dentist's chair, pulls the lead sheet a little further up on his neck than where the dental assistant originally placed it.

EnjoyRC, re sushi, a good "add".

[T7]

T7, thanks for the correction about what consumption is/was.

I've watched a lot of westerns.

[Citizen Klaus]

Today Tepco admitted that they have detected plutonium outside the reactor.

But not in quantities that exceed natural background levels -- that's the important detail that seems to be getting left out. The only distinctive feature of this is that the composition of these particular traces indicate that they probably came from Fukushima.

This is certainly a development, but it doesn't necessarily signal that the situation has deteriorated in any way. IAEA isn't citing this as grounds for concern.

[rrricky rrrecordo]

Today Tepco admitted that they have detected plutonium outside the reactor.

But not in quantities that exceed natural background levels -- that's the important detail that seems to be getting left out. The only distinctive feature of this is that the composition of these particular traces indicate that they probably came from Fukushima.

This is certainly a development, but it doesn't necessarily signal that the situation has deteriorated in any way. IAEA isn't citing this as grounds for concern.

Well now they're saying that the levels of plutonium are "low", no longer "below natural levels". Oh, and the reactor suspected of leaking plutonium and the associated alpha rays from its fuel rods has been observed to have risen in temperature by an additional 20 degrees c. today.

Fukkin right it's deteriorating.

Every day.

Have you been watching the live TEPCO press conferences on NHK? They admit to recent "temporary" meltdown, and say the situation remains "grave".

Each press conference just brings worse news that the one before.

This ain't CNN and FOX sensationalism, its Japan's national communications network, man