9 minutes pa3x start up!

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sat May 12, 2012 11:16 pm

The described PCM issue exists as long I remember KMP format and duplicated common
samples is a rule when you work on your setup (and not odd thing at all in sound development ) ,
but I recently noticed that this rule also effects Pa3X start up time !

Post by **Sharp** » Sun May 13, 2012 12:06 am

Under the conditions you mentioned where you are recycling the same PCM data in different multisamples, yeah maybe, but who on earth does things that way ?

The entire reason why it's not been an issue in the past is because nobody works this way and so nobody probably even knew the “bug” even existed. KORG certainly don't work this way either.

Oh well... either way something very odd was found that KORG can fix so it doesn't matter either way in the end.

Regards
Sharp.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sun May 13, 2012 3:07 am

Sharp wrote:The entire reason why it's not been an issue in the past is because nobody works this way and so nobody probably even knew the “bug” even existed. KORG certainly don't work this way either. .

Though reason of my notice is just to avoid that issue
I inform you that Korg and all keyboard developers use the same rom
samples repeatedly in sounds ,like pipe blowings ,Fx noises and
relative sound articulations ,therefore since user's "Rom" is Ram and PCM
data , procedure is exactly the same in order to save ram , if doubt just ask them !
For example I use 3 differerent sampled versions οf an ethnic string insτrument arranged in multisamples
and I use common C2 and C5 samples in high velocity layers since that gave me best results.
Anyway , just for the off-topic story.

Post by **Sharp** » Sun May 13, 2012 9:48 am

I inform you that Korg and all keyboard developers use the same rom
samples repeatedly in sounds ,like pipe blowings ,Fx noises and
relative sound articulations

I don't seem to be making my point clearly or something.

A multisample can only contain one single layer of samples. When DNC triggers an articulation it does so by triggering a completely different OSC within the SOUND, which contains a completely different multisample which contains the articulations.

This is the underlining concept of how DNC works.

For a flute sound on your keyboard when you hit the key hard and the sound changes, that's velocity layers. A completely different OSC is accessed to access a completely different Multisample.

If what you said was common as you think, then everyone would have run into this issue a long long time ago. Nobody works this way.

Regards
Sharp

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sun May 13, 2012 11:09 am

OK Sharp ... I think we said everything needed !

redfox · Post by **redfox** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:27 pm

tramannoni wrote:
redfox wrote:we can do something to not be in these situations? Or it is a dysfunction related to the number of samples loaded?
It depends on a mix of factors, that are unfortunately impossible to collect on a limited set of rules. We are working on it, and it will be solved in the next OS release.

Thank you very much Paolo: I am sure that your software engineers are able to solve this problem and others that have been reported in new OS version.

(ironic mode on) Two months for this responce, five minutes to turn on my keyboard, one week for battery replacement, one year for OS major update: why I had to pay immediatly when I bought my PA3X? (ironic mode off)

Just kidding (oh, e si fa per scherzare!!)

Ciao,
Claudio

hakanx · Post by **hakanx** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:48 pm

AntonySharmman wrote:256 Mb User samples plus OPS need more than 5 minutes for initial loading.
To avoid Ram pre-loading every time Pa3X is turned on a St-By battery is added to retain Ram data , as commonly known.
Therefore if you exceed 4 minutes loading one of the bellow must occur :

- In Ram socket St-By switch is turned off.
- AC cable was disconnected for more than 3 days and ST-BY battery is fully discharged.
- Battery is destroyed and needs replacement (check battery's state)

If all above are in order then data can be hardly red from internal SSD
caused by heavy fragmentation or sector errors and you need technical support.

PS my personal set is 500 Mb compressed and loading time is always less
than 3 minutes and concern only OPS , so there's no Pa3X issue.

bigger sample size not taking more time at startup, it's about how many samples you have.

with 1000 samples (256 mb) opens in less then 3 minutes
with 8000 samples (128 mb) takes more than 9 minutes

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Thu May 17, 2012 7:41 pm

hakanx
I partially agree , first factor is number of samples , but size follows , test 1000 samples of 128 kb , then 1000 of 256 kb and test ram loading time with no pre-loading battery , time will be increased at second example.
In my projects 5500 samples or 3000 samples using St_By battery start-up time is always 3 minutes , in both cases.

hakanx · Post by **hakanx** » Fri May 18, 2012 9:47 pm

i'm using 7994 sample in 128 mb (compressed) and startup time is 9 min. with battery.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sat May 19, 2012 5:27 pm

I have no reason to doubt since a lot of people claim of that issue and since
I never exceeded 6000 samples !
As I mentioned , start up time of up to 5500 samples with ST-By battery is
always less than 4 minutes in hundreds of Pa3X that my commercial set is installed !

hakanx · Post by **hakanx** » Sun May 20, 2012 10:22 am

this is a big problem for me and i wish korg fix the problem with new o.s.

Post by **Sharp** » Sun May 20, 2012 12:17 pm

hakanx wrote:this is a big problem for me and i wish korg fix the problem with new o.s.

Are your multisamples assembled in the same way AntonySharmman and myself where discussing?.

As in your recycling the same samples in other multisamples.

Regards
Sharp.

AntonySharmman · Post by **AntonySharmman** » Sun May 20, 2012 1:53 pm

A User's Pa3X came yesterday to my lab with 10m delaying time and the issue
was solved in a few minutes , so I'll describe a notice for your samples.

People that face delaying start up issue must search all samples and
detect if at least one of them is registered with faded letters directory.
Usually this happens when loading a multisample with no sufficient Ram and
these samples are invalid ,with the presence of directory only , can't be red
or deleted causing conflict and delaying start up time of Pa3X especially if compressed !

Then every time you save your set these samples are saved as invalid until you erase them
but actually you can't , and the only way is :
You must find out the container multisample of these faded samples, delete it and then
delete all unused samples from sampler menu !

This might help some you that facing that issue !
And remember that an OPS Update can't resolve issues that we cause ourselves !

gempk5 · Post by **gempk5** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:40 am

delete all unused samples from sampler menu..how we do that please let us know.thank you

hakanx · Post by **hakanx** » Mon May 21, 2012 10:29 am

all my samples assigned to multisamples, i did edit them one by one. melodic instruments are not a problem at loading time. but loops are taking a long time while loading.