New Native Instruments controllers!

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:43 pm

I'd agree with you if the physical controls were on the device. But with just 8 knobs, its just not going to feel that way.

Indeed, though I own an Arturia 49 note keyboard controller and all of thier synth plugins ( and their analogue lab software), and while the controller is physically excellent, and the synth plugins equally so; even with perhaps 30 physical controllers available, the 'integration' you mention just isn't there; nor can it be - there are too many parameters on each of the synth plugins.

I particularly bought the Arturia controller for the CS80V ( because i also own a cs80) but the factory setup is not great and I've had to manually set it up.

even at that, there are always reliability issues, session specific issues that mean that true seamless, hardware like control is never really there.

the only implementation that seems to offer this level of control is Roland's system 1, because the controller is laden with controls. It is interesting that for the SH101 plug out, that some of the physical controls are actually redundant and switched off, such is the sheer quantity of controls on the hardware device.

i accept your desire on hoping for this with NI, but this device just cannot deliver on that front in my opinion; certainly not for synths such as Maasive, Monark and similar.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:41 pm

Perhaps not, I'd still want to try it though. There's a lot more functions in the Maschine software than there are knobs on the hardware too, but it still feels like a piece of hardware to the extent that I almost never even look at the computer screen.

MoonMusic · Post by **MoonMusic** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:21 am

I don't think they will ever make a keyboard workstation with VST support and is always going to be a closed system....I haven't seen an inkling of evidence anywhere that shows that any of the workstation manufacturers has any intention of ever doing that....That's why I went ahead and got a Muse Research box and haven't looked back....I also like the Kronos for what it does and the Qu4ttro supplements it nicely....moon

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:04 am

MoonMusic wrote:I don't think they will ever make a keyboard workstation with VST support and is always going to be a closed system....I haven't seen an inkling of evidence anywhere that shows that any of the workstation manufacturers has any intention of ever doing that....That's why I went ahead and got a Muse Research box and haven't looked back....I also like the Kronos for what it does and the Qu4ttro supplements it nicely....moon

Eventually it will happen... We just dont know when and who....

As soon as those hardware developers find a way to make money from these VSTs, they will add them...

My best idea so far is and appstore with addapted and supported VSTs, from which the hardware company gets 30% of the sold vsts price...

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:21 am

That already exists with the AKAI KeyStation/SynthStation series. They're not very popular.

Jan1 · Post by **Jan1** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:15 pm

A dedicated NI controller which draws the software out of the computer and which really gives you the feel and immediacy of hardware is something I have been hoping for, but although the Kontrol S is a step in the right direction, the step is not big enough yet.
I wish there were more real-time controls, and watching this demo where you can here the plastic clacking sound of the keys I do not get the impression that it has a high quality keybed, even though the price of the controller is quite steep.

Aside from that, I would prefer at least a piano-sized keybed anyway.
I'm not referring to a hammer-action , but having an extended range of keys is very desirable.

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:23 pm

SanderXpander wrote:That already exists with the AKAI KeyStation/SynthStation series. They're not very popular.

Thats an ipad solution, a toy, and far from a professional system..
I can understand why those are not popular...

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:00 pm

I know, it was mainly a reflection on your statement that a generic controller being able to run interchangeable VSTs from an app store is the ultimate solution. As demonstrated by the SynthStation, other factors are important.
Some of the synths on the iPad sound quite good actually. So what are you missing in these products?

chilly7 · Post by **chilly7** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:40 pm

Jan1 wrote:A dedicated NI controller which draws the software out of the computer and which really gives you the feel and immediacy of hardware is something I have been hoping for, but although the Kontrol S is a step in the right direction, the step is not big enough yet.
I wish there were more real-time controls, and watching this demo where you can here the plastic clacking sound of the keys I do not get the impression that it has a high quality keybed, even though the price of the controller is quite steep.

Aside from that, I would prefer at least a piano-sized keybed anyway.
I'm not referring to a hammer-action , but having an extended range of keys is very desirable.

+1

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:29 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I know, it was mainly a reflection on your statement that a generic controller being able to run interchangeable VSTs from an app store is the ultimate solution. As demonstrated by the SynthStation, other factors are important.
Some of the synths on the iPad sound quite good actually. So what are you missing in these products?

You understood me wrong.....

Lets take kronos for example.... Kronos would have its own appstore, where korg sells "kronos verions" of all wellknown VSTs like alchemy and omnisphere. they would run natively on the Kronos 2 and Korg would get 30% of any sale, VSTs suitable for Kronos would only be available in the Korg appstore...

In this case, the downloaded VSTs would run natively on the hardware of the kronos.. This way, they could allow VSTs running on the new Kronos and still make money from 3rd party software in the same way apple does...

And if you allready own the VST, you would have to pay Korg a fee to get it registered and running on your kronos...

Point is, hardware sellers should not be affraid of software, but try and find a way to incorporate it....

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:05 pm

My point is you don't define the base parameters. Why is the iPad solution no good? It is SSD based and current iPad CPUs are roughly comparable to the Atom. So is it the quality of the controller that you want improved, or the amount of included software or what?

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:16 pm

SanderXpander wrote:My point is you don't define the base parameters. Why is the iPad solution no good? It is SSD based and current iPad CPUs are roughly comparable to the Atom. So is it the quality of the controller that you want improved, or the amount of included software or what?

Because the ipad does not support multi tasking, if you want a mobile device for serious music making have a look at the microsft surface pro 3...

But then i still have the idea we are talking about two totally different things..

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:20 pm

I'm trying to get you to define how they're different exactly. E.g. how about the Novation controller but with audio in/outs and running on a Windows tablet?

Bachus · Post by **Bachus** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:34 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I'm trying to get you to define how they're different exactly. E.g. how about the Novation controller but with audio in/outs and running on a Windows tablet?

Biggest problems stays that there is no integration between the hard and the software.. Espescially the software, because all those VSTs keep feeling as a collection of sepperate modules, and never as that one awesome instrument with everything inside....

But the SL mk2 is one of the better solutions so far.. Lots of controll and great DAW integration.. But all the integration is mostly at the daw and never at the specific VST

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:41 pm

So the NI one really isn't all that strange then. Komplete seems a pretty decent package to work with as a start and while you can't add "any" VST, there's a TON of Kontakt expansions available. Not to mention Reaktor should satisfy a lot of synth and "utility" needs.

My point is you can either have hardware/software integration or a "generic" approach, not both. NI seems well on the way now and they are ideally positioned to accomodate new synths into the system, whether third party or their own.