Using a BCR2000 midi controller with the Kronos (How To)

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:47 pm

Nope. Doesn't work. There appears to be two way traffic but the BCR isn't responding.

Bryan

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:55 am

Thanks CPilot, that's a shame. Will have to expriment more when I receive mine in the mail.

Thanks for trying though!

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:19 am

From what I can see, it's the BCR2000 driver that gives the final reply so the format is completely different from the Kronos.

Quick update on the editor. I can now transmit positive and negative values up to 16383 which should cover anything on the Kronos. Bit like working in the dark though as there's not a lot of info. Have now added the MS-20. More synths to go. I picked the Polysix and MS-20 because the displays have lots of knobs and it's fun to watch them turning as I twiddle the controls on the BCR. Also they are a lot simpler than some of the other synths. For instance, HD-1 has over 7000 parameters so I'll have my work cut out trying to decide what to include.

Bryan

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:08 am

You sure are making a lot of progress! Great work!

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:04 pm

Just received my BCR2000 from a somewhat dodgy seller on eBay (brand new to him seems to mean manufactured in 2006, badly scratched and something rattling around inside, but I digress).

The good news is that you can easily program it without using the PC or the editor.

Connect the BCR2000 to the Kronos using 2 MIDI cables, not USB. This is because the Kronos doesn't appear to send data to MIDI devices connected via the USB-A ports. Make sure the BCR2000 is in Standalone mode (S1-S4).

The trick is to then set the MIDI clock on the KRONOS to External MIDI, which will prevent it from sending MIDI clock to the BCR2000 and allow the learn function to work. Without doing this, the MIDI clock from the KRONOS appears to confuse the BCR2000 and prevent the learn mode from working.

Unfortunately, as cpilot pointed out, there are some 14-bit messages the KRONOS sends that the BCR can't interpret, but it sounds like he's making progress. This mainly seems to affect the MS20 and Polysix, as most of the other parameters seem to be 7-bit only.

Hope this is of some help.

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:15 pm

Well done Seedy. We learn new things every day. I've been using the MIDI interface as the BCR can't handle the speed of USB, particularly if you are downloading large presets. As Seedy points out, the limit on learning is 127 because the BCR is essentially a MIDI device and sysex is only another message. Interestingly it can also learn negative values but can't do both on the same knob, You can program the BCR to do that but you need an editor for the sysex and the results are a little weird. So the thing to do is use two encoders, one for positive and one for negative. Absolutely essential if the values are greater than 127. If anyone is interested, I have eight presets for the Polysix and MS20 which cover the full range of values. Drop me a PM.

Bryan

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:44 am

Sounds like you're making great progress cpilot, hope you can keep us abreast of your discoveries.

I'm not sure what editor you're using, but I came across BC Manager today which looks very comprehensive:

http://home.kpn.nl/f2hmjvandenberg281/bcman.html

It allows custom Sysex definitions, including addressing schemes and includes a GUI for editing almost all parameters. It also includes a reference document for BCL and allows BCL to be sent directly to the BCR - although as it points out, its GUI covers nearly every function of BCL anyway.

I haven't tried it yet as I'm at work, but looking forward to trying it tonight when I get home.

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:48 pm

I'm using the editor that I'm in the process of writing. The difference is that it's Kronos specific so you don't have to worry about the sysex. The guts of Version 1 is working OK but the user interface is very primitive. Version 1 maps the parameters onto the encoders and buttons, generates the sysex and writes it all to a .syx file. Doesn't sound like much but it's taken eight pages of code so far. Lots of features to add though. And I've had to write auxiliary programs as well, like a preset dump and another to interpret the sysex doc into a spreadsheet format. I'm wondering if I've bitten off more than I can chew.

Bryan

SeedyLee · Post by **SeedyLee** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:28 am

Sounds like quite an exciting - and extensive - project you're undertaking Bryan

I like where you're heading with it.

Since I'm fundamentally lazy, one of the things that I quite like about BC Manager is the ability to define Sysex templates that can then be used to map device-specific sysex to individual controls be end users. I think that's probably the way I will go until something better (ie your utility) comes along

Cpilot · Post by **Cpilot** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:02 pm

Version 1 hard codes the essential parameters for each synth with the ability to add more if required but it's getting a bit complicated. I'm working on version 2 which just reads the sysex file and generates the output from there. Makes things simpler but it means sifting through hundreds of parameters (or over 7000 in the case of HD-1) looking for the one you want. On the other hand, you just have to pick the parameter, pick the encoder or button and that's it. Currently I'm just generating .syx files but I'll get round to direct transfer to the BCR. I'll keep both versions going and see how it works out in the end. The biggest problem is deciding on the user interface. Should I draw a pic of the BCR or do a spreadsheet type display or do something like bcfredit. Probably end up with something totally different.

Bryan

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:31 pm

So, curious, if anyone has tried setting up other controllers to operate with the Kronos, teaching sysex through the editor or midi connections. I a thinking of a new controller a QuNexus or QuNeo or one or two of the nano products. I need to go see if they can learn sysex first.

psr21 · Post by **psr21** » Fri May 30, 2014 10:09 pm

Heya cpilot. Any chance you could send me the templates for the bcr2000. Thanks

Niarf · Post by **Niarf** » Sat May 31, 2014 12:58 pm

I would too, I can't figure out how to make it work properly, I had give up for months fo doing somethings else, but now I fired it up again but no success...

Thanx in advance =)