Finally pulled the trigger!

[GregC]

Both Apple and Amazon still have to deal with customers, returns etc. in Apple's case you can go to a Apple Store if you want to try it, but you can buy completely online if you want. (Same price)

Dealers have physical locations. That means extra handling, staff, real estate, more trucks, more potential for damage, mistakes, storage costs, inventory costs, etc. retail staff need training. The front line is a myth in 2015.

This year I did 3/4 of my Xmas shopping on Amazon. It's the way of the future.

My 8 yr store is on Amazon. I know this large corp well. They know how to take care of buyers but the cost is funded by sellers like myself

[Ottawa58]

Greg, I have no trouble believing you. Giants have a way of overpowering the little guy. True in any supplier relationship.

[GregC]

I did too, I love Amazon.

You happened to compare Korg to 2 of the largest and most profitable major corporations on the planet.

I don't disagree that it would be more beneficial to us customers to buy directly from Korg...but I don't think they have the manpower or infrastructure in place to pull it off.

I happen to be a finance person. Amazon is big, but they are not profitable. They lost $241,000,000 last FY:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AMZN+In ... ent&annual

they mostly operate at a slight loss, tiny profit, every year. Its part of their growth strategy . Investors like their story as reflected by their stock price.

Apple, without a doubt, is immensely profitable.

[Rich Z]

*Off topic for the thread, but somewhat on topic for the immediate discussion, I think*

Just don't buy third party food items from Amazon. If things go sour (literally) you'll find out quickly that Amazon isn't going to be your friend. That "A to Z guarantee" doesn't cover all the letters it says it does. All a seller has to do is to say that they will not accept the return of the unacceptable goods you received and that is that. Tough on you. You are left holding the bag. I used to buy a LOT of stuff through Amazon because I thought they would have my back in issues of that nature. No more. I haven't bought a single thing from them in about 2 years now and just will not. Matter of fact, I have bought items off of Ebay that turned out just being from basement Amazon resellers (the items were shipped to me as gifts) that I just returned to them.

[GregC]

*Off topic for the thread, but somewhat on topic for the immediate discussion, I think*

Just don't buy third party food items from Amazon. If things go sour (literally) you'll find out quickly that Amazon isn't going to be your friend. That "A to Z guarantee" doesn't cover all the letters it says it does. All a seller has to do is to say that they will not accept the return of the unacceptable goods you received and that is that.

I know we are getting far off from Kronos, but I ( as a 3rd party seller) do not offer food items for sale.

Here are items that Can't Be returned to Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/ ... =201077750

Amazon sells directly to buyers as most of us know. Plus amazon has over 2 million independent resellers offering products on their venue. Some of the resellers ship directly from their place of business and others utilize Amazon Fulfillment (warehousing) services which gives the Prime service(to buyers).

[The J-Man]

Actually, based on my experience (i'm retired now), it wouldn't be that hard. Step 1: build and ecommerce module like Apple's, Step 2: sign a logistics fulfillment agreement with a company like Fedex, Step 3: link the ecommerce module to their production control system. Voila! Round the world reach, easy returns and warranty work, and customers that can buy online, customize their orders, and see them as they prgress, with a known delivery date.

Sweetwater and Kraft already have eCommerce - but it is un-lean because they are in the middle of the supply chain. Customers get no visibility. Yamaha would be the natural company to start this because of their size, but their thinking is still in the 1980's.

The theory behind this is incredibly easy, as you've pointed out. I just think that there's a lot more to it when you try to implement it in real life.

Amazon is big, but they are not profitable.....

I feel like an idiot for assuming that Amazon was profitable. I never really looked at their financial reports (obviously).

Ultimately, I think Korg has a distribution model in place that makes sense for them financially. Should they let us buy direct? Absolutely...but like I've said, I don't think they can offer that without incurring additional costs. I could be wrong about all this, and that'd be fine with me too!

I want my Kronos! LOL

[BobTheDog]

241 million dollars loss is a tiny amount compared to the 89 billion dollars in sales.

Once they move from the expansion/removal of competition stage we are all doomed.

[GregC]

241 million dollars loss is a tiny amount compared to the 89 billion dollars in sales.

Once they move from the expansion/removal of competition stage we are all doomed.

i have my own small business but I have to generate large ROI and at least 25% net profit margin for it to make any sense for my effort. By comparison I would never compete directly with them on a SKU since they have no problem selling at break even.

But Amazon is , at least per the financials , generating good cash flow , which funds their aggressive expansion into many markets.

yes, you are correct, they are uber aggressive and aim to tip 'traditional ' marketplaces upside down by grabbing a big share of the 'sales pie'. The have no problem selling at a slight loss per my experience, too.

[Ottawa58]

My point about Amaxon and buying direct got a bit lost. In Canada, specifically, this buying experience for me could have been much better. The Korg retail network here is amateur, stores have little or no information, and the consumer is expected to put a relatively large (in my case $1200) deposit for an item that has no ETA. My comparison to Apple, was mainly to suggest that some online visibility might be a good first step.

My impression, is that those in the states have it a bit better. At least you can deal with stores like Sweetwater and Kraft where people who actually know about the product are helpful. In comparison, in February, I called our two major music stores here in Ottawa, who are Korg dealers, and their staff didn't even know about the new K2's. I knew more than they did.

Buying direct from Korg, with Fedex fulfilling would have been way better in my case. Maybe April?

[GregC]

My point about Amaxon and buying direct got a bit lost. In Canada, specifically, this buying experience for me could have been much better. The Korg retail network here is amateur, stores have little or no information, and the consumer is expected to put a relatively large (in my case $1200) deposit for an item that has no ETA. My comparison to Apple, was mainly to suggest that some online visibility might be a good first step.

My impression, is that those in the states have it a bit better. At least you can deal with stores like Sweetwater and Kraft where people who actually know about the product are helpful. In comparison, in February, I called our two major music stores here in Ottawa, who are Korg dealers, and their staff didn't even know about the new K2's. I knew more than they did.

Buying direct from Korg, with Fedex fulfilling would have been way better in my case. Maybe April?

ok. I worked for Sun Microsystems( bought out by Oracle some yrs ago) for some time as a Project Mgr and dep't( Oracle data base) Mgr for several yrs so while my experience is kind of dated some of the basics are relevant.

There are roughly 3 ways to go for a large organization to have a " Store" on the Internet;

1)quick order capture with a product catalog, email capture, registration, credit card processing, a very friendly customer interface

2)a Storefront that does the above but also connects with the company's internal systems, accounting, warehousing, sales reporting, etc, etc. This is an Expensive implementation and a ' life changer ' for existing large organizations

3) custom data warehouses, home grown internal systems or a world class ERP hooked to the data warehouses. Very expensive and must be thought out while the co is small. Amazon, for example, has a multiple custom data warehouse approach

What you see from Kraft and SW is likely #1. It looks good and gets the job done. But neither retailer can afford 2 or 3. So to connect 1) to the co's internal operation involves a lot of manual ' fetch and carry ' and some automated feeds to other internal systems.

Slight case, Korg is maybe considering 1). But I doubt they are going to upset their 'retail channel ' by going direct to consumers for their keyboards. They just don't strike me as being interested in doing so. It has to make business sense. It has to work well.

I think they offer some accessories on a store plus we know about the sample libs. Some of us have pointed out how poorly the store page works for sample libs. So that is not news.

[BobTheDog]

My point about Amaxon and buying direct got a bit lost. In Canada, specifically, this buying experience for me could have been much better. The Korg retail network here is amateur, stores have little or no information, and the consumer is expected to put a relatively large (in my case $1200) deposit for an item that has no ETA. My comparison to Apple, was mainly to suggest that some online visibility might be a good first step.

My impression, is that those in the states have it a bit better. At least you can deal with stores like Sweetwater and Kraft where people who actually know about the product are helpful. In comparison, in February, I called our two major music stores here in Ottawa, who are Korg dealers, and their staff didn't even know about the new K2's. I knew more than they did.

Buying direct from Korg, with Fedex fulfilling would have been way better in my case. Maybe April?

ok. I worked for Sun Microsystems( bought out by Oracle some yrs ago) for some time as a Project Mgr and dep't( Oracle data base) Mgr for several yrs so while my experience is kind of dated some of the basics are relevant.

There are roughly 3 ways to go for a large organization to have a " Store" on the Internet;

1)quick order capture with a product catalog, email capture, registration, credit card processing, a very friendly customer interface

2)a Storefront that does the above but also connects with the company's internal systems, accounting, warehousing, sales reporting, etc, etc. This is an Expensive implementation and a ' life changer ' for existing large organizations

3) custom data warehouses, home grown internal systems or a world class ERP hooked to the data warehouses. Very expensive and must be thought out while the co is small. Amazon, for example, has a multiple custom data warehouse approach

What you see from Kraft and SW is likely #1. It looks good and gets the job done. But neither retailer can afford 2 or 3. So to connect 1) to the co's internal operation involves a lot of manual ' fetch and carry ' and some automated feeds to other internal systems.

Slight case, Korg is maybe considering 1). But I doubt they are going to upset their 'retail channel ' by going direct to consumers for their keyboards. They just don't strike me as being interested in doing so. It has to make business sense. It has to work well.

I think they offer some accessories on a store plus we know about the sample libs. Some of us have pointed out how poorly the store page works for sample libs. So that is not news.

It would be very interesting if Korg moved towards number 1, but I agree with you this is extremely unlikely. Changing a complex system is not something that is taken lightly.

Interesting for me that you worked for Sun/Oracle, I made my living off those boys for around 10 years from the late 80's. They were good times!

[Ottawa58]

Anyone reading this thread might come to the conclusion that only seniors play the Kronos

My understanding is that Lawrence Welk had a nanopad in his jacket pocket. And a one, and a two .... I will take the accordion part...

[BobTheDog]

Anyone reading this thread might come to the conclusion that only seniors play the Kronos

Well I had forgotten what the thread is actually about, so spot on for me.

[The J-Man]

Well guys, my Kronos-2 88 arrived Friday night. I've been busy as hell all weekend long, and haven't had a lot of time with it...but in the short amount of time I've worked on it I've determined that this thing is amazing.

Here are a few pics of the unboxing/first power-up.

The box arrives.


My "work area".


I love this screen.


Optimus Prime approves.


Now that I have my Kronos, I feel like I can contribute more to this forum!

Hope everyone's had a great weekend!