!!! Urgent MIDI help needed!!!

synthjoe · Post by **synthjoe** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:19 am

OK, just checked MIDI-OX, you should be able to do a loopback test like this:

- disconnect all MIDI cables from your synth
- start MIDI-OX and switch on both input and output monitoring in MIDI-OX (make sure in 'Options/MIDI devices' that the appropriate ports are swithced on so that you can monitor them), both input and output displays should be quiet, no data to display
- plug the interface's MIDI IN cable into the MIDI THRU of your synth - nothing should happen
- plug the MIDI OUT cable of your interface into the MIDI IN of the synth, still, nothing should happen
- activate 'play notes from your computer keyboard' (from the menu, toolbar or 'KYB' in the status bar of the MIDI-OX window - still, nothing should happen
- press one of the computer keyboard's keys, say 'X' or another from the bottom row

This last event should trigger a continuous stream of data on both the input and the output monitor screens and the data must be identical. If the loop stops or there is no running data on the input at all, then your interface (or less likely the THRU port of your synth) is broken - or there is a slim chance of incorrect MIDI configuration on your PC, but in those cases the description further down applies better, usually.

If you get data stream on your input monitor (or both input and output) before pressing anything on the computer keyboard then you have a problem with your MIDI configuration, because MIDI THRU cannot transmit without MIDI IN receiving data. It might be that some other program is transmitting in the background, a faulty MIDI interface (unlikely) or improperly connected cable spaghetti if you're unsing a complex MIDI setup and/or MIDI junction boxes.

The fact that your computer freezes when connecting the loopback indicates to me that there's someting wrong with your MIDI configuration, less likely with the MIDI hardware (but still, possible). Hope the above helps to test/troubleshoot your interface and configuration.

strider93 · Post by **strider93** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:25 am

@xmlguy -- thanks a lot for the recommendation (and also for the helpful replies throughout the whole thread!

)
@synthjoe -- I tried your method and here's what happened:
1- no data in both monitors (input and output)
2- still no data when i activated 'play notes from your computer keyboard'
3- when I hit a note continuous data began displaying in both monitors and didn't stop even after a while

I don't really know how to compare the in/output data since it didn't stop and it was appearing at a very fast speed. If I have to, I'll run the test again, tho do you understand anything from the fact that the troubleshooting appears to run smoothly?

synthjoe · Post by **synthjoe** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:07 pm

Data stream will never stop as it is a loopback test, i.e. an endless data stream within the loop.

strider93 wrote:I don't really know how to compare the in/output data since it didn't stop and it was appearing at a very fast speed. If I have to, I'll run the test again, tho do you understand anything from the fact that the troubleshooting appears to run smoothly?

You can simply unplug either of the MIDI connectors from your synth (that should break the loop - hence the data stream). Alternatively, you can switch off the synth, or use one of the controls circled in red on the picture below to freeze the data display.

On the other hand it should be the same double line repeating on the screen (one note on and one note off event), so if you see continuously altering data then something's definitively wrong with the interface. However, if you cannot really see on the scrolling display whether everything's OK despite of only the two lines altering, then freezing the scroll as described above should allow you to inspect both sides fully. Or, you can log for a few seconcs into a file and inspect in detail. But again, if you press only one key to start the loopback test, then data out should be only two events altering and data in must mirror the same, like on this picture:

strider93 · Post by **strider93** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:42 pm

Huh, ran the test on my dad's win XP laptop and here's the result:

Odd enough, everything seems fine O__o doesn't it?

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:21 am

Some midi drivers work fine for note on/off, but fail with sysex commands. So the loopback may not do any good for diagnosing this problem. Sysex is different than other midi commands because it sends a large batch of data as part of one command, while the other commands are just several bytes in length.

strider93 · Post by **strider93** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:29 pm

So you're suggesting that the problem might be from the drivers?

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:29 pm

That's right. A lot of USB-midi drivers, particularly the ones that come with cheap USB-midi "cable" products, don't work properly with sysex commands. You can check for updated "advanced" drivers, but some of the "cable" products are impossible to track down, or don't come with separate drivers because they use the default Windows usb-midi driver (called class-compliant), which has a known problem with large sysex transfers.

Here's a link from the MIDI-OX forum that describes this specific problem:

http://www.midiox.com/cgi/yabb/YaBB.pl? ... 1235670742

strider93 · Post by **strider93** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:26 pm

ah I see... just as I suspected, the problem comes from the fact that my "cable" doesn't even have a disk with drivers so I was using the windows' ones ): Guess I'll just bite the bullet and buy an expensive but reliable interface which comes with it's own drivers ^^

Thanks a lot again, guys! You did everything possible trying to help me and I greatly appreciate it!

Cheers!

xmlguy · Post by **xmlguy** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:00 pm

There's one thing you can try first.

In MIDI-OX, set the input and output buffers to 40000. Set the # of buffers to 2. Set the Delay after F7 to 10000. You'll have to type these numbers in because the spinner control doesn't go that high for the buffer sizes.

That may workaround the Microsoft sysex problem. This should send the sysex as a single buffer, because the sysex command for the X5D ALL DATA DUMP is around 35,311 bytes.

strider93 · Post by **strider93** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:35 am

Reviving this thread once again since I am still experiencing some problems ):
@xmlguy -- thanks for the last post - tried those settings too tho they didn't help
-----

So, I bought a Roland Edirol UM1-X USB MIDI interface. After downloading the drivers for Win7x32 (my desktop's OS) from Roland's site and installing them I thought everything would work as a charm - wrong. Tried doing the same thing on my laptop which is running under XP home edition - same thing. Basically the problem is that MIDI OX seems to recognize the device although after sending a .sysex file (for example JayB's X5D sounds) it says "0 bytes received" in the Sysex scratchpad window and my X5D doesn't even show a "processing" message on its screen. I also installed Korg's drivers for X5D on the laptop (even though they are meant for Win95, not XP) + the X5D sound editor which comes with the drivers. After trying to select "Roland UM1" as both input and output device in this editor it gives me the following message - "Midi communication error occurred. Check midi cables and interface."

Could the problem be coming from the device itself again?! I thought Roland's midi devices were reliable that's why I bought one

Or is there something wrong with the drivers? Some settings in the control panel that I need to tweak a bit perhaps?
Any help would be appreciated a lot since this problem is literally driving me insane

synthjoe · Post by **synthjoe** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:40 pm

Sorry to hear again about such a tenacious problem.

strider93 wrote:...I also installed Korg's drivers for X5D on the laptop (even though they are meant for Win95, not XP)...

Not a good idea. I suggest to remove that driver. The software should work without it if you're able to select the right MIDI port. The serial driver you need for XP is 'Korg Midi Driver PCIF-NT for Windows NT/2000/XP' (available on the Kokrg UK support page), or look for a similar up to date serial driver for Win7. It is just a generic serial port MIDI driver, even another manufacturer's might work - but anyways, that should not be essential to the working of the editor. (I've never used it, so I might be wrong - someone will correct me if so.)

The behaviour of your synth seems to suggest that it is not receiving MIDI data from the PC, the message from your computer seems to indicate that it is not receiving data from the synth. However, the loopback test confirmed that your computer's MIDI IN and OUT are both OK, as well as the MIDI IN and THRU of your syth. The only untested element in the equation is the MIDI OUT port of your X5D. So play some keys and check the input monitor in MIDI-OX, it should show note on and note off events as you key away (you have reconnected the MIDI IN of your interface to the MIDI OUT of your synth before sending sysex, havent' you?). If that also works, then there can be no physical problem in the loop, the only thing I can think of would be MIDI configuration, in particular:
- global channel (global setup page 2A) is not set to match channel number in the computer application (if capable to handle this) or the file you're sending
- sysex filter is not allowing sysex loading (global setup page 2A)
- sysex file is not appropriate for the synth, manufacturer, device and/or model ID not suitable

The simplest would be to set up MIDI-OX to receive a sysex bulk dump, initiate a bulk dump from the X5D (global setup page 4A), save the result as a file and send it back from MIDI-OX. It should work, because ID's are the same (unless you change something between the two transfers). If it doesn't, then there might be indeed some deeper hardware problem.

If this works, however, then you need to have a deeper look into the files you're trying to send (ID's, channels, etc.).

strider93 · Post by **strider93** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:50 pm

Ookay~ The Roland interface was pissing me off so I decided to try again with the previous one (unknown cheap midi interface) and here's the result. So, I tried doing what you suggested: playing some keys - the programme registered them without a problem. Next I sent a bulk dump from the X5D to my pc and back - had no problem whatsoever either.
However! the most interesting part is that I found some really small (~200 bytes) sysex files compatible with my keyboard from this website and I tried sending them to the X5D. Surprisingly, everything worked perfectly O_o
So, from what I tried I can suggest that the problem is only present when I'm sending large files (all other sysex files I have are around 35KB in size)

Is my theory correct? If not - what might be wrong then? If yes - any suggestions why is this happening and how can I fix it?
Thanks in advance again guys, you're awesome!

p.s.: the parametres of Global page 02A Midi global are CH=1 and NoteR=all
I believe I've nailed down the settings of the keyboard and the problem is from my pc/its software

synthjoe · Post by **synthjoe** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:00 pm

OK, you can send a full dump from your X5D and save, that's good news. However, I did not see you confirming that you can send back the same full X5D dump (about 35 kB) from the computer without errors. Can you? If you can, then your conclusion is wrong: the problem is not with the PC settings, but with the large files you're trying to send. They should be the same size as your own full dump.

strider93 · Post by **strider93** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:04 pm

Actually the bulk dump was only 17KB in size - half the size of the other files. I'll try sending both pre-a AND pre-b later. Tho just a question - how can I understand whether I've sent the file correctly if the sounds are the same?

synthjoe · Post by **synthjoe** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:26 am

strider93 wrote:Tho just a question - how can I understand whether I've sent the file correctly if the sounds are the same?

No error message and the sounds are indeed the same...

Select 'all' (instead of 'prog') in MIDI dump screen (4A) and you should get the full 35k.