Whither KRONOS v2 Editor?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:36 am

SoundQuest wrote:
SanderXpander wrote:PCGTools lets you open a pcg file without having a Kronos attached, and move around programs within that file (or to another pcg file) also updating the references to those programs in the combis in the pcg.
And so does the editor (in its native file format of course). The editors maintains child links for Combis, Programs, Songs, Drum Kits, and Wave Sequences.

The editor reads nor exports PCGs. I don't see why I'd ever use it offline as long as it doesn't.

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:58 pm

Saxifraga wrote:
BobTheDog wrote:iOS simple, Kronos sysex simple, complex GUI design simple!
Why don't you knock it up in a couple of hours then?
Some basic fallacies of yours. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/quanfall.html
"Some steps are simple => The whole process is simple."
And where did I say "Kronos sysex simple"?
Another fallacy. Hm.. red hering?

What did I say?
Novation -> 1 Engine = at least 1 Editor (Part)
Korg -> 9 Engines = at least 9 Editors (Parts)
So the problem is only linear. It´s only the sum that´s bigger, not the complexity. Of course any of this Editors can be complex and some more complex then others.

Also Korg could do more then a MIDI sysex (Soundquest) control of the Kronos. There is a Linux machine in there.
There could be libraries in there that implement an API to control the Engine in a more direct and/or abstract manner without MIDI sysex.

And for the implicit ad hominem:
I do this project alone as a hobby.
I earn my money with programming other stuff.
What really needs time is the UI design that does what you need to do in an effective way.
Coding is not that time consuming.

So are you going to knock the app up then, I'll pay a dollar for it?

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:29 pm

Saxifraga wrote:
GregC wrote:
BasariStudios wrote: Of course i agree with you too and i know they don't really tell you how to
run but i was just thinking Logically.
thinking logically would be observing for some time that this forum is independent based on fact and by action for several years, even while Korg is providing a server.
Faulty logic it is.
You argue the validity of a principle by a timeseries of examples.
"It just not yet happend." is no proof.
You can defend it only by proving:"It can never happen, no matter what."

1. Korg owns the server
2. Moderators sell through Korgs online shop.
Can you call that independent?

If facts 1 and 2 have no consequences to the content of discussions and the behavior of the moderators then that is fine.
And of course this forum is very usefull and I don´t see any danger from it being an indirect part of Korg Inc.
But it´s not "Moderated Independently" anymore. You stress that with undeline in the header. Just remove it and everything is fine. Or write "Mostly Moderated Independently"

For example: If someone sells products to or through an independent NGO he cannot be part of the steering committee of that NGO because of a conflict of interest.

And this is NOT an ad hominem against Sharp.
It´s an adult discussion about a topic of logic and good practices.

still waiting for you to produce something. Maybe you need a deadline.

I think Sept 30, 2012 is fair

Saxifraga · Post by **Saxifraga** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:25 pm

GregC wrote: still waiting for you to produce something. Maybe you need a deadline.

I think Sept 30, 2012 is fair

For you I will make it 199,99€

Cannot make a living from some 1000 Kronos owners who simultaneously own an iPad.

tmatos75 · Post by **tmatos75** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:02 pm

Saxifraga wrote:
GregC wrote: still waiting for you to produce something. Maybe you need a deadline.

I think Sept 30, 2012 is fair

For you I will make it 199,99€

Cannot make a living from some 1000 Kronos owners who simultaneously own an iPad.

...reminds me of a quote from the movie "True Romance"

"What we got here is a little game of show and tell. You dont wanna show me nothing, but you're telling me everything"

Post by **Sharp** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:17 pm

BasariStudios wrote:
sigiriuk wrote:Kevin - sorry to be a stickler, but the forums are not independent if Korg funds the hsoting.
I have to kinda agree with this, before maybe but now i think Korg is more
involved with us in here, it is not independent anymore.

I feel like a broken record on this subject.

In the next day or so I'm going to update the FAQ so moderators won't have to keep repeating themselves to people who don't listen when told the forum is moderated and owned independently.

The HOST is KORG USA, and before them it was Site5 and before than it was many others.... I've used many hosts in the last decade.

None of that changes the fact that the forums are still owned and moderated independently of KORG.

So, until the day KORG drops off a dump truck full of cash, this site is 100% independently moderated and owned. After that, you will find all the moderators and myself on a holiday somewhere real hot and then you will see the difference when a forum is officially owned by a company.

Regards
Sharp.

BasariStudios · Post by **BasariStudios** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:20 pm

Lolz...dont take your Kronos with you if its real hot.

Saxifraga · Post by **Saxifraga** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:30 pm

tmatos75 wrote: ...reminds me of a quote from the movie "True Romance"

"What we got here is a little game of show and tell. You dont wanna show me nothing, but you're telling me everything"

You are off topic.
This is not about me but about Korg not delivering an editor and an update.

EOF

Saxifraga · Post by **Saxifraga** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:34 pm

Sharp wrote: ...
So, until the day KORG drops off a dump truck full of cash, this site is 100% independently moderated and owned. After that, you will find all the moderators and myself on a holiday somewhere real hot and then you will see the difference when a forum is officially owned by a company.

Regards
Sharp.

I don´t get it. Why do people always feel pissed, offended or attack the "offender", if you discuss a topic of theoretical importance?
No one said you did anything wrong.
Sorry if you got that impression.

jimknopf · Post by **jimknopf** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:01 pm

I doubt that this part of the discussion is of ANY relevance or "theoretical importance", or that reactions are about "being pissed" or "offending the offender" or other childish stuff. From my view the reactions are about being treated fair or unfair.

Before I see moderators act in a role which leaves a clear impression of company dependence, I don't think such thoughts are fair or make much sense. Sharp is not paid by Korg. He sells what he has been working on as Kronos user, like any other forum user selling soundsets for an instrument he plays. If Qui or Michel or any other trustworthy Kronos user were moderator, I also couldn't care less.

In this case I see nothing but insinuating a problem, where for anyone having a careful look at the forum discussion culture, from my view there is none.

There obviously(!!!) have
a) been no efforts at all by Korg company members to control forum discussions
b) been no efforts of moderators to supress critical user opinions
I myself never met moderation, when being sarcastic about the first year of editor delay or for critical remarks about the poor result afterwards, or before about calling the original Kronos fan crappy or whatever critical opinion.

Anger about a missing editor and different opinions about Korg's behavior are IMO no reason to question the independence/integrity of the forum or it's moderators. I think the moderators do an EXCELLENT job here, leaving ctritical discussions intact (up to crticial stickies!) and only preventing obvious trolling. So from my side explicit congratulations to the team for their independence and their balanced behavior!

Comrad_Durandal · Post by **Comrad_Durandal** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:43 pm

jimknopf wrote:I doubt that this part of the discussion is of ANY relevance or "theoretical importance", or that reactions are about "being pissed" or "offending the offender" or other childish stuff. From my view the reactions are about being treated fair or unfair.

Before I see moderators act in a role which leaves a clear impression of company dependence, I don't think such thoughts are fair or make much sense. Sharp is not paid by Korg. He sells what he has been working on as Kronos user, like any other forum user selling soundsets for an instrument he plays. If Qui or Michel or any other trustworthy Kronos user were moderator, I also couldn't care less.

In this case I see nothing but insinuating a problem, where for anyone having a careful look at the forum discussion culture, from my view there is none.

There obviously(!!!) have
a) been no efforts at all by Korg company members to control forum discussions
b) been no efforts of moderators to supress critical user opinions
I myself never met moderation, when being sarcastic about the first year of editor delay or for critical remarks about the poor result afterwards, or before about calling the original Kronos fan crappy or whatever critical opinion.

Anger about a missing editor and different opinions about Korg's behavior are IMO no reason to question the independence/integrity of the forum or it's moderators. I think the moderators do an EXCELLENT job here, leaving ctritical discussions intact (up to crticial stickies!) and only preventing obvious trolling. So from my side explicit congratulations to the team for their independence and their balanced behavior!

+1 - Ditto. Sharp, Pepperpotty, and the crew run a nice establishment for which I am greatful.

sigiriuk · Post by **sigiriuk** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:44 am

To Sharp

It is important to revisit subjects such as independence, and vested interests in KorgForums.
I am glad it has brought some lively discussion and clarity. Transparency is the issue here, rather than interference.

I would say that, with my other hat on, when submitting independent medical research or expert witness reports, one must always make declarations of interests, regarding funding, advertising etc. It is not for me to judge my conflicts of interests, but my peers, or Judges.

And whether you like it or not, the act of Korg paying for the hosting (and I acknowledge that it is very generous of them) remains a conflict of interest for the group, regardless of their level of interference, or lack thereof.

Nevertheless, I enjoy reading the posts, and learning from other people around the world, and it would be a loss for me if the forum were to disappear...so thank you Korg.......but where's my editor? You have until the end of September 2012 to release it or else I'll.....I'll.......

sigiriuk · Post by **sigiriuk** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:14 am

One final thing To Sharp
Thank you for keeping this forum in order! I am sure its a thankless task.
BW

RonF · Post by **RonF** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:14 pm

jimknopf wrote:I doubt that this part of the discussion is of ANY relevance or "theoretical importance", or that reactions are about "being pissed" or "offending the offender" or other childish stuff. From my view the reactions are about being treated fair or unfair.

Before I see moderators act in a role which leaves a clear impression of company dependence, I don't think such thoughts are fair or make much sense. Sharp is not paid by Korg. He sells what he has been working on as Kronos user, like any other forum user selling soundsets for an instrument he plays. If Qui or Michel or any other trustworthy Kronos user were moderator, I also couldn't care less.

In this case I see nothing but insinuating a problem, where for anyone having a careful look at the forum discussion culture, from my view there is none.

There obviously(!!!) have
a) been no efforts at all by Korg company members to control forum discussions
b) been no efforts of moderators to supress critical user opinions
I myself never met moderation, when being sarcastic about the first year of editor delay or for critical remarks about the poor result afterwards, or before about calling the original Kronos fan crappy or whatever critical opinion.

Anger about a missing editor and different opinions about Korg's behavior are IMO no reason to question the independence/integrity of the forum or it's moderators. I think the moderators do an EXCELLENT job here, leaving ctritical discussions intact (up to crticial stickies!) and only preventing obvious trolling. So from my side explicit congratulations to the team for their independence and their balanced behavior!

Well said! Hell yeah!!!

jazlover · Post by **jazlover** » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:43 pm

While we are seriously demanding transparency, I would also like to log this complaint.

Sharp have no sons. His house is full of females. He allows Pepperpotty (another female) to moderates this forum. As a male member of this forum, this is a blaring conflict of interest (despite the evidence).

There is no time like wasted time..............I mean the present....